BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Wolfgangamadeus]

What civilians? The place was empty of people, save for them and Lois.

While Batman was taking Doomsday through the city, not the fight at the end.

 

[Timebomb]

At least if Diana and Batman were doing something to save civilians while Superman took on Doomsday and it was like the comic book battle with the torn suit and stuff then I would've liked it a lot more. But come on, Diana could've taken that kryptonite spear.

Superman."Hey amazon lady who came out of nowhere, you look like you grew up throwing spears what with the sword and shield, would you mind taking this spear and doing the honor?" Would have been the only thing he said to her.

 

[AndrewOz]

Screen play was done before Daredevil was even approved as a concept.

Not the TV show. The movie. From 2003.

 

[Cats]

While Batman was taking Doomsday through the city, not the fight at the end.

He had his hands full trying to survive not getting blasted into smithereens by Doomsday. A bit hard to think of civilian safety at such time :P

 

[Jaxon]

Not the TV show. The movie. From 2003.

Fair enough, except for the bit where you think it's a rip off

 

[Jaxon]

Superman."Hey amazon lady who came out of nowhere, you look like you grew up throwing spears what with the sword and shield, would you mind taking this spear and doing the honor?" Would have been the only thing he said to her.

And then the whole internet would have erupted with scorn about Snyder destroying Superman's base character by putting someone else at risk. This was Doomsday, Superman is the man that goes in there and does the heavy lifting, no questions asked.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

I was under the impression that it wasn't on any sort of timer(silent or otherwise), that rather it was a basic signal trigger'd device. Not so different from the stuff in birth right.
You'd think lex would want to be in control of when it went off...
Just now noticed people thinking this bomb was on some clock.

I don't know WHAT I'd think this Lex would do thats the problem with him, I mean he created and released a monster he had no way of controlling, so why would the bomb be any different?

 

[AnneFan]

I think Lex believed the fact his own blood was involved could've equaled a form of control over Doomsday.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Why would the audience buy that? I don't see how that would technically work but even then if you just throw in a line or two explaining that that's how Lex intended it to work, that would go a long way, but we didn't get any of that. Everything is left to be imagined and interpreted.

 

[AnneFan]

Lex takes ownership of the technology, overwriting the authority of the Krypton council because they're all dead. Leaving only him. He assumed the role of head-honcho to get Doomsday made. I could see his reasoning from that perspective, thinking he had an element of control. And the way Superman saves Lex despite all the evil he caused was excellent.

 

[dark_b]

batman inside the batwing

shot of doomsday. no batman inside the batwing

wonder women lands infront of the batwing. no batman inside

batman inside the batwing

empty batwing

batman inside the batwing

this is proof that the final battle was a lot longer but different. so i wonder what happened? did batman jump out of the batwing before WW came to the rescue?
i think they filmed it that batman jumps out of the batwing and the this is the next shot . you know why? because batman jumps from buildings to buildings. but in the movie all the buildings are already destroyed and collapsed. i think they changed it with CGI.

and this would also explain this
'' do you find the spear''
'' i was a little of busy''
the joke works better because doomsday was attacking batman and he was jumping around not to get killed hehe

 

[Lencho01]

"The sky is blue"
Marvin: "Well, actually..."

Ha!

 

[Lencho01]

My problem with that scene is they were more interesting in framing it as a god among men (Superman hovering in the sunlight, looking down upon the helpless human begging for help). There's an emotional detachment, when they had an opportunity for an emotional connection.

Superman fraternizing with the people he saves is an important aspect that wasn't given much thought in this movie. Everything he did had to be tackled from a pseudo-religious POV. Everything is designed to highlight how we essentially have a god among insects.

Also they had the dumb voice over of people talking about what he's doing as being good or not.

 

[Marvin]

Also they had the dumb voice over of people talking about what he's doing as being good or not.

Marvin: "Well, actually..."

'no, it was dumb, just like the sky is blue...'
opinions, piss in a jar and call them peach tea or equate them to the color of the sky makes no difference.

