BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Joeyjojo72]

In the Snyder-verse, not only is it not a surprise, it's an absolute certainty.

The movie manages to be both predictable and absurd . Which is fairly common in lesser action/adventure films.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Does Lex know Superman's secret identity ? Yes.

And we know this how? When is him figuring it out shown? Oh, never mind, let's assume you're right and Lex knows Clark is Superman. This makes his actions even more incomprehensibly dumb. Lex wants to discredit Supes in the eyes of the world, right? That's why he sets up this whole Nairomi thing in which Superman gets blamed for a bunch of terrorists getting killed, right? Hey, I have an even better idea for discrediting Superman: tell the world he's Clark Kent! Hey everyone, this alien who destroyed Metropolis and killed thousands is now working secretly in the media! That's why the Planet is writing all those puff pieces on Superman! They're in his pocket! They're trying to make this menace into a hero! In the real world competing media outlets would pounce on a competitor like sharks over a scandal like that, politicians would harummph continually on TV and in the movie it would even play into Bruce's paranoia about Superman and provide him with even more actual motivation to fear and suspect Superman.

Instead Lex keeps the secret and builds an unstoppable monster because he's crazy pants. Sigh...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

No idea. Talking heads are a big feature in TDK Returns as well. It works and I see nothing wrong there. But because the RT is low everything about BvS sucks apparently.

This, so much this. The movie has issues, most people acknowledge that. But people on here are literally finding a problem with EVERY scene in the movie. Even when there aren't ones.

I saw in the MCU vs DCEU thread people were complaining that in the dream sequence PA Kent was telling Clark not to be a hero when this isnt the case at all.

The message of the scene was PA Kent telling Clark there are consequences to being a hero and Clark needs to find a way to live with the guilt of the ones he can't save. Lois was that way.

In the movie Lex says "There was no god to save me from my father's fist" but when Doomsday attacks him we see Superman blocking the fist of Doomsday from attacking Lex.

Also, Lex constantly refers to Superman as god but when looks at a picture of angels vs demons, he says - "That should be upside down. We know better now, don't we? Devils don't come from hell beneath us. No, they come from the sky."

I think he is referring to Darkseid, not Superman.

What interesting is that Doomsday when he is born comes up from the ground underneath Lex and Superman . Lex in his twisted way thinks Doomsday is a God created to save Earth from the devil's in the sky. But it ends up being quite different from that.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

You explaining it doesn't make his "plan" sound any less arbitrary or stupid. It is what it is.

 

[FunkMiller]

Anyone else realize that the start of Beautiful Lie is the Batman theme just slowed down?

I was quite disappointed with Zimmer's soundtrack. The WW theme was the standout, but the rest sounded like a constant dirge for an hour. Not really surprised Zimmer has said he's not doing an more superhero movies. Sounds like he's burned out on them.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I saw in the MCU vs DCEU thread people were complaining that in the dream sequence PA Kent was telling Clark not to be a hero when this isnt the case at all.

The message of the scene was PA Kent telling Clark there are consequences to being a hero and Clark needs to find a way to live with the guilt of the ones he can't save. Lois was that way.

Wow, some people actually think that? It seems as though the point of some parts of this movie may have been missed on some people. It would probably be best that they didn't engage in those kinds debates if they are missing/misunderstanding key points.

 

[Flint Marko]

I was quite disappointed with Zimmer's soundtrack. The WW theme was the standout, but the rest sounded like a constant dirge for an hour. Not really surprised Zimmer has said he's not doing an more superhero movies. Sounds like he's burned out on them.

Working on ASM 2 and then BvS has to be a soul-sucking experience.

You explaining it doesn't make his "plan" sound any less arbitrary or stupid. It is what it is.

No amount of explaining Lex is going to make anything about the character good.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think the "Martha" theme was actually quite good, too.

 

[Visualiza]

You explaining it doesn't make his "plan" sound any less arbitrary or stupid. It is what it is.

I don't even think that these explanations are entirely accurate, personally. I can also see that the good old "this movie flew over people's heads" argument has cropped up again, too. They can play that card, but they're resting on the shaky assumption that their interpretation of the film is the only valid one.

That's one of the many problems with Snyder; he's similar to those cooky, spiritual lifestyle gurus in that respect. He'll present an idea that's unfinished or unpolished, while his followers do their utmost to fill in the blanks and do all the intellectual (I use that term loosely) legwork.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think the "Martha" theme was actually quite good, too.

The Batman theme was awful. I know that was Junkie XL and not Zimmer though. Slow, ponderous and overwrought.

The TDK Batman theme was a lot more inspiring and emotive, especially the rising theme in Like A Dog Chasing Cars.

Also, why the hell wasn't the Man of Steel theme used? That was great piece of music, and it didn't get used once in BvS, not that I heard anyway.

 

[Micromind]

I don't even think that these explanations are entirely accurate, personally. I can also see that the good old "this movie flew over people's heads" argument has cropped up again, too. They can play that card, but they're resting on the shaky assumption that their interpretation of the film is the only valid one.

That's one of the many problems with Snyder; he's similar to those cooky, spiritual lifestyle gurus in that respect. He'll present an idea that's unfinished or unpolished, while his followers do their utmost to fill in the blanks and do all the intellectual (I use that term loosely) legwork.

^ So, the only movies you watch must be those movies where everything has been spoon fed to the audience, no need to read between the scenes.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

^ So, the only movies you watch must be those movies where everything has been spoon fed to the audience, no need to read between the scenes.

There's a complete difference between spoon feeding and poor film making.

