BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - Part 306

[Bagide]

A tv station at home is showing the UE. On free to air

 

[TheRedWraith]

[YT]watch?v=RslcETyE2ec[/YT]

Did anyone else notice that around 6:26 he calls her Vicki meaning we may have gotten a vicki vale in BvS, although I am sure if they want to use her in the batman she is such a minor thing that it could be recast.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I wish they had released this from the get-go.

 

[Shadow Moses]

You guys think Zack might be boo'd on stage tomorrow?

 

[flickchick85]

You guys think Zack might be boo'd on stage tomorrow?

No.

 

[Sleiek]

Hope you are right. It only takes one guy.

 

[flickchick85]

Hope you are right. It only takes one guy.

One guy in a sea of 6500? Nah. It would take a small army of people devoted enough to camp out 9 hours in line just to boo someone. Highly unlikely, imo.

 

[Sleiek]

It only takes one guy at the front

But seriously, I am inclined to believe what you are saying but...

 

[RadioSha]

lol are people still hanging out here?

 

[souperman]

One guy in a sea of 6500? Nah. It would take a small army of people devoted enough to camp out 9 hours in line just to boo someone. Highly unlikely, imo.

I would check the log ins tomorrow for some missing members...

I know a few that would not mind a boooo opportunity.

 

[Tra-El]

(I'll put this in the Cavill thread as well) but the Man of Steel himself just landed in San Diego! YEA!

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Hope you are right. It only takes one guy.

That would be a sorry thing to do.



Before and since the film's release, I have seen a lot of ideas thrown out for "what they should have done", including my own, and nothing has made me say "That would have been so much better!" Yeah, there were some things they could have changed. But, the fact of the matter is, with a character as powerful as Superman, in the context of these other characters they need to include, it is HARD to tell a big screen story that makes fans and non fan movie goers happy. If I were a writer or filmmaker, I think I would have a much, much easier time with the Avengers characters, or the X-Men or a Batman solo. It's one thing to do a Superman story in the comics, people are much less forgiving in live action on the big screen, balancing the internal logic of the story, "Why didn't Superman just...", the action, the characters, the drama, a viable physical and mental threat, an emotional arc. I loved the Donner movies as a kid, but logic is basically thrown out the window, there's a completely different audience these days, and people wouldn't buy that anymore. CBM expectations are completely different now



People who act like the movie is so stupid, and their idea would be so much better, I would bet that 99.99% of the time, their idea would not have worked as a blockbuster film that audiences and critics would embrace. There's a reason people say that Superman is a boring character, or he's too powerful. Just to have a believable confrontation between Batman and Superman, you have to use Kryptonite, a crazy armored suit, and Superman is holding back big time.


Snyder and Co. were not trying to disrespect these characters, there was a lot of thought put into the film. People should at least acknowledge and respect that they took on a much more difficult task than most Comic Book Movies, and not just act like "Snyder sucks, booo Snyder, fire him." Snyder is a pretty damn outstanding director in terms of visuals in the Comic Book genre.


I actually think if Snyder and Terrio were given free reign over the X-Men universe, they could make a film that blows the Singer/Jackmanverse out of the water. Imagine an X-Men movie that is as visually faithful to the comics and the comic book aesthetic as BvS, that takes on much more serious, grounded, mature themes (I'm not saying the X films aren't mature or good, but I do feel like they don't live up to the potential of the comics)

 

[wnjcwjkk]

I think the scene with Bruce as a kid, falling into the cave, was done well. I like that he hears that fluttering, and looks up and the camera kind of pans up into the cave with this image and sound of hundreds of bats, and right then you see

Batman created by
Bob Kane and Bill Finger


Felt like a fitting tribute.


And, I think we're so used to seeing it in the film and the cartoons, but imagine actually being a little kid, having witnessed your parents gunned down, your world is over, and you fall into this dark cave that you can't get out of on your own, and hearing that squeaking and fluttering noise, looking up and seeing hundreds, or more, bats in huge clusters in every nook and cranny, the cave is completely infested. No wonder Bruce is so F'ed up in the head. And I gotta say, Affleck, I completely bought him as Bruce Wayne. Probably even moreso than Bale, and I really liked Bale.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Since we were talking about Batman killing earlier, when he shot the guy's gas tank, did that guarantee that he was about to explode, or did he then cause the explosion by triggering his flame thrower? Like Batman basically said "I believe you", shot his tank, and gave him the opportunity to throw his hands up and say "Okay, I'm done!" But he then tried to waste Martha, causing his own death.

 

[Sleiek]

People say you would have to pull the FT trigger to ignite and cause the explosion but I am not an expert in using flame throwers.

But the way Zack Snyder described it, he wasn't willing to have Batman shoot him between his eyes. So I don't know if he intended to have Batman kill or "disable" in a way that your attack results in your own death.

 

[idiot09]

That would be a sorry thing to do.



Before and since the film's release, I have seen a lot of ideas thrown out for "what they should have done", including my own, and nothing has made me say "That would have been so much better!" Yeah, there were some things they could have changed. But, the fact of the matter is, with a character as powerful as Superman, in the context of these other characters they need to include, it is HARD to tell a big screen story that makes fans and non fan movie goers happy. If I were a writer or filmmaker, I think I would have a much, much easier time with the Avengers characters, or the X-Men or a Batman solo. It's one thing to do a Superman story in the comics, people are much less forgiving in live action on the big screen, balancing the internal logic of the story, "Why didn't Superman just...", the action, the characters, the drama, a viable physical and mental threat, an emotional arc. I loved the Donner movies as a kid, but logic is basically thrown out the window, there's a completely different audience these days, and people wouldn't buy that anymore. CBM expectations are completely different now



People who act like the movie is so stupid, and their idea would be so much better, I would bet that 99.99% of the time, their idea would not have worked as a blockbuster film that audiences and critics would embrace. There's a reason people say that Superman is a boring character, or he's too powerful. Just to have a believable confrontation between Batman and Superman, you have to use Kryptonite, a crazy armored suit, and Superman is holding back big time.


