All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[Flint Marko]

While we're on the subject...where's the Hawkeye film?
How's that Sub Mariner film project doing? Is there going to be another Hulk solo?

Why did you bring up three movies that were never announced or even put into some sort of active development on any level?

A War Machine movie?

The only legitimate example you've brought up of Marvel moving forward on a project and then sitting on it.

And for the record they didn't announce the movie was in development, let alone attach a director or claim a release date..... they just commissioned a script.

How does that compare to WB/DC? See how you pretty much made our point for us?

Plans change sometimes.

"Sometimes"?

How many times does the plan have to change before you start to understand what's wrong here?

 

[Tg11]

To further build up the DCEU how I would do it:

1-Man of Steel
2- Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice
3- Suicide Squad
4- Wonder Woman
5- Justice League
6- Aquaman
7- Shazam (Phase 1 complete)

Phase 2

1- Wonder Woman 2
2- Suicide Squad 2
3- Green Lantern Corps
4- Flash
5- The Batman
6- Man of Steel 2
7- Justice League 2 (Phase 2 Complete)

So on and so forth from there onward

 

[Boom]

This is more of a commentary on the vibe I'm getting from around the internet in general (and not specific to any individuals here), but the sense of entitlement from DC fans is starting to wear very thin with me.

"Hey they've announced a couple of DC films in the works."
"OMG BUT WHERE IS THE MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL? HOW CAN THEY POSSIBLY MAKE ANY OF THESE MOVIES WITHOUT MAKING A MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL FIRST?! FAIL!!!"

"Hey they're making a Joker movie. Scorsese is producing and they're trying to land Joaquin Phoenix for the role."
"BUT THAT'S SO DUMB. WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE JOKER IN A BATMAN SOLO YET!! WHAT ABOUT THE SHARED UNIVERSE?!"

"Hey they're doing Birds of Prey."
"YEAH BUT NOW SUICIDE SQUAD 2 IS GETTING PUSHED OUT. OBVIOUSLY THAT MOVIE NEEDS TO COME OUT FIRST SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING?! SO STUPID!"

"Hey Steven Spielberg is directing Blackhawk."
"BUT SPIELBERG SHOULD BE DIRECTING SUPERMAN OR SOME OTHER MAINSTREAM PROPERTY THAT I JUST ASSUME HE'D BE INTERESTED IN! IT'S SUCH A WASTE SEEING ONE OF THE GREATEST DIRECTORS IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA TAKE ON A COMIC BOOK PROPERTY THAT HE'S GENUINELY PASSIONATE ABOUT!

"THEY NEED TO STOP ANNOUNCING SO MANY PROJECTS!!"
*Months of radio silence*
"OH MY GOD WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO TELL US WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON?!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THIS FIRST!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THAT FIRST!"

"THEY CAN'T DO THIS WITHOUT DOING THIS!"


Just, enough.

 

[Tg11]

DC they are trying to go the Black Panther intro route as far as introducing certain heroes into the universe before giving them their own solos; they are thinking of doing it to Barbara Gordon or Dick Grsyson

 

[Micromind]

This is more of a commentary on the vibe I'm getting from around the internet in general (and not specific to any individuals here), but the sense of entitlement from DC fans is starting to wear very thin with me.

"Hey they've announced a couple of DC films in the works."
"OMG BUT WHERE IS THE MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL? HOW CAN THEY POSSIBLY MAKE ANY OF THESE MOVIES WITHOUT MAKING A MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL FIRST?! FAIL!!!"

"Hey they're making a Joker movie. Scorsese is producing and they're trying to land Joaquin Phoenix for the role."
"BUT THAT'S SO DUMB. WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE JOKER IN A BATMAN SOLO YET!! WHAT ABOUT THE SHARED UNIVERSE?!"

"Hey they're doing Birds of Prey."
"YEAH BUT NOW SUICIDE SQUAD 2 IS GETTING PUSHED OUT. OBVIOUSLY THAT MOVIE NEEDS TO COME OUT FIRST SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING?! SO STUPID!"

