BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Boom]

I can say the same about a Batman who would let Punisher pull the trigger or a Batman who uses it on Joker himself.

Oh, I would much rather have a Batman that doesn't kill. I'd also like a Batman that is more compassionate and empathetic - to a point.

But that comic just takes things a little too far for my tastes. You can demonstrate Batman's humanity and value for human life without putting him in such a thoughtless situation. He just lets the Joker run away? I trust he apprehends him by the end of the comic, right? Better hope he doesn't go on a killing spree until then.

 

[TripleJ]

Bruce Timm, who I would imagine is quite well respected around these parts for his work on BTAS and that expanded universe, wanted Superman to kill Doomsday in his animated movie much like Superman killed Zod in MOS(he had no problem with Superman killing in MOS). WB told him no, he couldn't do it. Timm has even said he thinks the no killing rule is outdated.

Yes, like I said, WB/DC decides it.

Yeah, it's a different version. A wrong version. A bad version. That's why any time it's done in movies it spawns a backlash;

How do I know they didn't what? Dislike changing the no kill rule? If they had they would have spoken out about it at least once over the years. Finger wasn't shy about speaking his mind about things that upset him. Like when Kane cheated him out of his due creative credit. So do you really think he wouldn't speak out about his character being turned into the opposite of what he originally was if he had a problem with it?

The no kill code is not good for building up his rogues gallery, it's good because it makes Batman a better hero and character. There's no what if here. It's brought about some brilliant stories and character moments. It helps create interesting conflicts. Just check out the Under the Red Hood tale when Jason (who is what Batman would be if he was a killer) confronts him for not killing the Joker.

There's no multiple characters, multiple stories on this issue. Batman is not a killer. His moral code has been a huge defining aspect of his character for over 75 years. That's a fact, not an opinion.

Different, yes. Wrong, subjective.

In any case, who are you to say it's wrong? Neither you or I can decide that. WB/DC decides it.

Wow, did you just imply what I think you did? Those movies doing badly had nothing to do with Batman killing, and everything to do with movies being bad.

GA doesn't care about Batman's "no kill code". Surely, they wouldn't have supported Nolan's movies if that was the case.

Okay, I will give you that - what about them being wrong? If they liked it, doesn't mean they think their original versions were "wrong" (which is what you were implying).

Whether the no kill code makes the character a better one is debateable...but it being "wrong" isn't (As WB/DC decides that). And I do agree that it makes for some interesting stories (no debate there).

But, I don't agree that Snyder's version is "wrong".

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

So basically Bruce Timm thinks it's outdated, so that's that, it's outdated. ahhhh the Hype..

Bruce Timm also thought it would be a good idea for Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon to have a relationship.

The love of his adopted son and daughter of best friend/partner.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

So basically Bruce Timm thinks it's outdated, so that's that, it's outdated. ahhhh the Hype..

He is a well respected artist who has spent years on these characters producing projects enjoyed and loved by many. His opinion on the matter is worth mentioning is it not? It's not like I said Joe Schmoe from across the way said this.

 

[Lily Adler]

So basically Bruce Timm thinks it's outdated, so that's that, it's outdated. ahhhh the Hype..

He's our queen mother.

 

[javonstokess]

they should make a james bond movie where he is a monogamous pacifist who only drinks club soda. You know, for a bold and different reinterpretation.

lmao!!

 

[rogue trooper]

No needs for a poll. Just read the reviews/reactions from here and.. everywhere actually. Isn't it a general consensus that Batman is everyone's favourite character and WW is the most badass one?

I was referring specifically to your statement of most people not caring about Supes by that point. Whether Batman is everyone's favorite and WW the most badas one is besides the point.

 

[MadVillainy]

He is a well respected artist who has spent years on these characters producing projects enjoyed and loved by many. His opinion on the matter is worth mentioning is it not? It's not like I said Joe Schmoe from across the way said this.

As I said, you can respect someone and not agree with everything they say. His opinion is just like everyone elses to me: I can agree with it or I can not.

 

[Dopinder]

Bruce Timm also thought it would be a good idea for Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon to have a relationship.

The love of his adopted son and daughter of best friend/partner.

I actually kind of liked that haha. It's not hard to imagine Bruce and Barbara dating for a bit since they at one point worked very close together. My version of Batman makes mistakes too.....

 

[Dopinder]

He's our queen mother.

Bruce Timm is the son of God. I see him in my dreams.....

 

[Lily Adler]

I thought it was in a frittata.

 

[MadVillainy]

I actually kind of liked that haha. It's not hard to imagine Bruce and Barbara dating for a bit since they at one point worked very close together. My version of Batman makes mistakes too.....

It's not hard to imagine but it's so messed up. It's like your step dad dating your ex girlfriend lol

 

[FlawlessVictory]

As I said, you can respect someone and not agree with everything they say. His opinion is just like everyone elses to me: I can agree with it or I can not.

Of course, but it's worth mentioning because of his involvement with the characters. In the end, it's all opinions that drive these discussions right?

