BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[Clark-Kent]

I'm convinced this movie is the Batman Returns of this generation.

It will be more appreciated years from now....despite some of its flaws.

Could be Ang Lee's Hulk of this generation That seems to be a divided fan base with that film. Some who even grew to like it more over time, and others who just detest it lol.

 

[antoineflemming]

You're overestimating the general publics attachment to these superheroes. I don't think most people would have a problem with a dark superman movie if it was a good movie.

I agree with this. The critics are more beholden to specific interpretations of characters, and that's probably only true for Superman.

 

[Flint Marko]

I agree with this. The critics are more beholden to specific interpretations of characters, and that's probably only true for Superman.

You're painting with an awfully large brush. I think critics just want to see movies that are well-made and thoughtfully crafted. A lot of people, myself included, just find both MoS and BvS to be sloppy, careless film making. I can easily accept what they're going for if it was executed properly.

 

[The Guard]

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

All I know is this time I got to see Bruce Wayne raised up in a cloud of swirling bats...and his silhouette turning into the bat emblem. And there was meaning to that sequence, not only the murder, but the origin elements.

I think it was worth it.

 

[Clark-Kent]

You're painting with an awfully large brush. I think critics just want to see movies that are well-made and thoughtfully crafted. A lot of people, myself included, just find both MoS and BvS to be sloppy, careless film making. I can easily accept what they're going for if it was executed properly.

I find that Snyder is good at setting up a movie, and then it never fully comes together. I end up feeling like "ah the first hour was setup perfect" and then along the way it just doesn't fully tie together.

 

[Flint Marko]

I find that Snyder is good at setting up a movie, and then it never fully comes together. I end up feeling like "ah the first hour was setup perfect" and then along the way it just doesn't fully tie together.

Case in point, the beginning with Affleck witnessing the Battle of Metropolis was great.

 

[Poni_Boy]

You're painting with an awfully large brush. I think critics just want to see movies that are well-made and thoughtfully crafted. A lot of people, myself included, just find both MoS and BvS to be sloppy, careless film making. I can easily accept what they're going for if it was executed properly.

Saw this on Twitter the other day: "If you can't make a good movie then at least make a fun one. BvS was neither good nor fun. So what's the point?"

 

[Clark-Kent]

Case in point, the beginning with Affleck witnessing the Battle of Metropolis was great.

I'll say for BvS the first hour and a half or so was good. I think the moment that Lex has Martha [blackout]kidnapped.[/blackout] and taking Lois to [blackout]the top of the building[/blackout] is where it really lost its way. I felt like they were trying so hard to make the stakes higher for them to fight, that it ended up with some silly choices for Lex to be involved in.

We could take out both those Martha and Lois choices, have him create Doomsday as a government fail safe against Superman that he thinks he can control...and since Batman shined the light we would have still seen the battle. Superman would have showed up because of the light, and they could have fought from all the lead up still. Then with Doomsday having broke out, they come together to defeat it. Simple, and since Lex was working with the government he wouldn't even have needed to be jailed at this point.

Seriously when Superman says that "no one stays good in this world" and even says if Batman doesn't work with him [blackout]he'd need to kill him[/blackout]... and flies off to fight Batman only to have their fight end from the name [blackout]Martha[/blackout] it just didn't work as well to me. They piled on too much towards the end really and it threw off the rhythm.

 

[Flint Marko]

Saw this on Twitter the other day: "If you can't make a good movie then at least make a fun one. BvS was neither good nor fun. So what's the point?"

Well said. And for the record, "fun" in my book doesn't necessarily mean quippy one-liners and light-hearted jokes every minute or so. "Fun" just means I found the material engaging and the characters likable.

I'll say for BvS the first hour and a half or so was good. I think the moment that Lex has Martha [blackout]kidnapped.[/blackout] and taking Lois to [blackout]the top of the building[/blackout] is where it really lost its way. I felt like they were trying so hard to make the stakes higher for them to fight, that it ended up with some silly choices for Lex to be involved in.