"Hey Steven Spielberg is directing Blackhawk."
"BUT SPIELBERG SHOULD BE DIRECTING SUPERMAN OR SOME OTHER MAINSTREAM PROPERTY THAT I JUST ASSUME HE'D BE INTERESTED IN! IT'S SUCH A WASTE SEEING ONE OF THE GREATEST DIRECTORS IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA TAKE ON A COMIC BOOK PROPERTY THAT HE'S GENUINELY PASSIONATE ABOUT!

"THEY NEED TO STOP ANNOUNCING SO MANY PROJECTS!!"
*Months of radio silence*
"OH MY GOD WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO TELL US WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON?!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THIS FIRST!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THAT FIRST!"

"THEY CAN'T DO THIS WITHOUT DOING THIS!"


Just, enough.

This comes from a desire to see DCEU developed exactly in same manner MCU was developed.

 

[Rorschach2012]

This comes from a desire to see DCEU developed exactly in same manner MCU was developed.

Yeah we want to see them actually follow through with their plans instead of them announcing 20+ projects and making like 3 of them

 

[Flint Marko]

Yeah we want to see them actually follow through with their plans instead of them announcing 20+ projects and making like 3 of them

Exactly.

I'm not going to defend fandom and how petulant/whiny people can get on the more extreme side of things, but it's pretty easy to see why fans are unhappy.

It goes without saying that this would turn around when/if they start making better, more consistent films.

 

[Guts]

I was honestly confused for a second on why SS 2 would be delayed due to Birds of Prey. The first movie ended with Harley breaking out of Belle Reve. I see that she is attached to the sequel. So I guess it will be a foregone conclusion that Birds of Prey will end with her getting arrested and thrown back in Belle Reve.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I was honestly confused for a second on why SS 2 would be delayed due to Birds of Prey. The first movie ended with Harley breaking out of Belle Reve. I see that she is attached to the sequel. So I guess it will be a foregone conclusion that Birds of Prey will end with her getting arrested and thrown back in Belle Reve.

I don’t think they should pay much attention to the continuity of that awful movie.

What the hell are they going to do with Leto’s Joker though? If Ben is getting recast, then why not Joker too? I realize Ben probably wants to leave and Leto doesn’t, but Leto deserves to leave whether he wants to stay or not. It was a swing and a miss, he’ll find success in other roles.

I just feel like a Skwad sequel is a horrible idea. WB got really lucky the first time. They marketed the hell out of that turd, and the audiences didn’t catch on in time. From what I saw, the critical and audience reactions were both pretty bad. Maybe I’m overestimating the general audience, but I can’t see them falling for it twice. Maybe WB can turn it around and actually give us a good Suicide Squad movie. The source material is there already. There’s lots of potential. Just keep Ayer and Leto far away, and keep the threat grounded.

 

[Guts]

As part Waller's pitch she said that the next war would be fought with meta humans. Having a mystical villain is fine in Suicide Squad movie because stuff like that happens in the comics but what matters is the execution of it. But I think it would be better for the sequel if they take it in the direction that Waller mentioned for her pitch and put the squad in a war zone.

 

[The Guard]

Why did you bring up three movies that were never announced or even put into some sort of active development on any level?

Because I felt like it.

The only legitimate example you've brought up of Marvel moving forward on a project and then sitting on it.

And for the record they didn't announce the movie was in development, let alone attach a director or claim a release date..... they just commissioned a script.

I didn't realize we were going to be anal about comparisons. I was making the point that sometimes movies are announced as being in development and they don't pan out. Was that somehow unclear because they weren't films in the same level of development?

Not all of the DC films in development have been "officially" announced by WB, either.

But ok...something Marvel announced, etc...is the INHUMANS movie still coming out November 2018? Or did that evolve into something else entirely, because sometimes plans change?

How does that compare to WB/DC? See how you pretty much made our point for us?

