BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - Part 307

This sentiment baffles me. The UC has stronger editing and Superman is actually given something worthwhile to do. But is it drastically better? Not in my estimation. The only people I see regularly claiming that are the ones who already defended the theatrical cut tooth and nail.

I haven't seen the movie in a while but I recall that almost every single scene that wasn't action/spectacle lasted around two minutes or less before it'd cut to the next sequence. Is that the case? I feel like the longest dialogue scenes were between Lex and the Senator.

I saw the ultimate cut for the first time recently and I find myself agreeing with this for the most part. It's longer, but it mostly amounts to stretching the questionable material to fill more space, rather than adding new content that significantly alters the way the story is told or contextualises the remaining content differently, other than on a purely plot related level. Superman still very much feels like an afterthought in a movie that can never stop talking about him.

I'd be very curious to know what particular aspect of the added footage could cause a complete 180 on someone's opinion of the movie.
 
Superman still very much feels like an afterthought in a movie that can never stop talking about him.

This is a very concise and very accurate summary of BvS' biggest failure.
 
I saw the ultimate cut for the first time recently and I find myself agreeing with this for the most part. It's longer, but it mostly amounts to stretching the questionable material to fill more space, rather than adding new content that significantly alters the way the story is told or contextualises the remaining content differently, other than on a purely plot related level. Superman still very much feels like an afterthought in a movie that can never stop talking about him.

I'd be very curious to know what particular aspect of the added footage could cause a complete 180 on someone's opinion of the movie.

I'm one of those that did a 180 from the TC to the ultimate edition. To me, coherence and story flow is everything. I remember in theater I was digging the tone and vibe of the first 30 minutes of the movie and then once the second act hit and the editing and pacing went to s***, the movie lost me. I just felt like I had no idea what was going on the way the movie was jumping around so movie, I almost felt dizzy. And because of that, it spoiled vibe and mood that I was in during act I.

So, to me, the UC is a vast improvement because it feels SMOOTH. Each scene breathes and takes its time, Henry Cavill gets, like, 20 more minutes of screen time which in a film is a ton and it feels like a movie about Batman AND Superman. Bruce AND Clark. The movie in theaters felt like someone had dropped the film reel on the way to the projector and parts of the movie were missing. The UC feels like a complete experience.

Now, granted, the key factor here is that I actually LIKED the movie up until the editing went screwy. If you were not already digging the vibe and tone of the movie in its first 30 minutes, a longer version will do nothing for you imo.
 
^^^ Yeah. Idk why they chose to show such a screwy version in theaters. It definitely felt off, and I left not feeling like I had seen a complete movie.


I love the UC of the movie, the tone, what they were going for. I forgive the flaws because so much of it is exactly what I'd like to see in a Superman/Batman film.


But I do understand the above criticisms. It's like they packed so much into the movie that nothing really gets a chance to breathe. It could've used more dialogue and character development, as opposed to plot movement. It ends up feeling a bit cold and removed. The audience doesn't really get a chance to get emotionally invested with either Bruce or Clark. I feel like Cavill is such a naturally likable guy, there needed to be more of his natural charm in the role of Superman, the audience needs to relate to him. It lacks emotion, almost as if all the characters are just plot devices and not living, breathing people.


Hopefully, this is something they can rectify in JL
 
I feel like Cavill is such a naturally likable guy, there needed to be more of his natural charm in the role of Superman, the audience needs to relate to him. It lacks emotion, almost as if all the characters are just plot devices and not living, breathing people.

I didn't feel that at all, especially with Clark. I find that I don't need characters to be charming in order for me to relate to them. I relate to a lot of people who aren't charming. In fact, the "charming" qualities people see in Reeve's Superman are mostly a big turn off for me. That version, in my opinion, often blurs the line between charm and arrogance. Plus, with Cavill's Clark, it's important to look at the moments when he is more expressive. He's gentle, romantic, and even silly with Lois at their apartment. He's passionate and argumentative with Perry and Bruce about The Batman's reign of terror in Gotham. Emotion ripples off of Superman when Lex toys with him and showers him with awful photos of his captured mother. I really loved the soft and warm smile he had when he returned the girl he rescued to her family, too.
 
I think the fact that some of us can list the times Clark shows emotion and the fact that you don't see similar posts for any other character says it all.
 
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I'm one of those that did a 180 from the TC to the ultimate edition. To me, coherence and story flow is everything. I remember in theater I was digging the tone and vibe of the first 30 minutes of the movie and then once the second act hit and the editing and pacing went to s***, the movie lost me. I just felt like I had no idea what was going on the way the movie was jumping around so movie, I almost felt dizzy. And because of that, it spoiled vibe and mood that I was in during act I.