We could take out both those Martha and Lois choices, have him create Doomsday as a government fail safe against Superman that he thinks he can control...and since Batman shined the light we would have still seen the battle. Superman would have showed up because of the light, and they could have fought from all the lead up still. Then with Doomsday having broke out, they come together to defeat it. Simple, and since Lex was working with the government he wouldn't even have needed to be jailed at this point.

Seriously when Superman says that "no one stays good in this world" and flies off to fight Batman only to have their fight end from the name [blackout]Martha[/blackout] it just didn't work as well to me. They piled on too much towards the end really and it threw off the rhythm.

It truly does amaze me how many ideas I've seen on this forum that are so much simpler and better than what we got in BvS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Saw this on Twitter the other day: "If you can't make a good movie then at least make a fun one. BvS was neither good nor fun. So what's the point?"

Words to live by.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Saw this on Twitter the other day: "If you can't make a good movie then at least make a fun one. BvS was neither good nor fun. So what's the point?"

If you can't comprehend that "good" and "fun" are subjective when talking about movies, what's the point?

 

[Clark-Kent]

Well said. And for the record, "fun" in my book doesn't necessarily mean quippy one-liners and light-hearted jokes every minute or so. "Fun" just means I found the material engaging and the characters likable.



It truly does amaze me how many ideas I've seen on this forum that are so much simpler and better than what we got in BvS.

Literally Flint, take out those moments with Martha and Lois that are meant to "force the fight" and the film would work much better. This motivation wasn't even needed for them to square off after the great setup they did at beginning of film!!! Superman already had that talk with Batman about the Bat signal, they have different philosophies, etc... That was enough. Superman showed him mercy the first time. They'll square off because Batman was prepared to whoop on him anyways. Omg it almost makes me angry how they piled on unneeded story elements.

The Lex moments and silly kitchen timer, the countdown of Martha to be [blackout]"killed" [/blackout]was just unneeded cliches of heightened stakes added on to the ending. Lex should have been manipulating from his office in first appearance anyways, not getting jailed for getting so involved with every major player character. For him to get jailed right away, rather than just using others makes me feel like Snyder doesn't get what has made the modern take on Lex so great.

Lex could have been working with the government, even a brief scene or two with Waller explaining intent to create a defense mechanism such as project "Doomsday" from him and his scientists after the events of MOS. Doomsday releases from the lab, and trinity comes together.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Literally Flint, take out those moments with Martha and Lois that are meant to "force the fight" and the film would work much better. This motivation wasn't even needed for them to square off after the great setup they did at beginning of film!!! Superman already had that talk with Batman about the Bat signal, they have different philosophies, etc... That was enough. Superman showed him mercy the first time. They'll square off because Batman was prepared to whoop on him anyways. Omg it almost makes me angry how they piled on unneeded story elements.

The Lex moments and silly kitchen timer, the countdown of Martha to be [blackout]"killed" [/blackout]was just unneeded cliches of heightened stakes added on to the ending. Lex should have been manipulating from his office in first appearance anyways, not getting jailed for getting so involved with every major player character. For him to get jailed right away, rather than just using others makes me feel like Snyder doesn't get what has made the modern take on Lex so great.

Lex could have been working with the government, even a brief scene or two with Waller explaining intent to create a defense mechanism such as project "Doomsday" from him and his scientists after the events of MOS. Doomsday releases from the lab, and trinity comes together.

The characters don't differ enough for their "battle". The fact that Superman is aggressive and engages Batman at all is a problem.

 

[Kobra]

Saw this on Twitter the other day: "If you can't make a good movie then at least make a fun one. BvS was neither good nor fun. So what's the point?"

A lot of people still liked the movie, you know? It was not the success it should have been, but let's not act like the movie has absolutely no value to anyone. I know several people who absolutely loved the movie. I'm pretty sure that for them the movie wasn't pointless, since they had a great time watching it.

 

[Clark-Kent]

The characters don't differ enough for their "battle". The fact that Superman is aggressive and engages Batman at all is a problem.

