BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[Kobra]

They're not as complex as you're making them out to be. It's such an exaggerated explanation. Complexity requires layers. This movie merely paints them with the same moody tone MoS had. That's the difference and that is what a large portion of general audiences are not liking. They're looking to feel good and escape.

All the main characters felt layered to me.

 

[JtheDreamer]

All the main characters felt layered to me.

Why? Because for the 10,000th time Batman was shown agonizing about his parent's death and his fear of bats? That's not layered or nuanced.

 

[Flint Marko]

It would be deceptive to say the DCEU is straight forward, and like my response above, that's probably Snyder's mistake, that the GA would not necessarily enjoy dealing with a puzzle of a movie, after being conditioned to MCU's feed-it-to-your-face format.

If by "feed-it-to-your-face format" you mean "coherent", then yeah, BvS could've used some of that.

All the main characters felt layered to me.

How?

 

[Jaxon]

Why? Because for the 10,000th time Batman was shown agonizing about his parent's death and his fear of bats? That's not layered or nuanced.

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

 

[Cats]

Why? Because for the 10,000th time Batman was shown agonizing about his parent's death and his fear of bats? That's not layered or nuanced.

lol didn't you even notice that just in that first scene, Bruce's nightmare of the bats has already changed? The bats no longer make him fearful. Rather they lift him off the ground, as though anointing him into his true potential of being the Batman. If the change in that first scene didn't even occur to you then I assume you were asleep for most of the movie.

 

[souperman]

Why? Because for the 10,000th time Batman was shown agonizing about his parent's death and his fear of bats? That's not layered or nuanced.

It is sort of a problem that they needed to address. If it wasn't shown, then some may say there was not motivation... We would need to just accept that he is this Batman figure.

Most re-tellings and reboots need to touch on the origins simply because they can't assume everyone already knows...

Snyder's is actually being used throughout the film and is mirrored and echoed later on... I thought effectively.

 

[Kobra]

Why? Because for the 10,000th time Batman was shown agonizing about his parent's death and his fear of bats? That's not layered or nuanced.

How?

Because i could see in his character a man completely absorbed by rage and frustration, often cruel and inconsiderate towards others, but at the same time compassionate enough to be willing to sacrifice his life in order to do something he thinks would protect humanity. To me that's a layered character. And i can see even more in him, but i don't think it's worth wasting my time talking about it with people who have already made up their minds.

 

[souperman]

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

well, how many times was it told and eluded to in the comics, animated series , graphic novels etc.?

It's a new telling that requires a bit of backstory for the less informed.

Q: was it ever addressed in the TV show? Curious if there was a backstory?

And where is Aunt Harriet in BvS ?

 

[Cats]

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

To add to this, you can't really have Batman in a movie without outlining his motivation. Because there's no other good reason a man with a comfortable life would put on a cape and cowl night after night, risking his life in the slums when he has 0 superpowers, and isn't the sort of person gunning to be a good role model for kids. It is the essence of what made him who he is, and is repeated over and over in the comics but people fully understand why it must be done. The day that Bruce Wayne stops being haunted by his parents murder is the day he completely disconnects with his purpose, and personally, I don't see that happening.

 

[Boom]

Doomsday Jimmy is not my thing.
That is one bit from the comic that needs to stay far FAR away from any adaption.

Doomsday Jimmy is everything.

 

[akfj]

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

Four, Batman Forever showed it, too.

 

[Supernova]

I will say DC has some balls killing off its main hero 2 movies in. I liked that ending because it shows these heroes can die in big battles when times get desperate. Not taking shots but theres no way in hell marvel would that in any of there movies.

 

[Aquafinn90]

To add to this, you can't really have Batman in a movie without outlining his motivation. Because there's no other good reason a man with a comfortable life would put on a cape and cowl night after night, risking his life in the slums when he has 0 superpowers, and isn't the sort of person gunning to be a good role model for kids. It is the essence of what made him who he is, and is repeated over and over in the comics but people fully understand why it must be done. The day that Bruce Wayne stops being haunted by his parents murder is the day he completely disconnects with his purpose, and personally, I don't see that happening.

Yeah I can't believe this is a complaint people have. Besides, it was in the opening credits, it's not like they spent and absurd amount of time on it.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Because i could see in his character a man completely absorbed by rage and frustration, often cruel and inconsiderate towards others, but at the same time compassionate enough to be willing to sacrifice his life in order to do something he thinks would protect humanity. To me that's a layered character. And i can see even more in him, but i don't think it's worth wasting my time talking about it with people who have already made up their minds.

That's not layered. That's just painfully transparent.

 

[Supernova]

Alright try and tell me this, is this not only 3rd time we've seen the Batman parents death in 30 years?

1989
2005
2016

Is that really too much?

Dear god no more origins please, even the most comicbook jaded person knows batmans backstory.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Four, Batman Forever showed it, too.

And Gotham.

 

[Kane52630]

And the Arkham games.

 

[Kane52630]

And of course in almost every comic.

 

[Kobra]

That's not layered. That's just painfully transparent.

That's your opinion. I don't share it.

 

[Supernova]

Pretty much the most fleshed out backstory and origin in hollywood history

 

[JtheDreamer]

That's your opinion. I don't share it.

Layered, character-driven films are movies like "Adaptation(2002)" or "Fight Club (1999)".

 

[Kobra]

Layered, character-driven films are movies like "Adaptation(2002)" or "Fight Club (1999)".

Nobody is debating whether or not BvS is a character driven film. It isn't. I'm simply telling you that i find the characters to be layered. At least, most of them. What didn't you understand from this? I, Kobra, found Bruce Wayne/Batman to be layered.

 

[parkerpete]

I will say DC has some balls killing off its main hero 2 movies in. I liked that ending because it shows these heroes can die in big battles when times get desperate. Not taking shots but theres no way in hell marvel would that in any of there movies.

This is a joke, right?

1. He ain't dead, the last shot of the movie confirms it, for Pete's sake

2. You really ARE joking, right? No spoilers, but uh, we'll see you back here May 6.

 

[jasontodd]

Nobody is debating whether or not BvS is a character driven film. It isn't. I'm simply telling you that i find the characters to be layered. At least, most of them. What didn't you understand from this? I, Kobra, found Bruce Wayne/Batman to be layered.

I would love to see some superior examples presented of characters that are layered and not transparent within the Superhero film genre. Since we are as per usual taking to crucifying Batman V Superman again.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I would love to see some superior examples presented of characters that are layered and not transparent within the Superhero film genre. Since we are as per usual taking to crucifying Batman V Superman again.

Honestly, it doesn't really exist within' this genre - especially when half of the movies' responsibilities are to capture action beats and visually bringing to life comic book panels.

That inevitably leaves less time to access truly cerebral qualities. The Watchmen was the closest thing and look how much most of the GA hated it. Snyder was lazy and tried to port the guts of that film over to BvS. It felt borrowed and cheap. Hell the whole "Who is the super man and what does he mean to us" stuff was straight from Dr. Manhattan.