BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[parkerpete]

'People just don't like dark movies'.

The Dark Knight was pretty popular. So popular, in fact, that WB decided to use it as a template for the tone of their entire DC slate.

'It was made for fans, it's not a compromised vision'.

Seems like it was plenty compromised, considering the movie ground to a halt constantly to be a commercial for other movies.

'There can be different interpretations of these characters. You guys don't like being challenged.'

I show up to a movie about Superman, then I'm expecting to see Superman. If he kills someone, well that's challenging. But if the movie KNOWS how much that breaks with the tradition of the character, and lends real weight to the moment, and uses it to tell a thematically powerful story that advances the character or shows them in a new light, then I can live with it. I could live with a Cronenbergian Fantastic Four if the movie had been more compelling, with better characters and smarter writing. I can't live with a movie that just has Superman scowling and Batman casually murdering people just because he's trying to steal Kryptonite just to murder a superbeing who he's never even tried speaking with. Those may be interpretations of the characters, sure. But as characters, they seem like very stupid people who behave in arbitrary ways so things that the script demands happen can happen. So if that's your Batman, fine. Then I'm no longer a fan of this Batman.

'They are doing something different from Marvel.'

Seems like they're trying to copy Marvel's business model, with less planning, less well-written characters, and a comically over-the-top dark tone. Also, you don't get points for originality when your big innovation is 'we're going to make terrible movies that please almost no one, instead of well-constructed popular movies.'

'But it IS a story about Batman not killing. He learns from Superman's sacrifice.'

Superman 'sacrifices' himself by glumly and stupidly impaling himself when there was another meta human RIGHT THERE who could have done the job, without being hindered by Kryptonite. Batman is 'redeemed' because he murdered a bunch of people and then we don't see him murder anybody in the last 30 minutes of the movie. Good to know! We should let all the murderers out of prison. After all, they haven't murdered anyone RECENTLY so we can assume they're 'redeemed'.

Also, there was another superhero movie a few years back, also starring Ben Affleck, that depicted a superhero killing people and then reforming his methods, except it was actually better explained in that movie. Also those people spoke of a magical Director's Cut that proved all the detractors wrong.

That movie was Daredevil, and all you 'B v S' defenders remind me A LOT of the people who were fans of that film.

 

[Lucellit]

I read a local tabloid, there's a BvS poster and review.
This review spoiled right in its first paragraph why Bat and Supes fight. I don't remember if it mentioned WW (though it has Trinity image there).

They love Jesse because he reminded them of how manic Ledger Joker can be (not necessarily said this Lex is the same as Joker though) and they acknowledged that internet was crazily negative when Affleck was cast (including the 'Nooooooooooooooo!' line).
But it did not mentioned how they think Affleck performance was. However, this article said Batfleck look fat and short, 'maybe because of the costume'.

This review also did not understand why BvS convinced people that it needed three superheroes to fight Doomsday. Yeah, for casual GA in some countries, Doomsday did not has any significant meaning

Spoiler

or what he was famous for.

Verdict? This movie is quite good to watch before summer movie times.

Superman

Spoiler

'sacrifices' himself by glumly and stupidly impaling himself

when there was another meta human RIGHT THERE who could have done the job, without being hindered by Kryptonite.

If my memory serves me right, WW was there but

Spoiler

she was restraining Doomsday with her lasso. That's a right opportunity to attack. Supes stabbed Doomsday while Doomsday was restrained, but Doomsday struggled and cause the platform WW put her feet against collapse. This caused Doomsday able to break free then grab Supes and stab him back.

Also, I think that's not Supes' character to make / ask somebody else to do the dangerous things instead of him. He was always naively (or, stupidly) heroic.

 

[Logan0327]

You're right. The massive weekend drops prove that.

harry potter and the deathly hallows part 2 had a 72% drop in 2nd weekend and has a 96% on Rt

 

[Jaxon]

harry potter and the deathly hallows part 2 had a 72% drop in 2nd weekend and has a 96% on Rt

Facts, scourgè of the internet forum

 

[Lucellit]

harry potter and the deathly hallows part 2 had a 72% drop in 2nd weekend and has a 96% on Rt

Indeed, BO is unpredictable and includes many factors.

