All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 4

[Iceman]

Considering the crazy amount of money Amazon Studios just threw down for the Middle-earth license, it's doubtful they'd be a potential buyer should Warner Bros. sell off the DC properties.

Netflix is losing MCU and Star Wars films next year when Disney's streaming service goes up, so unless they are content with their Defenders properties, they could be looking for a way to stay in the superhero game long-term and remain competitive with Disney. Having all of the DC properties under their roof would give them that and so much more. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they threw their name in the hat.

Then my dreams of a high-end Batman television series will come that much closer to fruition.

It's not all that crazy when you look at Amazon's crazy cash pile! Netflix's cash isn't comparable but I wonder how much the whole of DC would be worth nowadays.

 

[Boom]

Don't get me wrong. If I had a choice, I'd rather DC ended up with Amazon. They have much deeper pockets, so they'd have an easier time producing films with the same production value as those made by a major Hollywood studio like WB. There wouldn't need to be a compromise in scale or budget. And sure, $250 million is a drop in a bucket for them, so purchasing the Middle-earth TV license doesn't take them out of the running by default. I just wonder how quick they'll be to shell out another fortune for another IP when they haven't even gotten their first one off the ground yet.

It is worth noting, though, that Amazon purchased the television rights to Middle-earth, so they'll be making tv shows out of that IP. I suppose they could use Middle-earth as their television IP (their answer to GoT), and then use DC as their film IP.

 

[FunkMiller]

Your assessment of its vulnerability is based only on its past film performance, though, correct? I see what you're saying about reputation, and I won't argue that the DCEU films aside from SS and WW were not box office disappointments, but I believe each made a profit and, as is the case with MoS and BvS, they merely failed to reach very high expectations yet still made a decent amount. I'm not sure, all things considered, it would be wise for them to sacrifice all of DC. What do you feel would be the deciding factor?

Expediency, for the most part. I love me some DC, but it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things for an organisation like Time Warner. It's an easy loss for them, and is the kind of asset strip that would calm the nerves of investors should the merger fall apart. I doubt DC is worth any more than the 4 billion Disney paid for Marvel, and that isn't vast sums of money for this scale of corporate business. It'd really come down to a decision as to whether retaining DC was worth it for a company struggling after a failed merger or not. My gut says not.

Considering the crazy amount of money Amazon Studios just threw down for the Middle-earth license, it's doubtful they'd be a potential buyer should Warner Bros. sell off the DC properties.
.

Amazon have the cash to pay for DC once every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. And they are desperate for IP. I have no knowledge whatsoever about a specific interest in purchasing DC, but I can absolutely assure you that they are very, very keen on acquiring existing, popular IP to boost the content on the Amazon Video streaming platform.

If DC goes up for sale, Amazon are one of the most likely buyers, without a doubt.

 

[Boom]

Just keep it the **** away from Universal/Comcast and Paramount.

 

[Jekecy]

Amazon started out as a book company, so an entire comic book brand would still fit in with their original roots. I would love that integration, as a long-time Prime member. May actually boost DC sales with Amazon's marketing power behind it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Amazon started out as a book company, so an entire comic book brand would still fit in with their original roots. I would love that integration, as a long-time Prime member. May actually boost DC sales with Amazon's marketing power behind it.

There are so many positive variables with Amazon owning DC it's mind blowing.

You're absolutely right to say it would boost DC's comic sales. Graphic novel sales on Amazon would skyrocket as the Amazon algorithms would be more favourable to those titles.

I could see the CW shows being brought in house as well, and continued much the way they are now. Additionally, there's both room and money for a good half dozen other TV shows based on the lesser known characters. If you ever want a Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Zatanna or Swamp Thing series, pray Amazon get to own DC one day.

And of course Amazon Studios would leverage the big guns for the cinema. Amazon would have zero problem allowing all characters to cross between the TV streaming service and the cinema screens. You could conceivably have Superman and Batman TV series, with the movies being Justice League team ups.

It would be a live action comic universe even Disney would have trouble competing with. The integration across all media would be frickin' insane.

 

[Iceman]

Amazon started out as a book company, so an entire comic book brand would still fit in with their original roots. I would love that integration, as a long-time Prime member. May actually boost DC sales with Amazon's marketing power behind it.