 

[javonstokess]

I've always wanted to see a John McClane that doesn't speak and uses waterguns instead.

 

[Dopinder]

It's not hard to imagine but it's so messed up. It's like your step dad dating your ex girlfriend lol

True, but that kind of stuff happens in real life all the time.

Besides, Dick and Babs had broke up, and it was only her and Bruce working together. Batman had to make his move on Babs at some point

 

[MadVillainy]

True, but that kind of stuff happens in real life all the time.

Besides, Dick and Babs had broke up, and it was only her and Bruce working together. Batman had to make his move on Babs at some point

I'm not that old but Ive never heard of a step dad dating his stepson's ex girlfriend in real life. Besides a lot of stuff happens in real life all the time, doesn't make it any less creepy.

But it's whatever.

 

[Flint Marko]

Count me as someone who thinks Batman killing is just one small item on the long list of reasons this movie doesn't work. There are so many other bigger problems that make it not just a bad Superman/Batman adaption, but just a bad movie as a whole.

 

[The Joker]

Different, yes. Wrong, subjective.

Turning a character into something that goes against the morality of who they are is always wrong.

In any case, who are you to say it's wrong? Neither you or I can decide that. WB/DC decides it.

Come again? Only WB can say what's the right way to portray Batman? No offense, but if you want to think that way and be a fan who accepts what ever he's given just because the movie people decided that's what was best, then that's up to you.

I, and anyone else, have the ability to think for myself, and the god given right to say what we think is right or wrong for these characters. The only thing WB has final say on is the choice of interpretation to use because it's their movie. Them having final say on that doesn't make their choice right.

Wow, did you just imply what I think you did? Those movies doing badly had nothing to do with Batman killing, and everything to do with movies being bad.

I've no idea what you're talking about. I am factually showing you that killer Batman has always gotten a backlash from fans because it's a bad characterization.

You trying to say it's just a different version is a weak attempt to white wash a bad characterization into simply being something different. You could call an awful characterization something different, but it's still wrong and awful.

GA doesn't care about Batman's "no kill code". Surely, they wouldn't have supported Nolan's movies if that was the case.

Nolan's Batman didn't go around needlessly slaughtering criminals. He didn't brand them for death in jail. He didn't hospitalize innocent security guards.

Okay, I will give you that - what about them being wrong? If they liked it, doesn't mean they think their original versions were "wrong" (which is what you were implying).

If they didn't think their original versions were wrong, they would have spoken about it being unnecessary to change Batman's code. When you think it was a total around for the character, it's not a minor change that was made. The character is saying killing is wrong, which means what the character originally was is wrong. Finger had no apparent issue with that.

Whether the no kill code makes the character a better one is debateable...but it being "wrong" isn't (As WB/DC decides that). And I do agree that it makes for some interesting stories (no debate there).

I don't see how it's debatable considering that's who the character is and has been for over 75 years. You turn the character into something they are not, that goes against a moral value that defines them as heroes and people, there's no grey area here. That is wrong.

 

[The Joker]

He is a well respected artist who has spent years on these characters producing projects enjoyed and loved by many. His opinion on the matter is worth mentioning is it not? It's not like I said Joe Schmoe from across the way said this.

Bruce Timm also said he understands why Superman needs to have the no kill rule. It's not as if he was saying they should do away with it.

 

[MadVillainy]

Count me as someone who thinks Batman killing is just one small item on the long list of reasons this movie doesn't work. There are so many other bigger problems that make it not just a bad Superman/Batman adaption, but just a bad movie as a whole.

I agree
I have my fanboy complaints and I have my general complaints. Even taking out my fanboy complaints I just didn't enjoy BvS

 

[javonstokess]

What's funny is Batman has also almost always been defined by his use of stealth.

That was almost non-existent in this movie. He was a battering ram.

 

[rogue trooper]

Oh, I would much rather have a Batman that doesn't kill. I'd also like a Batman that is more compassionate and empathetic - to a point.

But that comic just takes things a little too far for my tastes. You can demonstrate Batman's humanity and value for human life without putting him in such a thoughtless situation. He just lets the Joker run away? I trust he apprehends him by the end of the comic, right? Better hope he doesn't go on a killing spree until then.

Yep. Heh.t:

 

[OcStat]

What's funny is Batman has also almost always been defined by his use of stealth.

That was almost non-existent in this movie. He was a battering ram.

Man that is some truth right there. It does seem odd the more you think about it.

 

[rogue trooper]

What's funny is Batman has also almost always been defined by his use of stealth.

That was almost non-existent in this movie. He was a battering ram.

..in other words, very much like Frank Miller's TDKR. That works.

 

[Predator jp]

Count me as someone who thinks Batman killing is just one small item on the long list of reasons this movie doesn't work. There are so many other bigger problems that make it not just a bad Superman/Batman adaption, but just a bad movie as a whole.

pretty much.
i'm ok with Batman killing if it makes sense in the movie but in BvS it just doesn't.