All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - Part 307

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Thread Manager, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Wheels Groovy

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    It's still something that's overbearing as all hell and makes Jonathan and Martha's role in Clark's path to being Superman mean less to me. Ultimately Clark's ideals don't matter in the grand scheme because space dad has his plan and I have to be miserable because of **** out of my control.

    I'd rather be Frank Castle and Bruce Wayne where at least they want to do what they're doing.
     
    #1176 Wheels, Jun 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  2. Aurakles Registered

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    In MOS it's made clear that helping people is what Clark wants to do, not something that is forced on him.
    Before he meets Jor-Els hologram he is using his powers to help people, and it's not because the Kents told him to do it either. It's his own choice.
    His reluctance to go public isn't because he doesn't want to, but because he's worried it might do more harm than good.

    I agree that the Superman in MOS and BVS isn't a great example of a power fantasy, his life isn't easy, but that doesn't mean it isn't inspiring. They show him struggling with difficult moral questions, that just wanting to do go and believing in yourself isn't enough. They show that we need to careful consider of the consequences of our actions, that we need to seek out alternative viewpoints and be open to the possibility that we might in the wrong.
    They aren't fun examples of escapism, these films seek to show that just having power doesn't solve problems, you need to be thoughtful and careful about how you wield it.
    I think they are far more useful stories because of that.
     
    #1177 Aurakles, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  3. The Guard Registered

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    You know, it's entirely possible for Clark to want to be Superman and also to feel that it's a burden, or to have doubts about his interactions with humanity.
     
  4. SuperRouth Registered

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    Well said guys
     
  5. Tg11 Registered

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    I wonder how the Snyder Cut going forward just how it will affect the DCEU continuity when it comes to this particular film in general if it even does at all?
     
  6. Neil McCauley Registered

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    I still like the film but that Martha scene, is damn bad.
     
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  7. Wheels Groovy

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    You guys are missing one thing that's an important destination I believe. Yes, Clark showed the instinct to help people with his powers in the bus scene, but presumably stopped doing anything of the sort until the oil rig scene. Okay we have that.

    My issue is that Jor-El pretty much told him to go public and be Superman with the typical Donner messianic stuff. And honestly there's not much to suggest a stark contrast in personality and ideology in comparison to the rest of Snyder's world. There's really nothing that super about this guy outside of the fact he has powers. You compare that to the attitude of MCU Steve Rogers or even Grant Morrison's Golden Age riff there's not much focus on what makes Clark Kent great. More focus on what makes his conception great than anything. Snyder dials up the relatability so much that the aspiration aspect of the individual character barely exists in Man of Steel.

    Just one calorie. Not even enough.

    The idea of the film should have been to put Superman as most imagine him in the real world and play off that. Conforming the character to the environment in this case makes things less compelling.
     
    #1182 Wheels, Oct 8, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  8. TheVileOne Registered

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. TheVileOne Registered

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    It is entirely possible. Zack Snyder is just horrendous at executing it.
     
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  10. Wheels Groovy

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    Yeah, it's not a case of never feeling burdened at all. It overwhelms the character. Smallville at least found a decent balance in Clark's disposition and outlook on things. You could actually sense real strong idealism in the guy and he was a bit headstrong even if he took forever to actually become Superman.

    This guy as written just is just lacking to me.
     
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  11. MaceB Registered

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    “Lacking” is THE word. Henry Cavill’s Superman has no real character. What does he like, what does he dislike? What’s he good at? Is he known for his charm or is he angry and cynical? Does he have a philosophy on life?

    he’s an empty, wooden character in these movies, IMO. Superman should have personality.
     
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  12. TheVileOne Registered

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    All Might in My Hero Academia is the best take on a modernization for a classic Superman type of hero. Horikoshi is also a likable human being who recognizes his role as the world's symbol of peace being a heavy burden. Once again, it's not impossible to execute. Snyder simply doesn't know how to do it.

    All Might is basically My Hero Academia's version of Superman, and he's also a real human being at the same time.

    In 2020, people have difficulty suspending belief in such ideas. Except when it's manga or anime I suppose.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1187 TheVileOne, Oct 8, 2020
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  13. TheVileOne Registered

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    "The citizens have no one to believe in! They need to rely on someone. That's why I want to be the pillar that gives people hope!"

    His mentor: "Know what I think? No matter how scared you are, you should smile to show that things will be OK. In this world, the ones always smiling are the ones who are the strongest."

    "Remember, if you have save someone, they've probably gone through something terrifying. They'll be frightened. Remember that superheroes don't just save people's lives, they save people's hearts too."
     
    #1188 TheVileOne, Oct 8, 2020
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  14. Vaibow Registered

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    I think they alluded to the fact he did stuff, that's how Lois was tracking him down, again Snyder was poor in execution.

    That's why I wanted the character fleshed out more in scenes that were perfect for it... on the fishing trawler.. imagine 5 minutes of him around a table talking, sharing stories with those men.

    The bar scene.. that girl... what was the history there.. let us see him working there, trying to start a life, darting off for rescues..

    Let's see how he got into that military base.

    Those three scenes would have shown his character, integrity and resolve right there.

    It did feel like he was reluctant...

    I mean, letting his dad die... he could have easily run over, grabbed him and jumped into the horizon never to be seen again... no one was filming, they were probably all strangers.. just another urban legend... no son would let their father die.... no son....

    Snyder set him up to fail, clark now mopes around through life feeling the guilt.
     
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  15. Wheels Groovy

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    Oh Lois did allude to that. I don't want to be unfair here.

    Sorry about that. I flat out do not care about anything that ever involves Jor-El having any grand vision at all. He didn't shape the man who would be Superman.

    Clark is just not giving us much overall. I don't watch it very much honestly. I own it but I barely bother with it.
     
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  16. Dk1201 Registered

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    i feel the film would of been better and made more money if it ended on the scene of Batman Superman and Wonderwoman about to do battle with Doomsday.
     
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  17. Vaibow Registered

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    That would have been a cliffhanger for sure, but the movie itself regardless of ending at that point was still not very good, sadly.
     
  18. Neil McCauley Registered

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    Does anyone still like the movie?
     
  19. Vaibow Registered

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    people want to like it... it dropped the ball... it's obvious.

    Trouble is, we all seemed hyped for the Snyder cut of jl... but I feel I will watch it and think...meh
     
  20. Wheels Groovy

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    All you have to do is hang out in the Justice League forum for 5 seconds my dude. I'm sorry about all the criticism of BvS and sorry about my comment in the comic book movie tournament thread.
     
    #1195 Wheels, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  21. Neil McCauley Registered

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    I never had huge issues with the film to be honest.
     
  22. AVEITWITHJAMON Darksider

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    Yep, I still watch it every now and again and enjoy it more each time I do watch it.
     
  23. Neil McCauley Registered

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    Fair enough. But extended or theatrical?
     
  24. AVEITWITHJAMON Darksider

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    Extended. I liked the theatrical, but the EE flows so much better and actually feels the shorter movie despite being 30 mins longer.
     
  25. Neil McCauley Registered

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    will watch extended next year then
     
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