So, to me, the UC is a vast improvement because it feels SMOOTH. Each scene breathes and takes its time, Henry Cavill gets, like, 20 more minutes of screen time which in a film is a ton and it feels like a movie about Batman AND Superman. Bruce AND Clark. The movie in theaters felt like someone had dropped the film reel on the way to the projector and parts of the movie were missing. The UC feels like a complete experience.

Now, granted, the key factor here is that I actually LIKED the movie up until the editing went screwy. If you were not already digging the vibe and tone of the movie in its first 30 minutes, a longer version will do nothing for you imo.

I agree, despite the UC being 30 mins longer, it actually feels shorter when you watch it due to how much better it flows. The added Clark/Superman scenes also help of course.
 
I have to agree with the UC supporters. While I enjoyed aspects of the TC (despite its many flaws), I felt that the UC was way stronger. The flow, the added material.... all of this added up to a stronger viewing experience for me. The more I watch that movie, the more I have come to appreciate what Snyder and Co. was aiming for. Is it perfect? No, but Zod damn do I love it.
 
I haven't been to the SHH for atleast a month I think. But I wanted to drop in to say that this movie is listed in "Violent Movies" in Netflix.

LOL
 
I haven't been to the SHH for atleast a month I think. But I wanted to drop in to say that this movie is listed in "Violent Movies" in Netflix.

LOL

Netflix has a category called Violent Movies?
 
Nice. Zack confirms this little foreshadowing in BvS :

DK0mEktWsAATKdc.jpg


DK0mEdmWAAA0EI2.jpg
 
I never thought a pic of my wife and I would end up on SHH. Haha thanks for sharing!
 
Lol nice work man!


Love it or hate it, there really is a LOT of thought put into these little details and references and connection and symbolism and foreshadowing, etc. Can only hope JL has similar layering
 
Nice to know the movies have helped out. Even as a Snyder fan I know his moves aren't for everyone. But they certainly have an impact that's for sure.
 
[YT]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F9juReoJxI0[/YT]

Well, an awful lot of you are going to hate this, but this new video from MovieBob is hands down the best critique of everything wrong with this film (part one of it anyway). I find the rapid fire speech irritating, but there’s no denying that the points he raises are ones I fundamentally agree with. Intent vs Execution indeed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F9juReoJxI0
 
Was just about to post this as well. It's a great critique and I'm excited for part two.
 
I don't like a Batman who kills small time henchmen and yet lets a dangerous killer like The Joker live.

You're not supposed to like this. You're supposed to not like it so much that you are happy to see Batman see the error of his ways and commit to not failing so spectacularly again.

I don't like a Superman who spends the entire movie being emotionless and distant and then the movie expects me to be emotionally moved when he [blackout]is killed by Doomsday[/blackout].

Emotionless? Clark is very expressive with Lois and with Perry. He responds to an enormous amount of criticism with grace and care. He's deliberative and thoughtful. Superman is distant because his every action is overanalyzed and criticized.

I don't like how stupid Lois Lane is written to be.

She's literally the only one who figures out Lex's plan. She deduces that the kryptonite spear will kill Doomsday.

I don't like what an ******* Perry White is turned into.

How familiar are you with Perry White? He's always been a bit of a cynic and a curmudgeon.

I don't like how Lex Luthor is turned into a weirdo who blows people up with jars of his piss.

Lex Luthor has been many things over the decades since his creation, including a versions who have been massive weirdoes. Lex blew up people with a bomb hidden in a man's wheelchair to frame Superman as irresponsible and a catalyst for destruction. The peach tea with just a way for Senator Finch to know she had been had before she died.

That being said, relitigating BvS is the last thing we should be doing right now. I've said my piece and have no intention to continue a back-and-forth.
 
You're not supposed to like this. You're supposed to not like it so much that you are happy to see Batman see the error of his ways and commit to not failing so spectacularly again.

Why did Batman kill people after his "Martha" moment with Superman? He blows up Lex's thugs for no real reason, and yet The Joker was in Suicide Squad. So we got a Batman who will kill low level henchmen casually and yet lets a dangerous mass murdering villain like The Joker live. How is this supposed to be a good characterization of Batman?

Emotionless? Clark is very expressive with Lois and with Perry. He responds to an enormous amount of criticism with grace and care. He's deliberative and thoughtful. Superman is distant because his every action is overanalyzed and criticized.

The entire movie is Superman being criticized. That's fine. What is not fine is there are little to no scenes where Superman is humanized. The movie is far too focused on Superman's impact on the world and what everyone thinks about him that his actual motivations and character agency get lost.

She's literally the only one who figures out Lex's plan. She deduces that the kryptonite spear will kill Doomsday.