Nobody should have to assume as much about a film as we do with BvS.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I actually loved Batman's theme. It's not Elfman or even Shirley Walker, but it's a lot better than TDKT's two note 'theme'.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I don't even remember Batman's theme....

 

[Jekecy]

I don't even remember Batman's theme....

I've genuinely been humming it for weeks on end at random parts of the day. It was nice having an indisputably-Batman score ringing in my ears again.

 

[Visualiza]

^ So, the only movies you watch must be those movies where everything has been spoon fed to the audience, no need to read between the scenes.

You were able to deduce all of that from my impression of one blockbuster, eh? You got me, though; just another unenlightened pleb that couldn't fathom BvS' brilliance. Matter of fact, I think we might need a support group at this point. Looks like you can read people about as well as you can read this movie.

It's as if some of you think that you're Plato with the allegory of the cave up in here. Ever stop to think that what you're reading into this movie might not be entirely accurate? Is there even the slightest possibility that people who feel differently than you do aren't simpletons? Isn't it an all-too-convenient coincidence that the only people intelligent enough to "get" this movie are the ones who happen to love it so much?

I know it gives you some sense of satisfaction to believe that there's something wrong with people who don't dig BvS, but it just isn't realistic.

 

[FunkMiller]

I actually loved Batman's theme. It's not Elfman or even Shirley Walker, but it's a lot better than TDKT's two note 'theme'.

Ah well, different horses for different courses. I like the two note, but my favourite part of The Dark Knight suite is, as I say, Like a Dog Chasing Cars, which I believe Zimmer himself considers to be the Batman 'theme' from his movies. This section just about makes me tear up every time I hear it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7S0Nttbh0&t=2m35s

 

[Sleiek]

Yeah I dug the Batman theme. Everytime the theme comes on, I get ready. For something badass.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Ah well, different horses for different courses. I like the two note, but my favourite part of The Dark Knight suite is, as I say, Like a Dog Chasing Cars, which I believe Zimmer himself considers to be the Batman 'theme' from his movies. This section just about makes me tear up every time I hear it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7S0Nttbh0&t=2m35s

How can a one off be considered a theme? As I recall, that suite only played in the Prewitt building scene.

This should be considered the Batman theme. it played over all the important moments.

[YT]oI_mDPIj4IA[/YT]

 

[steve4991]

The Martha moment was one of the best things about the film. If you don't understand how it's beyond a name coincidence that ends the fight, please don't comment. It sucked the life out of my body when that moment happened, because it's not only something I had never pieced together, but the understanding in how it relates to Batman's journey from childhood to the pending execution of a Superman was perfect.

Also, great connection someone made about Lex saying how god never saved him from his father's fist, and Superman blocked Doomsday's punch. Seriously, awesome insight.

 

[Sleiek]

The Martha moment was one of the best things about the film. If you don't understand how it's beyond a name coincidence that ends the fight, please don't comment. It sucked the life out of my body when that moment happened, because it's not only something I had never pieced together, but the understanding in how it relates to Batman's journey from childhood to the pending execution of a Superman was perfect.

Also, great connection someone made about Lex saying how god never saved him from his father's fist, and Superman blocked Doomsday's punch. Seriously, awesome insight.

Wow, I didn't realize that. WTF. I am learning something new everyday.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Wow, some people actually think that? It seems as though the point of some parts of this movie may have been missed on some people. It would probably be best that they didn't engage in those kinds debates if they are missing/misunderstanding key points.

Yep there was a page or 2 debating it in the Marvel vs DC thread. Plenty said that's what Pa Kent was saying in that scene when it clearly wasn't.

I don't think missed these things because they are dumb or the movie flew over their heads, but I think because of the critical reception many watched it wanting to see and picking out flaws. Sometimes when they weren't even there. I have seen other people post stuff about the movie about what they saw in a scene which just isn't what the scene was saying at all.

I just think people watched the movie looking for flaws instead of watching it with an open mind. That's up to them of course as they pay their money, but personally I watch a movie first and then pick out the flaws later while also picking out what was good. This movie had plent of flaws, but plenty of good moments as well and I just find people focus too much on the former.

All IMO of course.

The Martha moment was one of the best things about the film. If you don't understand how it's beyond a name coincidence that ends the fight, please don't comment. It sucked the life out of my body when that moment happened, because it's not only something I had never pieced together, but the understanding in how it relates to Batman's journey from childhood to the pending execution of a Superman was perfect.

Also, great connection someone made about Lex saying how god never saved him from his father's fist, and Superman blocked Doomsday's punch. Seriously, awesome insight.

 

[The Joker]

The Martha moment was one of the best things about the film.

Yeah that's why it's one of the most ridiculed and mocked parts of the movie. Because it's so "good".

If you don't understand how it's beyond a name coincidence that ends the fight, please don't comment.

Don't tell people what they can and cannot comment on. It was understood just fine. That's why it's so criticized.

It sucked the life out of my body when that moment happened, because it's not only something I had never pieced together, but the understanding in how it relates to Batman's journey from childhood to the pending execution of a Superman was perfect.

It sucked the life out of your body, while for most people it just sucked.

 

[shauner111]

I actually loved Batman's theme. It's not Elfman or even Shirley Walker, but it's a lot better than TDKT's two note 'theme'.

I liked it but I have to disagree. I've never really had a problem with any of the Batman themes though.

 

[steve4991]

Yeah that's why it's one of the most ridiculed and mocked parts of the movie. Because it's so "good".



Don't tell people what they can and cannot comment on. It was understood just fine. That's why it's so criticized.



It sucked the life out of your body, while for most people it just sucked.

Then can I ask your thoughts on why you think it was worth being ridiculed and mocked?