Regarding BvS BO, it is disheartening but if we compare BvS with some notable WB bombs last year, BvS made much more in less than 10 days. Pan and Jupiter Ascending are either completely bomb (BO is lesser than its budget) or earned some million dollars profit. While BvS perhaps not a leap, but a nice step up regardless.

Both MoS and BvS bring money to WB. MoS blu-ray alone gave WB more than 100 million. Now, people are still talking about upcoming BvS ultimate cut. DCEU in general is still a very promising franchise.

 

[Sleiek]

I don't buy the "majority didn't like it" for one second. Majority of the audience in my showing applauded in the end.

I have seen many polls online where the majority atleast enjoyed it if not loved it.

Take Cinemascore for example with an average rating of B. But people forget to mention that those under the age of 18 gave it A- and many parents recommend the movie.

 

[parkerpete]

I don't buy the "majority didn't like it" for one second. Majority of the audience in my showing applauded in the end.

I have seen many polls online where the majority atleast enjoyed it if not loved it.

Take Cinemascore for example with an average rating of B. But people forget to mention that those under the age of 18 gave it A- and many parents recommend the movie.

'Many polls online.' OK, I'm sure those are reliable sources!

'B Cinemascore'. Congratulations, your movie has the same score as Green Lantern and Catwoman. The bad news, it doesn't score quite as well as Spider-Man 3.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't buy the "majority didn't like it" for one second. Majority of the audience in my showing applauded in the end.

I have seen many polls online where the majority atleast enjoyed it if not loved it.

Take Cinemascore for example with an average rating of B. But people forget to mention that those under the age of 18 gave it A- and many parents recommend the movie.

Then were are the ticket sales to back this up? Because there are reports of a 77% Monday drop to 3.1m. If people are enjoying this, where is the money?

TDK was 8 years ago, with no 3D. BvS isn't going to get close to it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And as great as TDK was, it still didn't make as much money as The Avengers...

TFA as a lot more humour in it, so does the Deadpool, which also used sex, dirty jokes and clever marketing to lure people in.

No, i won't stop with the "crowd pleaser" stuff. A movie that costs over 400 million dollars needs to be a crowd pleaser in order to make great profit, most of the time.

Your vision of the whole issue is too simplistic. "It didn't make as much money as it was supposed to, so that means the majority didn't like it". No, it doesn't mean that. It means the percentage of people who liked it or simply wanted to see it wasn't as big as it needed to be. I don't know how you equal that to "the majority didn't like it".

Like i said before, there are many other factors that could easily be taken into consideration. This movie doesn't have the same mass appeal of something like Star Wars. It barely has any humour in it, it's the sequel of a movie who wasn't that well received, it deals with a Superman that doesn't click very well with the masses, it has a Batman portrayed by Ben Affleck, an actor SOOO many people dislike. Also, critics score certainly didn't help one bit.

There are many variables that can influence the BO's results. Pretending there's only one doesn't help your case.

TDK came out 4 years before the Avengers, without 3D. That shows the ticket power of TDK. It did a million with 2D, before there were many million dollar films.

This a clear Occam razor situation. Because not one thing you have written explains how such a movie can open so big with those reviews, and then fall off a cliff so bad. If they didn't like Ben or Superman or MoS, they wouldn't have shown up opening weekend. It shows a clear appetite, which this movie did not fulfill in the majority of those that saw it. The multiplier is going to be horrendous, not just state side, but OS as well.

 

[Corko]

I don't think BvS is a child friendly movie just by how dark and adult its themes are. One of the biggest openings of all time is bound to have a big drop off. I know people that haven't seen it yet that are going in this week. Plus it seems to be getting some love online and I've heard people discussing it in real life. Seems to be doing pretty well given the circumstances.

 

[Corko]

Also for people complaining about the Wayne murders being shown for 5 seconds one of my young cousins I went with had no idea of Batman's backstory.