I know where you are going with that, but I'm talking in context of how to make THIS film work better.

 

[Poni_Boy]

A lot of people still liked the movie, you know? It was not the success it should have been, but let's not act like the movie has absolutely no value to anyone. I know several people who absolutely loved the movie. I'm pretty sure that for them the movie wasn't pointless, since they had a great time watching it.

I know people who like Uwe Boll movies. That's not what that statement was referring to. It's a macro observation about movie making in general.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

The characters don't differ enough for their "battle". The fact that Superman is aggressive and engages Batman at all is a problem.

Yep. It's been said before but BvS isn't about "Black and Blue", it's about "Black and a kinda Gray color."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I know where you are going with that, but I'm talking in context of how to make THIS film work better.

I understand that and your point. My problem though is you can't fix it without fixing the characters, and I don't think taking out that scene does that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yep. It's been said before but BvS isn't about "Black and Blue", it's about "Black and a kinda Gray color."

Batman v. Superman: Shades of Grey

 

[Clark-Kent]

I understand that and your point. My problem though is you can't fix it without fixing the characters, and I don't think taking out that scene does that.

I think it was BvS (the SHH member not the movie lol) that mentioned what a mistake it was to have Superman say to the effect that if Batman doesn't help him get Martha back he'll have to [blackout]kill him.[/blackout] Superman saying "No one stays good in this world" and flying off really made me smh. I'm not hating on every aspect of the film, but this is a blatant mistake that some fans really want to stretch for excuses on. It was a cringe worthy moment

 

[Kobra]

I know people who like Uwe Boll movies. That's not what that statement was referring to. It's a macro observation about movie making in general.

All you do is talk about the movie like if it was factually bad. Yes, it's not a crowd pleaser. You don't like it, fine. Let's not pretend you're the majority.

The thing about people who dislike something is that they're loud. They make a lot of noise and they will make it sound like their opinion is the prevalent one. So, before talking about this like it was the most horrendous thing ever, remember that a lot of people still liked it. So there must be some value to it. That being said, i don't think your "macro observation" applies very well to this movie.

 

[Tony Stark]

A lot of people still liked the movie, you know? It was not the success it should have been, but let's not act like the movie has absolutely no value to anyone. I know several people who absolutely loved the movie. I'm pretty sure that for them the movie wasn't pointless, since they had a great time watching it.

I get this, but you can't make a $250 million dollar movie that appeals to a segmented portion of your target audience. It's not that the film has no value to anyone, it's that it has little value to people that are outside of the hardcore fanbase.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think it was BvS (the SHH member not the movie lol) that mentioned what a mistake it was to have Superman say to the effect that if Batman doesn't help him get Martha back he'll have to [blackout]kill him.[/blackout] Superman saying "No one stays good in this world" and flying off really made me smh. I'm not hating on every aspect of the film, but this is a blatant mistake that some fans really want to stretch for excuses on. It was a cringe worthy moment

I hated that moment. I mean he was at least sad, but Superman shouldn't have said that. Especially after MoS.

It also bothered me that because of how they set up the fight, Superman being aggressive makes zero sense. Like Clark just needs to hold Batman in place and talk to him. He doesn't need to throw him through a damn building or push him. It just makes him seem so stupid.

 

[NeoRanger]

Yeah, I've only read Volume 1, but I do agree the art was nice, and one of the only redeeming factors. I'll have to give Vol. 2 a shot some day.

Do read the rest, I was very much disappointed with Earth One after reading the first volume, but the story works better once read in its entirety.

 

[Poni_Boy]

All you do is talk about the movie like if it was factually bad. Yes, it's not a crowd pleaser. You don't like it, fine. Let's not pretend you're the majority.

The thing about people who dislike something is that they're loud. They make a lot of noise and they will make it sound like their opinion is the prevalent one. So, before talking about this like it was the most horrendous thing ever, remember that a lot of people still liked it. So there must be some value to it. That being said, i don't think your "macro observation" applies very well to this movie.

Did you miss the part where I said "I saw this on Twitter"? It wasn't my observation chief