Good point. It’d be great to able to access all D.C. comics (like Marvel Unlimited) on the Kindle App along with all my books.

 

[Boom]

DC landing at Amazon/Netflix is perhaps the only chance we'd have of seeing the extended Bat Family fleshed out in any meaningful capacity (live-action-wise). You're never going to get through Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, etc. if you're only ever limiting Batman to big-screen appearances every several years.

 

[Jekecy]

There are so many positive variables with Amazon owning DC it's mind blowing.

You're absolutely right to say it would boost DC's comic sales. Graphic novel sales on Amazon would skyrocket as the Amazon algorithms would be more favourable to those titles.

I could see the CW shows being brought in house as well, and continued much the way they are now. Additionally, there's both room and money for a good half dozen other TV shows based on the lesser known characters. If you ever want a Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Zatanna or Swamp Thing series, pray Amazon get to own DC one day.

And of course Amazon Studios would leverage the big guns for the cinema. Amazon would have zero problem allowing all characters to cross between the TV streaming service and the cinema screens. You could conceivably have Superman and Batman TV series, with the movies being Justice League team ups.

It would be a live action comic universe even Disney would have trouble competing with. The integration across all media would be frickin' insane.

My only concern is whether they can build a film division well equipped to handle such a huge roster of IPs. Their streaming branch alone is still fairly new and isn’t too huge of a competitor to Netflix (yet). Film is an even bigger hurdle for them, at least on the blockbuster front.

Good point. It’d be great to able to access all D.C. comics (like Marvel Unlimited) on the Kindle App along with all my books.

You can already link your Comixology account with Amazon, they got bought out a couple years back.

Amazon’s acquisition actually pushed me completely to digital library, as I’m very confident Amazon is one of the few companies who can stick around (in my lifetime anyway).

They recently put out the entire DC and Marvel catalog at 80-90% off over Christmas break. I bit the bullet and cleared out as much TPBs as I could. If anyone was curious how much it cost to buy almost all their current trades library at that discount…about $5,500 according to my credit card.

 

[FunkMiller]

Their streaming branch alone is still fairly new and isn’t too huge of a competitor to Netflix (yet).

There are far more Amazon Prime subscribers than Netflix, actually! Okay, they might not actually all watch Amazon Video, but the audience is potentially larger than Netflix.

 

[Iceman]

Don't get me wrong. If I had a choice, I'd rather DC ended up with Amazon. They have much deeper pockets, so they'd have an easier time producing films with the same production value as those made by a major Hollywood studio like WB. There wouldn't need to be a compromise in scale or budget. And sure, $250 million is a drop in a bucket for them, so purchasing the Middle-earth TV license doesn't take them out of the running by default. I just wonder how quick they'll be to shell out another fortune for another IP when they haven't even gotten their first one off the ground yet.

It is worth noting, though, that Amazon purchased the television rights to Middle-earth, so they'll be making tv shows out of that IP. I suppose they could use Middle-earth as their television IP (their answer to GoT), and then use DC as their film IP.

I think Netflix are totally capable and that film they made recently (Bright) seemed fine (at least not overly budget-restricted) and I've got sky-high hopes for the Witcher series. But yeah I want properties like this where I really care about production standards to go to someone who doesn't have to think twice when greenlighting budgets and Amazon recently overtook Microsoft on market cap so not likely to be too many issues on that front. Netflix would be totally fine too though.

On the other point, opportunities to acquire important IPs don't come around at times of their choosing so there's little value in waiting till they're up and running when they have the cash sitting there as there might be nothing worthwhile available for sale at that time. When assets are made available that is usually when you get a much better price.

I have Amazon Prime and I never use the streaming part as the content isn't competitive to me. It won't become competitive to me just by getting a couple of huge IPs. They could really benefit from something that can offer multiple franchises and DC can offer a ridiculous amount for both film and TV. I'm quite optimistic on where Amazon might be on this front when they've really got going and it looks like they are going places in the fantasy genre with the amount of rights they've picked up recently.

 

[Iceman]

You can already link your Comixology account with Amazon, they got bought out a couple years back.

Amazon’s acquisition actually pushed me completely to digital library, as I’m very confident Amazon is one of the few companies who can stick around (in my lifetime anyway).