I mean, I pointed out projects that Marvel was clearly interested in on some level at one time that didn't end up getting developed. The relationship should be pretty obvious.

Not sure what point you're referring to here. People have made different ones.

"Sometimes"?

Would you prefer "frequently"? I don't know what to tell you. This is the nature of business. Plans change and evolve and companies adapt to the market and the reception to their products. If they don't, they usually don't last.

How many times does the plan have to change before you start to understand what's wrong here?

2,973 times, Flint. The mathematical equation for shared universe success allows for exactly 2,973 plan changes before we must immediately lose all hope and condemn Warner Brothers for all eternity. Is there a point to this?

 

[Micromind]

I was honestly confused for a second on why SS 2 would be delayed due to Birds of Prey. The first movie ended with Harley breaking out of Belle Reve. I see that she is attached to the sequel. So I guess it will be a foregone conclusion that Birds of Prey will end with her getting arrested and thrown back in Belle Reve.

Continuity issues aside, there's no reason to delay SS 2. SS can have new characters too.

 

[The Guard]

I was honestly confused for a second on why SS 2 would be delayed due to Birds of Prey. The first movie ended with Harley breaking out of Belle Reve. I see that she is attached to the sequel. So I guess it will be a foregone conclusion that Birds of Prey will end with her getting arrested and thrown back in Belle Reve.

Keep in mind, it may not just be due to BIRDS OF PREY. Could have to do with say, The Rock's availability since he's rumored to be the villain, or any number of things.

 

[mclay18]

I hope J.A. Bayona is in the mix for a Superman sequel, seeing as he's a fan of the character. He finished JW:FK early and on budget (two months before release) -- and will be one the biggest films of the year.

I'm not just saying that because he Tweeted a positive response for Ready Player One, but he had some history with Warners before. The studio released The Orphanage under its Picturehouse banner in theaters in 2008, and New Line's home entertainment division released it on DVD and Blu-ray.

Maybe we'll see a Superman-related announcement sometime this month...

 

[Flint Marko]

I didn't realize we were going to be anal about comparisons. I was making the point that sometimes movies are announced as being in development and they don't pan out.

And you did so by bringing up movies that were never announced to be in development. It isn't "anal" to point out why that doesn't make sense.

I'm not interested in endlessly comparing Marvel and WB. It's been done. It's a boring conversation at this point.

You brought it up.

Is there a point to this?

If your "plan" is constantly changing and relies on throwing dozens, literally dozens, of things to a wall to see what sticks.... you don't really have a plan.

You can say that's just business as usual in Hollywood but it isn't. Not like this. Find me another franchise with that many projects in development hell, whose leadership has been restructured that many times, and has course-corrected and shifted gears on that many occasions. You won't.

I mean honestly, from one fan to another: doesn't that frustrate you? They have the most important, iconic superheroes at their disposal and look where they're at.

 

[The Guard]

And you did so by bringing up movies that were never announced to be in development. It isn't "anal" to point out why that doesn't make sense.

Several of those movies were announced to be in development, though. They weren't announced by the studio and given a release date, but they were announced, and they were discussed by the studio on multiple occassions. I think it's splitting hairs to say "Well, they weren't actually put on a 'slate board'. The concept at hand is the same...the movies were in some stage of development, and haven't happened despite that.

If your "plan" is constantly changing and relies on throwing dozens, literally dozens, of things to a wall to see what sticks.... you don't really have a plan.

This assumes that they are just throwing dozens of things at a wall to see what sticks. You have chosen to characterize it this way because their initial attempts have been unsuccessful, but WB has been clear about this being their plan for several years now. They have some great properties, and they want to develop them into film and television projects. I don't see the issue with that. I don't see why leveraging the properties you have has to be characterized in such a negative way.

They don't have to know how each project fits together with every single other project for this to be a valid approach.

You can say that's just business as usual in Hollywood but it isn't. Not like this.

The basic overview of the development process, where projects are announced, put into development, and some make it, and some don't? Sure it is.