 

[Reek]

i loved the Wayne scenes lol

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also for people complaining about the Wayne murders being shown for 5 seconds one of my young cousins I went with had no idea of Batman's backstory.

5 seconds in real time. In Zach Snyder slow-mo, that is 20 minutes.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Of course Snyder had to go and make it so that Thomas Wayne becomes the aggressor and stupidly tries to punch the mugger.

Only Snyder could make us feel sorry for the mugger in the Wayne murders.

That takes a special kind of stupid.

 

[Reek]

Gianakin? is that you?

 

[Gianakin_]

This Ultra Nolanite is a sexy motherf**ker. I like him.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

'Many polls online.' OK, I'm sure those are reliable sources!

'B Cinemascore'. Congratulations, your movie has the same score as Green Lantern and Catwoman. The bad news, it doesn't score quite as well as Spider-Man 3.

"facts. scourge of the internet forum"

 

[Reek]

SW Prequels Defender

 

[Lucellit]

Of course Snyder had to go and make it so that Thomas Wayne becomes the aggressor and stupidly tries to punch the mugger.

Only Snyder could make us feel sorry for the mugger in the Wayne murders.

That takes a special kind of stupid.

Actually that was adapted directly from panels of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns though.

PS: I'm on a phone, I'm sorry I cannot provide the page.

Edit: Based on other member reaction, apparently it was a joke/ sarkasm? I'm terribly sorry.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Of course Snyder had to go and make it so that Thomas Wayne becomes the aggressor and stupidly tries to punch the mugger.

Only Snyder could make us feel sorry for the mugger in the Wayne murders.

That takes a special kind of stupid.

Seriously. He takes visual elements directly from certain comics without delving into why the context may or may not be good to include in THIS movie. Style over substance to the nth degree.

 

[Gianakin_]

SW Prequels Defender

Hitler

 

[king666]

I wonder how the people at DC Comics (not WB) are reacting to all of this? I mean, the whole brand kinda depends on the movies. If this keeps going on (divisive / poorly received movies) it's gonna hurt the brand. And Marvel is getting bigger by the hour.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Actually that was adapted directly from panels of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns though.

PS: I'm on a phone, I'm sorry I cannot provide the page.

Edit: Based oh other members, apparently it was a jokw/ sarkasm? I'm terribly sorry.

It was stupid. If you're gonna make a movie like this know what to adapt and what NOT to adapt.

99.5 percent of the people that watched this film have not read or give a **** about Frank Millers TDKR. But I bet a lot of them think "well that was a stupid thing to do" of course you got shot.

You have to realize how much more impactful it would have been had Thomas just worked with the mugger as much as possible and still got shot. Or the mugger points the gun at Bruce or Martha and Thomas shields them and gets shot.

It's like when they made this movie they simply did not think, not even for a second. "Frank Miller did it so it must be the right thing to do"

The hundreds of people that worked on this movie, not one of them went,"Hey, y'know what would work better?"

For me to fully buy into a mans journey and path to becoming Batman and neverending pain he feels over the loss of his parents I can't be thinking that that man should actually be blaming his father for his reckless stupidity.

Congrats Snyder, you made a movie where 0.5 percent of the viewers will go "Wow, thats soo Millerverse" and 99.5 percent will just SMH.

You're the absolute worst!

 

[Gianakin_]

You have to realize how much more impactful it would have been had Thomas just worked with the mugger as much as possible and still got shot.

Aka Batman Begins.

Also, and it's been a long time since I read TKDRt, if it really happened like that in the comics then it's stupid.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Seriously. He takes visual elements directly from certain comics without delving into why the context may or may not be good to include in THIS movie. Style over substance to the nth degree.

Exactly

Aka Batman Begins.

Also, and it's been a long time since I read TKDRt, if it really happened like that in the comics then it's stupid.

Yup, and I rather they copy the Wayne murders from Batman Begins frame by frame and make sense than go with what they went and end up looking stupid.

It's like he can't help himself.