BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[C. Lee]

I'm here.

 

[Deserana]

Tell me this is not real.

I need you to tell me that please.

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazi...with-zack-snyder-charles-roven-deborah-snyder

5:55

 

[Poni_Boy]

seems like the way it's going

Which is fine. I know someone who LOVES the in your face Christ comparisons. Just like I know someone who LOVES the fight scenes in BvS and doesn't care about anything else, he just wants to see these dudes fight like Wrestlemania. The problem with something as impactful and expensive as BvS is that they can't just please small, segmented groups of people and hope to win it big. Gotta aim for what the masses want first and foremost. Or just make Superman movies that cost under $100 mil.

 

[souperman]

What I hope happens in the beginning of JL:

Spoiler

Ma Kent goes to put flowers on Clark's grave: Ground exposed-coffin blown apart. She calls Lois.

News reports: Kryptonian ship mysteriously disappears from city center during the night.

News report: World Engine disappears from Indian Ocean...

See ship in Arctic and Clark montage getting educated by the ship like LEX and the little robots doing repairs and then... A new suit emerges from the Kryptocloset.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Why don't people realize that Superman isn't Space Jesus.

Superman's story is more Space Moses then Space Jesus.

As someone of a faith (along with being a film fan) making a character Jesus like feels wrong because it could make the character unrelatable. Can anyone really relate to Jesus? I mean as a Catholic boy (like Daredevil) we want to be as good as Jesus was but Jesus was born without original sin. Jesus never gave into temptation. His struggle for that may seem interesting but still using Jesus as an influence feels wrong you know. We look up to him and want to be as good as he was but can any of else relate to him really? Doesn't help the character. It's very hard to make a character Jesus like and work. The best time I've seen it work was Green Mile with John Coffey.

Superman wasn't born to be special. But still Superman is really a human with powers. Clark thinks of himself as human and not alien despite being alien.

 

[Poni_Boy]

What I hope happens in the beginning of JL:

Spoiler

Ma Kent goes to put flowers on Clark's grave: Ground exposed-coffin blown apart. She calls Lois.

News reports: Kryptonian ship mysteriously disappears from city center during the night.

News report: World Engine disappears from Indian Ocean...

See ship in Arctic and Clark montage getting educated by the ship like LEX and the little robots doing repairs and then... A new suit emerges from the Kryptocloset.

I like it. But I'd put the stuff in space, not the Arctic. Gotta fit with this uber realistic environment of drones and such.

 

[Rowsdower!]

What I hope happens in the beginning of JL:

Spoiler

Ma Kent goes to put flowers on Clark's grave: Ground exposed-coffin blown apart. She calls Lois.

News reports: Kryptonian ship mysteriously disappears from city center during the night.

News report: World Engine disappears from Indian Ocean...

See ship in Arctic and Clark montage getting educated by the ship like LEX and the little robots doing repairs and then... A new suit emerges from the Kryptocloset.

What WILL happen at the beginning of JL:

Batman, plus more Batman, with a side of Batman.

 

[javonstokess]

Question, I'm relatively new to this, but what's the point of having a blog to discuss things if it's so heavily moderated?

Just seems a bit heavy handed to me.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Why don't people realize that Superman isn't Space Jesus.

Superman's story is more Space Moses then Space Jesus.

As someone of a faith (along with being a film fan) making a character Jesus like feels wrong because it could make the character unrelatable. Can anyone really relate to Jesus? I mean as a Catholic boy (like Daredevil) we want to be as good as Jesus was but Jesus was born without original sin. Jesus never gave into temptation. His struggle for that may seem interesting but still using Jesus as an influence feels wrong you know. We look up to him and want to be as good as he was but can any of else relate to him really? Doesn't help the character. It's very hard to make a character Jesus like and work. The best time I've seen it work was Green Mile with John Coffey.

Superman wasn't born to be special. But still Superman is really a human with powers. Clark thinks of himself as human and not alien despite being alien.