In terms of this particular situation, it's not the norm in part probably because attempting to create this type and scale of shared franchise is still unusual and ambitious beyond what most studios have attempted. Fox, the other major studio trying something similar, is experiencing similar issues with its X-Men "shared franchise", albeit on a smaller scale, as they have fewer projects in development. But their attempts to move beyond the core X-Men movies have been mixed until recently, and there are serious perception issues with the development of GAMBIT, NEW MUTANTS, and rumors about problems with DEADPOOL 2.

Find me another franchise with that many projects in development hell, whose leadership has been restructured that many times, and has course-corrected and shifted gears on that many occasions. You won't.

I was only addressing the basic development process, not the leadership situation at WB.

I mean honestly, from one fan to another: doesn't that frustrate you? They have the most important, iconic superheroes at their disposal and look where they're at.

Yes, it frustrates me. It doesn't make me abandon all hope. I don't know what to tell you beyond that.

 

[Erzengel]

I think I've softened my annoyance at WB and maybe it's because of the realization that other Studios can't do what Disney/Marvel Studios does. That's not a knock against the other studios. I'm beginning to think that Disney/Marvel are actually the odd ones out when it came to their cinematic universe. Maybe the way that Fox and WB has multiple scripts, actors, directors, attached and dropped, etc., is the norm. But fans are spoiled because Marvel seems to do almost everything they plan on doing.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Marvel Studio's only have one thing to concentrate on (obviously, that's a plus), the studio's are not CBM specific, so much more is in the air, by way of juggling projects.

 

[Flint Marko]

Several of those movies were announced to be in development, though. They weren't announced by the studio and given a release date, but they were announced, and they were discussed by the studio on multiple occassions. I think it's splitting hairs to say "Well, they weren't actually put on a 'slate board'. The concept at hand is the same...the movies were in some stage of development, and haven't happened despite that.

There was never an announcement, from Marvel or elsewhere, that said Namor, Hulk 2, Hawkeye, or War Machine were in development.

This assumes that they are just throwing dozens of things at a wall to see what sticks. You have chosen to characterize it this way because their initial attempts have been unsuccessful, but WB has been clear about this being their plan from several years ago They have some great properties, and they want to develop them into film and television projects. I don't see the issue with that. I don't see what leveraging the properties you have has to be characterized in such a negative way.

They don't have to know how each project fits together with every single other project for this to be a valid approach.

I tried to make my last post concise so you wouldn't split it up and lose the forest for the trees per usual, but I should have known better.

WB's desire to make DC-related movies isn't a plan. And there's no better way to describe this "plan" than "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks". We all know that the majority of those movies are never going to get made. You can choose to look at it however you want, but as long as they keep firing movies into development that we'll never see, this perception isn't changing one bit.

You've also not addressed the fact that their plans have constantly changed. Not "sometimes", constantly. How can you say, like you have been for years, that "WB has a plan" when we've all watched them very publicly shuffle through plans and leaders and slates and potential projects numerous times over the past few years? They haven't had "a plan", they've seemingly had multiple, none of them have worked out, and they've been quickly abandoned. And all the while you're here telling us that there's a plan.

Is it a semantics game? Are you simply saying "there is a plan today"? Because if so, yes. They likely do have a plan today. Odds are it will be different tomorrow, but again... you're looking at the trees and not the forest.

It's totally fitting to look at their history and call them directionless and say they have no plan. You can argue otherwise but WB's track record and current behavior only hurts your case.

 

[The Guard]

Would you prefer large blocks of text?

Kay.

There were several announcements about various Marvel projects being in development. They were from news outlets and ocassionally from rumor sites, etc. Marvel often addressed the potential for these films. The initial news about these projects was not always from Marvel, but neither is every bit of news about a DC project in development coming straight from WB.

Making movies out of the characters you have absolutely is a plan, Flint. It's a very basic plan, it's not a DETAILED plan, and it may not be the information you want to know, though I don't know why anyone would expect to be in on the relatively secret details of a studio's development plan. WB does what almost every other studio does...they, or another source, announce that a project is in development, we hear about who is involved, and the creatives involved talk about the details when that project gets closer to reality.