They recently put out the entire DC and Marvel catalog at 80-90% off over Christmas break. I bit the bullet and cleared out as much TPBs as I could. If anyone was curious how much it cost to buy almost all their current trades library at that discount…about $5,500 according to my credit card.

Yeah, Amazon aren't going anywhere! 80-90% off? Wow. I really should have jumped on that.

 

[Iceman]

There are far more Amazon Prime subscribers than Netflix, actually! Okay, they might not actually all watch Amazon Video, but the audience is potentially larger than Netflix.

Yeah, I've been an Amazon Prime customer all these years just for the delivery benefits but I'd love to use the streaming if it had enough things I wanted (competing against cable and Netflix on my TV). I'd also love to use them for digital comics, a DC Unlimited for eg to go with my kindle book and audiobook collection.

 

[Jonwo]

It's insane that people think that DC will be sold, Batman alone makes a ton of money just from merchandise and licensing. The comics have seen a resurgence thanks to Rebirth and the TV side is ticking along nicely. One thing that studios like is familiar brands and DC with its library of characters offers that in spades and owning the characters outright means you benefit from everything outside of box office. From Warner Bros POV, they'd be losing a very valuable revenue stream which is why it's very unlikely DC will be sold off, it's more likely they'll sell CNN or one of the Turner channels.

 

[Juan1193]

Sign me up as someone who would like to see Amazon get their hands on DC! Preferably, with WB in tow, that way they also have a movie studio...

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I hope so. WB doesn't deserve DC.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

At this point, anything is possible. Honestly, why it would be sad to see them leave the WB family, I do think a company like Amazon or Netflix would do something cool with DC’s film properties. I also think Paramount/Viacom would be an interesting possibility, despite the doubts some have expressed with that studio as of late.

 

[FunkMiller]

It's insane that people think that DC will be sold, Batman alone makes a ton of money just from merchandise and licensing. The comics have seen a resurgence thanks to Rebirth and the TV side is ticking along nicely. One thing that studios like is familiar brands and DC with its library of characters offers that in spades and owning the characters outright means you benefit from everything outside of box office. From Warner Bros POV, they'd be losing a very valuable revenue stream which is why it's very unlikely DC will be sold off, it's more likely they'll sell CNN or one of the Turner channels.

Sorry dude, but this post shows something of a lack of understanding about big business. DC are a small part of Time Warner. If Time Warner feels that a sell off is necessary to appease investors, should the merger fall through, DC is a prime candidate right now for that sell off. If a company is financially struggling, it makes business sense to strip assets that aren’t perceived as being successful, and whether you like it or not, that’s DC right now. What I’m trying to say here is that any move TW would make if the merger falls through would be to make shareholders and investors happy, to stop them selling off.

And ‘getting rid’ of that company who made those movies everyone hated that lost a fortune, would be a good way of doing that. Ask yourself, if you ran a multi billion dollar company that required some restructuring and pull back due to a failed merger, wouldn’t you consider selling the company that just lost you well over 100 million dollars, is negatively looked upon by the general public, and is perceived as a bit of a joke in the media?

Also, finally, Time Warner may end up having no choice but to sell off assets like DC, whether it’s profitable or not. It all comes down to the shareholders and investors. They won’t care that DC Rebirth or The Flash are popular.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Considering the crazy amount of money Amazon Studios just threw down for the Middle-earth license, it's doubtful they'd be a potential buyer should Warner Bros. sell off the DC properties.

Netflix is losing MCU and Star Wars films next year when Disney's streaming service goes up, so unless they are content with their Defenders properties, they could be looking for a way to stay in the superhero game long-term and remain competitive with Disney. Having all of the DC properties under their roof would give them that and so much more. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they threw their name in the hat.

Then my dreams of a high-end Batman television series will come that much closer to fruition.

A quality tv series is honestly the best way to handle the Batman mythos. There's so much material, a movie series can never do it justice.

 

[Boy Scout]

I’d prefer Netflix snatch up the IP if it’s sold, but I’d eventually bite the bullet and pay for a Prime subscription if I hear good things about how they handle the properties.

 

[FunkMiller]

I’d prefer Netflix snatch up the IP if it’s sold, but I’d eventually bite the bullet and pay for a Prime subscription if I hear good things about how they handle the properties.

And that my friend, is why they’d buy it in a heartbeat. DC being owned by Amazon is good for millions of new subscriptions probably.