Talking heads at least gave you that 'we need to know the worlds reaction to superman' itch that was bemoaned about missing in the last movie. However, as usual, not in the way it was supposed to be it seems.

 

[Micromind]

That voice over provided different opinions on Superman. His existence is not universally welcomed, he is topic of discussion.

What was dumb about it ?

The hovering above the people stranded in flooded parts showed him as a god like figure but Snyder needed to balance that with him hovering down to help them just to show that he wants save the people.

 

[AnneFan]

That voice over provided different opinions on Superman. His existence is not universally welcomed, he is topic of discussion.

What was dumb about it ?

No idea. Talking heads are a big feature in TDK Returns as well. It works and I see nothing wrong there. But because the RT is low everything about BvS sucks apparently.

 

[GreenKToo]

And that's fine but the point was specifically about having fun. I don't think he should be having fun rescuing people but that could be just me and I know I am in the minority when it comes to liking this film.

As a firefighter/EMT I can speak from experience when I say you dont laugh or joke around with someone ( most of the time ) when you are rescuing them. Its definetly not fun, and i've nearly crapped my pants more than once at some of the calls we've faced.
That said, I have joked around a couple of times when it was called for, like one time when we were using the jaws of life and the person trapped was freaked out. I had her smiling and even laughing by the time we got her out.
Smiling at the person also relieves whatever tension and fear they may have in an emergency situation. just my 2 cents.

 

[Loki882]

And then the whole internet would have erupted with scorn about Snyder destroying Superman's base character by putting someone else at risk. This was Doomsday, Superman is the man that goes in there and does the heavy lifting, no questions asked.

Yeah no they wouldn't have, not at all. Not if it's freaking Wonder Woman. And Superman is also supposed to be a smart guy who takes the best option available. So the trained warrior who ISN'T deathly sickened by Kryptonite, would have been the smarter play.

But then Snyder couldn't have crowbarred in his completely rushed and unearned take on DOS into the last ten minutes of the movie, so there's that.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Yeah no they wouldn't have, not at all. Not if it's freaking Wonder Woman. And Superman is also supposed to be a smart guy who takes the best option available. So the trained warrior who ISN'T deathly sickened by Kryptonite, would have been the smarter play.

But then Snyder couldn't have crowbarred in his completely rushed and unearned take on DOS into the last ten minutes of the movie, so there's that.

This act by Superman showed how truly selfless he was. Instead of putting WW in harm's way, who still could have been killed herself by attempting to spear Doomsday, Superman took it upon himself to protect her and Batman by attempting the act himself. Even when Superman is selfless he can't win apparently.

 

[matt47]

Anyone else realize that the start of Beautiful Lie is the Batman theme just slowed down?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I think Lex believed the fact his own blood was involved could've equaled a form of control over Doomsday.

Then Lex is an idiot. Not just bat-**** crazy, but an ignoramus.

This is one reason I laugh out loud at those who use words like "grounded" and "mature" to describe this universe.

Nonsense like the above-mentioned evil "plan" doesn't even hold up to comic book logic.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Some insight into Lex. A piece of a bigger article:

Move: Enters Ship

Lex doesn’t know what he will find or learn inside the ship but he is rewarded with command and the opportunity to learn from the knowledge of 100,000 worlds. Lex wants to learn all he can but he naturally asks two questions tied to his underlying motivation.

How can he defeat Superman?
Any others out there like Superman?

Batman has the Kryptonite and if he fails, fine, Lex moves on to his next plan to strike at Superman. So it’s reasonable that the first line of questions relate to defeating Superman should Batman fail. In response, the ship teaches Lex about Doomsday. Of course, all of these machinations are meaningless if the cosmos is filled with similarly-powered paragons just waiting in the wings to replace Superman should he die. So a natural second line of questions asks, “What is the most powerful thing in the cosmos which might come to our little blue planet?” In response, the ship teaches Lex about Darkseid. Lex learns Darkseid is coming and so a ticking clock appears.