You understand that I don't have to address everything you say. I'm bored with endless whining about the state of the DCEU. I don't see why I need to address or repeat the obvious, when every other poster here does. Plans have changed. I never said their plans haven't changed. Okay. So? It's not relevant to my initial argument, which is that sometimes projects that are in various stages of development don't work out. And I have little interest in discussing it. It bores me.

If you want to talk about other failures of the DCEU or WB, go right ahead. It often seems that a majority of your posts on the subject are an attempt to make fans of WB/DC heroes recognizre or admit how bad things have gone. Is that your goal here? Is there a reason we must all endlessly dwell on the negative?

A plan is a plan, and a major studio can't exist without one. I don't pretend to know every detail of their plan, or their plan for every film, and how it fits into their stable of DC Comics movies. I'm not privy to it, as I don't work at WB in the relevant departments. But assuming there isn't a plan for their films because you don't like the results of past attempts (plans that clearly existed, but didn't work out well) is just silly.

I'm not going to do the "having a plan that isn't successful means you never had an actual plan" conversation again. Been there, done that.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

This is more of a commentary on the vibe I'm getting from around the internet in general (and not specific to any individuals here), but the sense of entitlement from DC fans is starting to wear very thin with me.

"Hey they've announced a couple of DC films in the works."
"OMG BUT WHERE IS THE MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL? HOW CAN THEY POSSIBLY MAKE ANY OF THESE MOVIES WITHOUT MAKING A MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL FIRST?! FAIL!!!"

"Hey they're making a Joker movie. Scorsese is producing and they're trying to land Joaquin Phoenix for the role."
"BUT THAT'S SO DUMB. WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE JOKER IN A BATMAN SOLO YET!! WHAT ABOUT THE SHARED UNIVERSE?!"

"Hey they're doing Birds of Prey."
"YEAH BUT NOW SUICIDE SQUAD 2 IS GETTING PUSHED OUT. OBVIOUSLY THAT MOVIE NEEDS TO COME OUT FIRST SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING?! SO STUPID!"

"Hey Steven Spielberg is directing Blackhawk."
"BUT SPIELBERG SHOULD BE DIRECTING SUPERMAN OR SOME OTHER MAINSTREAM PROPERTY THAT I JUST ASSUME HE'D BE INTERESTED IN! IT'S SUCH A WASTE SEEING ONE OF THE GREATEST DIRECTORS IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA TAKE ON A COMIC BOOK PROPERTY THAT HE'S GENUINELY PASSIONATE ABOUT!

"THEY NEED TO STOP ANNOUNCING SO MANY PROJECTS!!"
*Months of radio silence*
"OH MY GOD WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO TELL US WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON?!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THIS FIRST!"

"THEY NEED TO DO THAT FIRST!"

"THEY CAN'T DO THIS WITHOUT DOING THIS!"


Just, enough.

 

[Flint Marko]

Would you prefer large blocks of text?

Kay.

There were several announcements about various Marvel projects being in development. They were from news outlets and ocassionally from rumor sites, etc. Marvel often addressed the potential for these films. They were not always from Marvel, but neither is every bit of news about a DC project in development coming straight from WB.

Making movies out of the characters you have absolutely is a plan, Flint. It's a very basic plan, it's not a DETAILED plan, and it may not be the information you want to know, though I don't know why anyone would expect to be in on the relatively secret details of a studio's development plan. WB does what almost every other studio does...they, or another source, announce that a project is in development, we hear about who is involved, and the creatives involved talk about the details when that project gets closer to reality.

I don't have to address everything you say. I'm bored with endless whining about the state of the DCEU. I don't see why I need to address the obvious, when every other poster here does. Plans have changed. I never said their plans haven't changed. Okay. So? It's not relevant to my basic argument, which is that sometimes projects that are in various stages of development don't work out.