Snyder and Co. were not trying to disrespect these characters, there was a lot of thought put into the film. People should at least acknowledge and respect that they took on a much more difficult task than most Comic Book Movies, and not just act like "Snyder sucks, booo Snyder, fire him." Snyder is a pretty damn outstanding director in terms of visuals in the Comic Book genre.


I actually think if Snyder and Terrio were given free reign over the X-Men universe, they could make a film that blows the Singer/Jackmanverse out of the water. Imagine an X-Men movie that is as visually faithful to the comics and the comic book aesthetic as BvS, that takes on much more serious, grounded, mature themes (I'm not saying the X films aren't mature or good, but I do feel like they don't live up to the potential of the comics)

Very well said

 

[wnjcwjkk]

People say you would have to pull the FT trigger to ignite and cause the explosion but I am not an expert in using flame throwers.

But the way Zack Snyder described it, he wasn't willing to have Batman shoot him between his eyes. So I don't know if he intended to have Batman kill or "disable" in a way that your attack results in your own death.

Watching the movie now. He did appear to be firing warning shots in front of the vehicles, giving the guys ample time to hightail it, but they remained shooting, and they did make a point to show a reaction shot of him looking down at them, he's pretty stone faced, so it's hard to show his emotion in that scene, so at least they showed him acknowledging it.



Oh, and how bout his "Get Over Here!" Scorpion move with the grappling gun. Makes me think they really should make a new Mortal Kombat movie trilogy, with all the special effects and fight scenes of 2016, could be an awesome Action Fantasy Epic, that is visually faithful to the source material. Follow the story, characters, and settings of the original Mortal Kombat Trilogy, while changing some things.

The first one could be the MK tournament, with Liu Kang, Johnny Cage, Sonya Blade, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Kano, Goro, and Shang Tsung (along with added characters for fight fodder)
The second one wouldn't be a tournament but would follow the characters into Outworld where there is a civil war and uprising against Shao Kahn, maybe Smoke is involved in the battle (imagine a 300 style battle with this stream of smoke swirling through the battlefield, Smoke keeps materializing and killing people, then POOF back into smoke before a sword hits him.
The third and final would be Outworld's apocalyptic invasion of Earth, with the extra characters like Stryker, Kabal, Cyrax.

Could be pretty great. Either that or a series, like Spartacus: Blood And Sand. Sorry for getting off topic, the Batman fight just made me think about it

 

[wnjcwjkk]

I love Wonder Woman's entrance, the "Oh s***", Batman accepts that he's about to die, she drops in to save him, but you think it's Superman, then her music and that look, the force of her bracelets, Superman breaking the sound barrier and shooting down through the clouds in the horizon (they've really done a great job depicting his flying as something exciting), then "I've killed things from other worlds before." Such a bada**. "She with you?" "Thought she was with you." To break the tension

Absolute "Movie Theater Gold". There's definitely a reason why that sequence was one of the most positively talked about and memorable. Absolutely ridiculous that they spoiled most of us on all of that in the trailers, so we didn't get the "Holy S***!" experience. One of the biggest mistakes for me. They still could have hyped us for WW without revealing any of that.


But, if they can pull off multiple scenes like that, and the entire final battle, in Justice League, I bet that's gonna win over the fans. In a few years, you might even be hearing a majority coming around and saying DC is the better film franchise (or at least secretly thinking it, and not wanting to say it lol)

 

[wnjcwjkk]

When they show Steppenwolf, it looks like he has his arms out, holding a mother box in each hand, and then there's another mother box that looks like it's being held up by "something" around his waist level lol

 

[souperman]

People say you would have to pull the FT trigger to ignite and cause the explosion but I am not an expert in using flame throwers.

But the way Zack Snyder described it, he wasn't willing to have Batman shoot him between his eyes. So I don't know if he intended to have Batman kill or "disable" in a way that your attack results in your own death.

In the interview,

“...There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun… I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’”

He says for certain that HE (Snyder) did not kill KGB.

He also says:

“So, I tried to do it by proxy. Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem.

This shows that Snyder's thinking is that Batman is dramatically stopping the bad guys. In his heart and mind (such as it is) his is not setting out to murder the bad guys...but he doesn't loose sleep if they die or are critically injured by their combined interactions actions...or does he?

 

[souperman]

When they show Steppenwolf, it looks like he has his arms out, holding a mother box in each hand, and then there's another mother box that looks like it's being held up by "something" around his waist level lol

...stop yourself...

 

[LostSon88]

You guys think Zack might be boo'd on stage tomorrow?

Without the protection of their computer screen?

Please...

 

[souperman]

Without the protection of their computer screen?

Please...

t:

 

[kguillou]

In the interview,

“...There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun… I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’”

He says for certain that HE (Snyder) did not kill KGB.

He also says:

“So, I tried to do it by proxy. Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem.

This shows that Snyder's thinking is that Batman is dramatically stopping the bad guys. In his heart and mind (such as it is) his is not setting out to murder the bad guys...but he doesn't loose sleep if they die or are critically injured by their combined interactions actions...or does he?

That scene from TDKR graphic novel (and the animated movie) gave me whiplash. I was like, wait, Batman just straight up shot and killed a guy? He does that and then later on in the same story he makes a point to only shoot the mutants with "rubber bullets." Frank Miller's Batman is a strange beast.

 

[Sleiek]

But I have seen some people argue that he didn't shoot the guy because of what the new commissioner later says.

What is the truth? My brother has the graphic novel and I am gonna check with him.