Agree. Which is why I think Snyder and Co don't understand the character at a conceptual level. Superman isn't Dr. Manhattan. He's not a parable of "what if god lived among us"

 

[souperman]

Which is fine. I know someone who LOVES the in your face Christ comparisons. Just like I know someone who LOVES the fight scenes in BvS and doesn't care about anything else, he just wants to see these dudes fight like Wrestlemania. The problem with something as impactful and expensive as BvS is that they can't just please small, segmented groups of people and hope to win it big. Gotta aim for what the masses want first and foremost. Or just make Superman movies that cost under $100 mil.

I think the Christ comparisons were more obvious in MOS. BvS is continuing them but maybe a little more subtle.

I don't mind because I take it as part of the "ancient aliens" type of comparison like Star Gate. Powerful beings "wrongly" worshiped as divinity.

It can be a bit ham fisted, but even so...some still miss the message.

 

[souperman]

I like it. But I'd put the stuff in space, not the Arctic. Gotta fit with this uber realistic environment of drones and such.

true... but then Lex can't walk up to the arctic and sneak back in and steal the crystals...

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I do like Batfleck's performance. Shame what he had to work with.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Agree. Which is why I think Snyder and Co don't understand the character at a conceptual level. Superman isn't Dr. Manhattan. He's not a parable of "what if god lived among us"

Yea. Superman is really just normal. It's why in a way he's not as popular as Batman lol. He lives just like how we do. He was raised by humans, taught by humans, were friends with humans, has feelings for female humans, played with humans, works with humans, pays taxes with humans lol, eats with humans, talks with humans. You get the point.

People think Superman is unrelatable because of his powers but that has nothing to do with his character. It's Superman's character that makes him relatable. If you get that right then you get Superman. It's why Superman's the most human superhero. His character is that of one of us but he has powers.

 

[KidwiththeGold]

Here's a thought I had to help humanize and add a little levity to the scene:

Spoiler

WW just saved Bats from Doomsday's blast...Superman slams Doomsday into the gas tanks and lands in front of Batman.

In the film S says "did you find the spear"

Add in:

S: My Mother?
B: Safe...
S: thank you. Did you find the Spear?
B: I've been a little busy...
WW: What spear?
B: It's Kryptonian, it should kill the creature.
WW: Are you sure it will work.?
S: He almost killed me with it.
WW: You tried to kill him?
B: It's a long story....
B to S:you're never gonna let that go are you.?

Spoiler

He already knew she was safe by the phone call when Supes was with Luther, when Batman said I rather do the breaking in person when Lex answered the phone

 

[souperman]

Why don't people realize that Superman isn't Space Jesus.

Superman's story is more Space Moses then Space Jesus.

As someone of a faith (along with being a film fan) making a character Jesus like feels wrong because it could make the character unrelatable. Can anyone really relate to Jesus? I mean as a Catholic boy (like Daredevil) we want to be as good as Jesus was but Jesus was born without original sin. Jesus never gave into temptation. His struggle for that may seem interesting but still using Jesus as an influence feels wrong you know. We look up to him and want to be as good as he was but can any of else relate to him really? Doesn't help the character. It's very hard to make a character Jesus like and work. The best time I've seen it work was Green Mile with John Coffey.

Superman wasn't born to be special. But still Superman is really a human with powers. Clark thinks of himself as human and not alien despite being alien.

I think this is the point he is making. He is NOT space Jesus... He IS an alien among us. The Public are SEEING him as their new Savior and Clark is uncomfortable with this but doesn't yet know how to help and not destroy peoples trust...not faith. "Are YOU the king of the Jews? "It is YOU that say I am".

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

http://comicbook.com/2016/04/05/zack-snyder-confirms-standalone-superman-movies-still-planned/

Snyder says solo Superman film is a possibility if there is a good script and he'd do it.

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

http://comicbook.com/2016/04/05/zack-snyder-confirms-standalone-superman-movies-still-planned/

Snyder says solo Superman film is a possibility if there is a good script and he'd do it.

I'd rather have no Superman film if he's the one doing it.