 

[misslane38]

Sorry dude, but this post shows something of a lack of understanding about big business. DC are a small part of Time Warner. If Time Warner feels that a sell off is necessary to appease investors, should the merger fall through, DC is a prime candidate right now for that sell off. If a company is financially struggling, it makes business sense to strip assets that aren’t perceived as being successful, and whether you like it or not, that’s DC right now. What I’m trying to say here is that any move TW would make if the merger falls through would be to make shareholders and investors happy, to stop them selling off.

I would think the reality, not the perception, would be more important when making such crucial decisions about selling, and I also think that since DC is more than just its films, the perception of its success would also have to consider everything else DC produces.

And ‘getting rid’ of that company who made those movies everyone hated that lost a fortune, would be a good way of doing that. Ask yourself, if you ran a multi billion dollar company that required some restructuring and pull back due to a failed merger, wouldn’t you consider selling the company that just lost you well over 100 million dollars, is negatively looked upon by the general public, and is perceived as a bit of a joke in the media?

DC is more than just a film company, so, again, its perception includes more than just how people feel about some of its films. Also, aside from JL, most of them made a decent profit. It wasn't as much as they had hoped, I'm sure, but things like MoS and BvS did make money. SS was a surprising success, and WW was a critical and financial boon for them.

Also, finally, Time Warner may end up having no choice but to sell off assets like DC, whether it’s profitable or not. It all comes down to the shareholders and investors. They won’t care that DC Rebirth or The Flash are popular.

If shareholders and investors, who presumably primarily care about money, decided to get rid of something that is generally profitable and has a lot of potential to be more so in the future both in film and other media, what would prompt them to make that decision? Does Time Warner have nothing else they could jettison? Is perception about one aspect of the company really that important? I mean, Siegel and Shuster, who created Superman, sold their rights to DC Comics, and they regretted it and battled it out in courts for awhile. This is not a decision to make lightly. If it sold to a streaming service like Netflix or Amazon, how does that impact the CW network and the production of Krypton (SyFy), Watchmen (HBO), Teen Titans, Metropolis, etc.?

 

[Boy Scout]

And that my friend, is why they’d buy it in a heartbeat. DC being owned by Amazon is good for millions of new subscriptions probably.

Oh, for sure.

I’d have a Prime subscription already if I weren’t so cheap. I’m doing my second free trial in 3 years and I haven’t even scratched the surface of what they offer. I do love 2-day delivery, though.

 

[FunkMiller]

I would think the reality, not the perception, would be more important when making such crucial decisions about selling, and I also think that since DC is more than just its films, the perception of its success would also have to consider everything else DC produces.

The stock market is driven by sentiment, not hard cash.

DC is more than just a film company, so, again, its perception includes more than just how people feel about some of its films. Also, aside from JL, most of them made a decent profit. It wasn't as much as they had hoped, I'm sure, but things like MoS and BvS did make money. SS was a surprising success, and WW was a critical and financial boon for them.

You’re only as good as your last film. And the last film pre this merger business was a massive failure.

If shareholders and investors, who presumably primarily care about money, decided to get rid of something that is generally profitable and has a lot of potential to be more so in the future both in film and other media, what would prompt them to make that decision? Does Time Warner have nothing else they could jettison? Is perception about one aspect of the company really that important? I mean, Siegel and Shuster, who created Superman, sold their rights to DC Comics, and they regretted it and battled it out in courts for awhile. This is not a decision to make lightly. If it sold to a streaming service like Netflix or Amazon, how does that impact the CW network and the production of Krypton (SyFy), Watchmen (HBO), Teen Titans, Metropolis, etc.?

If Time Warner fails to merge with AT&T, they’re in financial trouble. When large companies are in financial trouble, they shrink to compensate, even selling profitable arms of the company in the restructure.

DC Entertainment’s profits are nowhere near big enough to stop it being sold. It’s relatively tiny in the grand scheme of things, and easy to jettison if necessary. This is the most important point to remember.

I’d imagine Amazon would retain shows that performed well, and scupper those that don’t. They’d probably seek to bring it all in house though, as much as possible.

 

[MbJ]

I think how Shazam and Aquaman do will be important. If they can show the brand is still salvageable, that'll be good moving forward.