Move: Decides to Develop Doomsday

In learning about Doomsday, Lex now knows there is a better example of and for his motivation. Doomsday is inherently destructive, despised, deformed, and demonic while far more powerful than Superman. Lex no longer has to try to demonize Superman in order to get out his message that “power can be innocent” is a lie, when he can directly prove it with Doomsday. At this point, ensuring that the world experiences Doomsday is the endgame. Prior to the ticking clock presented by Darkseid, if Batman failed to kill Superman, Lex simply bides his time and moves on to his next scheme. He doesn’t need to reveal his hand to Superman or make Superman fight under duress, he can leave those details to Batman.

However, once Doomsday becomes the endgame, it puts a shorter clock on all of Lex’s endeavors and he has to keep Batman and Superman occupied to give Doomsday time to develop. Otherwise, one or both of the heroes respond to the activity at the crash site and blackouts and stop Lex from completing Doomsday. Lex kidnaps Martha and Lois to compel Superman to fight and to distract the heroes from his endgame: unleashing Doomsday.

Once Doomsday is released, Lex’s mission is essentially accomplished and he doesn’t really care what happens afterwards. Whether Doomsday kills him, whether he gets caught, whether he gets caged, etc. Once he initiated Doomsday he knew he was caught. The crash site would be surrounded, his helicopters wouldn’t be allowed into its airspace, and all he could do is commune and wait for the authorities to arrive and arrest him. Whatever Lex learned gave him the conviction that was fine with him. Until we learn more, Doomsday is a satisfactory expression of his motivation because it exposes what the ultimate power on the planet would be like.

http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/lex-luthor-explained/

 

[Micromind]

In the movie Lex says "There was no god to save me from my father's fist" but when Doomsday attacks him we see Superman blocking the fist of Doomsday from attacking Lex.

Also, Lex constantly refers to Superman as god but when looks at a picture of angels vs demons, he says - "That should be upside down. We know better now, don't we? Devils don't come from hell beneath us. No, they come from the sky."

I think he is referring to Darkseid, not Superman.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Then Lex is an idiot. Not just bat-**** crazy, but an ignoramus.

He's worse than that, he's a ham-fisted plot device dragged out just about any time the film needs something to happen. Need to introduce kryptonite? Luthor. Reintroduce Zod? Luthor. Get Clark, Bruce and Diana together for the first time? Luthor. Get Superman and Batman together for the first time? Luthor. Get them to fight? Luthor? Introduce Doomsday? Luthor. Tease Darkseid? Luthor.

Even when they could have another character move the story forward, like the senate hearing room scene, it's ha ha, no, Luthor! It gets so bad (IMO of course) by the end that Terrio & Snyder all but hand Luthor a copy of the script with Superman's multiple rescues of Lois highlighted, demonstrating that she's not a real character but an ambulatory magic wand of Superman summoning. So he grabs her, tosses her off a skyscraper and hey presto! Superman appears!

Now all this might possibly work if we had any clear idea of Luthor's motivations, but we don't. Those are all over the place and make less and less sense as each new reason is rolled out. Again, by the end Terrio & Snyder just throw up their hands, quit trying to give an explanation and simply declare him coo-coo for cocoa puffs. It's a criminal waste of an iconic villain.

 

[Micromind]

It gets so bad (IMO of course) by the end that Terrio & Snyder all but hand Luthor a copy of the script with Superman's multiple rescues of Lois highlighted, demonstrating that she's not a real character but an ambulatory magic wand of Superman summoning. So he grabs her, tosses her off a skyscraper and hey presto! Superman appears!

Does Lex know Superman's secret identity ? Yes.

Has Superman saved Lois in past on multiple occasions ? Yes.

Do Clark Kent and Lois Lane work together in a newspaper ? Yes.

Do Clark & Lois live together in an apartment ? Yes.

So, is it a surprise that Superman will show up in Metropolis if Lex throws Lois from the rooftop ? No.