 

[Kobra]

TDK came out 4 years before the Avengers, without 3D. That shows the ticket power of TDK. It did a million with 2D, before there were many million dollar films.

This a clear Occam razor situation. Because not one thing you have written explains how such a movie can open so big with those reviews, and then fall off a cliff so bad. If they didn't like Ben or Superman or MoS, they wouldn't have shown up opening weekend. It shows a clear appetite, which this movie did not fulfill in the majority of those that saw it. The multiplier is going to be horrendous, not just state side, but OS as well.

The movie opened on a lot of markets and a lot of people had already bought tickets.

Let me ask you something: Do you have any idea how many people didn't go watch the movie simply because of the horrible critic score and all the bad buzz around it? I don't. But unless you do, it's impossible to fully understand why the movie truly underperformed. Was it because of just one thing? Or maybe several things? You're asking me a question that nobody here can really answer, and then you come up with your own simplistic, uninformed conclusions and try to pass them as a fact, when in reality, they're nothing more than pure speculation.

It's an horrible movie, it's too dark, it's no fun, it has no humour. With such hardcore negativity floating around just a few days before the opening, it's actually impressive that the movie made as much as it did.

The reality is that we don't have all the answers to why a movie underperforms. You can only speculate. Look at Batman Begins. Yeah, it came after Batman&Robin, which probably hurt it, but still, it's a Batman movie, and it got pretty good reviews and very solid WOM. So why didn't it make a lot more than that? Who knows?! But you can easily speculate about a lot of factors, such as the fact that the movie didn't appeal to such a wide range of people as something like Spider-man, which is a lot more light, a lot more family friendly, a lot more humorous.

If you wanna claim that the majority of people really don't like this movie, you gotta come up with more relevant data. BO is no indicator of the percentage of people who liked the movie. Some movies received horrible reviews and still make a lot of money. Some movies receive great reviews and make no money. You gotta come up with a better explanation.

 

[souperman]

Spoiler

He already knew she was safe by the phone call when Supes was with Luther, when Batman said I rather do the breaking in person when Lex answered the phone

true... forgot that part.

Cut that and add mine... it's better.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Not if he's the one doing it.

Ah well at this point, if Superman gets screen time we should be thankful.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

What I hope happens in the beginning of JL:

Spoiler

Ma Kent goes to put flowers on Clark's grave: Ground exposed-coffin blown apart. She calls Lois.

News reports: Kryptonian ship mysteriously disappears from city center during the night.

News report: World Engine disappears from Indian Ocean...

See ship in Arctic and Clark montage getting educated by the ship like LEX and the little robots doing repairs and then... A new suit emerges from the Kryptocloset.

Or...

Spoiler

Movie opens in the midst of the big battle between Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Doomsday. Superman says his goodbye to Lois, takes off with the kryptonite spear, flies into Doomsday, gets stabbed and...

...wakes up screaming aboard the orbiting JLA satellite (created from scavenged parts of the WE and Kryptonian ship). Batman (Afflek) ,cowl pulled back, pokes his head into the room.

B: "Everything OK Clark?"

S: "Yeah...I think so...just a nightmare."

B: (enters, carrying two cups of coffee) "Yeah I get those two. Remember anything?"

S: (takes coffee) "Not much. Just images, like a badly edited movie. You and me fighting. Zod again except he's this giant monster. And something about a jar of pee..."

B: "A jar of pee?"

S: "Yeah."

B: "OK, well, I'm just gonna take my coffee out here" (motions toward door). Walks out muttering "aliens are weird."

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Ah well at this point, if Superman gets screen time we should be thankful.

Not in this day and age of comic book films. I expect quality.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Not in this day and age of comic book films. I expect quality.

As do I but it seems the people in control can't seem to get Superman right.

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

As do I but it seems the people in control can't seem to get Superman right.

Then they shouldn't do him at all until they figure out how.

 

[KidwiththeGold]

true... forgot that part.

Cut that and add mine... it's better.

LMAO well that scene sets things in motion , but I get ya