The plan she figured out was stupid to begin with. Why would a billionaire like Lex Luthor risk his entire empire and freedom trying to frame Superman using a gun and bullets in the first place (a character as strong and powerful as Superman clearly doesn't need a gun to kill someone)? Stevie Wonder could poke holes in this plan.

And didn't Lois throw the kryponite spear into the water before she had to drive back into the water to retrieve it? Not exactly smart writing there.


How familiar are you with Perry White? He's always been a bit of a cynic and a curmudgeon.

I've never seen a Perry White that goes on a rant about how "its not 1938 anymore" when one of his reporters tells him he is just trying to do the right thing by writing a meaningful story.

That scene between him and Clark where he goes off on him with that rant was one of the worst scenes in the movie. It sucked because Perry's "cynical man" arc never goes anywhere, and having Clark stand there and take having what he believes in trashed like that without being able to change Perry's mind or well... any kind of resolution to that arc at all does nothing for Clark's character. The scene just sucked, and made both characters look bad.


Lex Luthor has been many things over the decades since his creation, including a versions who have been massive weirdoes. Lex blew up people with a bomb hidden in a man's wheelchair to frame Superman as irresponsible and a catalyst for destruction. The peach tea with just a way for Senator Finch to know she had been had before she died.

1. Our supervillain in this movie used a jar of PISS as a calling card. Just gross and not any version of Lex Luthor I know would do this. Just gross for no reason. Had no place in a comic book movie with Batman and Superman in it.

2. Why the hell didn't the metal detectors in the Capital Building find the bombs in the guy's wheelchair?

3. Why would anyone believe that someone as powerful as Superman need a bomb to kill a lot of people? This is why Lex's plan in this movie is dumb as ****. Just poor garbage writing.

That being said, relitigating BvS is the last thing we should be doing right now. I've said my piece and have no intention to continue a back-and-forth.

If you don't want to discuss my thoughts on this movie why did you do a point by point rebuttal of my entire post?

Don't be afraid of me. I don't bite.
 
I'm one of those that did a 180 from the TC to the ultimate edition. To me, coherence and story flow is everything. I remember in theater I was digging the tone and vibe of the first 30 minutes of the movie and then once the second act hit and the editing and pacing went to s***, the movie lost me. I just felt like I had no idea what was going on the way the movie was jumping around so movie, I almost felt dizzy. And because of that, it spoiled vibe and mood that I was in during act I.

So, to me, the UC is a vast improvement because it feels SMOOTH. Each scene breathes and takes its time, Henry Cavill gets, like, 20 more minutes of screen time which in a film is a ton and it feels like a movie about Batman AND Superman. Bruce AND Clark. The movie in theaters felt like someone had dropped the film reel on the way to the projector and parts of the movie were missing. The UC feels like a complete experience.

Now, granted, the key factor here is that I actually LIKED the movie up until the editing went screwy. If you were not already digging the vibe and tone of the movie in its first 30 minutes, a longer version will do nothing for you imo.

Same exact thing that happened to me!

They really messed up the movie's narrative in the shorter version. They should've cut out scenes such as the Knightmare sequence to make space for some of the more important subplots.
 
The entire movie is Superman being criticized. That's fine. What is not fine is there are little to no scenes where Superman is humanized. The movie is far too focused on Superman's impact on the world and what everyone thinks about him that his actual motivations and character agency get lost.



1. Our supervillain in this movie used a jar of PISS as a calling card. Just gross and not any version of Lex Luthor I know would do this. Just gross for no reason. Had no place in a comic book movie with Batman and Superman in it.

2. Why the hell didn't the metal detectors in the Capital Building find the bombs in the guy's wheelchair?


What do you think "humanize" means?...I only ask cuz I feel the whole movie does exactly that. But Maybe that word means something different to me.


1) I think given the context of the film, it feels exactly like something Lex Luthor would do.

2) Wasn't the chair made of metal?...Do they rob people of their wheel chairs in the American courts?...I'd believe it if they did but I don't think they do.
 
I've just come back from Justice League, and BvS is superior in every way.
 
I've watched BvS again yesterday and I love this movie more every time I watch it. I got emotional in my viewing yesterday, I'm gonna go and say it I think it a damn near masterpiece. Yes, it has plot holes but so what, every cbm does, I don't let that stuff detract from the experience. I watched it with my father who never saw it and didn't even know Wonder Woman was in the movie and he LOVED it. He was so into the action sequences at the end and I could tell he was moved by Superman's demise.

This is a fine piece of art, man. A unique, brave, emotional, hard hitting yet visually stimulating. Batman v Superman: Ultimate Edition, I love you.
 

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