If you want tl talk about other failures of the DCEU or WB, go right ahead. It often seems that a majority of your posts on the subject is an attempt to make fans of WB/DC heroes recognizre or admit how bad things have gone. Is that your goal here? Is there a reason we must all endlessly dwell on the negative?

I don't pretend to know every detail of their plan. I'm not privy to it, as I don't work at WB in the relevant departments. But assuming there isn't a plan for their films because you don't like the results of past attempts (plans that existed, but didn't work out) is just silly.

I'm not going to do the "having a plan that isn't successful means you never had an actual plan" conversation again. Been there, done that.

So it essentially is a semantics thing. I personally think that having a plan that is constantly changing means it is valid to say you never had a plan in any real sense of the word. If you disagree then we can leave it at that but forewarning, if WB keeps changing directions, be prepared to hear that said more and more.

The only "goal" here is to express my frustration with how WB has mismanaged wildly important characters. I've done so pretty consistently due in no small part to the fact that I basically felt this was coming for at least 5 years now. Watching something unfortunate happen to characters you like isn't easy, but watching it in slow motion knowing that it could be stopped is even less enjoyable. I can only hope that the growing pains are behind us because, yeah, I don't enjoy being so negative.

 

[Iceman]

When a company puts out a slate of films that really gets fans invested IMO. I would prefer if all the companies involved tried to do that/kept doing it, and I think most fans understand that things can get changed around for good reasons. But the DC slate has changed so much that it makes you worry about the thought processes of those making the decisions. They have consistently been too reactionary too late, turning tail and sailing in the opposite direction once the ship has crashed rather than making earlier changes to gradually steady the ship ahead of an obstacle that should have been seen (or at least sensed to some degree) ahead of time by guys earning a fortune to be good at what they do. Also I really liked the original slate. That was what I think needed to be done well to give the universe a perfect foundation.

 

[Iceman]

I think I've softened my annoyance at WB and maybe it's because of the realization that other Studios can't do what Disney/Marvel Studios does. That's not a knock against the other studios. I'm beginning to think that Disney/Marvel are actually the odd ones out when it came to their cinematic universe. Maybe the way that Fox and WB has multiple scripts, actors, directors, attached and dropped, etc., is the norm. But fans are spoiled because Marvel seems to do almost everything they plan on doing.

I don't believe that. The others have made glaring mistakes. I have no idea why the guys in charge get paid so much. In many other industries execs get the boot for this kind of thing, but they also know their industry and products much better in the first place. I'm guessing you wouldn't see a Tom Rothman, Amy Pascal or Tsujihara doing quite as well at an industrial or tech (non-entertainment, quite a few games company execs fall into the same boat ) company.

 

[Rorschach2012]

There was never an announcement, from Marvel or elsewhere, that said Namor, Hulk 2, Hawkeye, or War Machine were in development.



I tried to make my last post concise so you wouldn't split it up and lose the forest for the trees per usual, but I should have known better.

WB's desire to make DC-related movies isn't a plan. And there's no better way to describe this "plan" than "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks". We all know that the majority of those movies are never going to get made. You can choose to look at it however you want, but as long as they keep firing movies into development that we'll never see, this perception isn't changing one bit.

You've also not addressed the fact that their plans have constantly changed. Not "sometimes", constantly. How can you say, like you have been for years, that "WB has a plan" when we've all watched them very publicly shuffle through plans and leaders and slates and potential projects numerous times over the past few years? They haven't had "a plan", they've seemingly had multiple, none of them have worked out, and they've been quickly abandoned. And all the while you're here telling us that there's a plan.

Is it a semantics game? Are you simply saying "there is a plan today"? Because if so, yes. They likely do have a plan today. Odds are it will be different tomorrow, but again... you're looking at the trees and not the forest.

It's totally fitting to look at their history and call them directionless and say they have no plan. You can argue otherwise but WB's track record and current behavior only hurts your case.

With you 100% on this. I liked the way you described WB’s plan. It really does just consist of them throwing a bunch of **** at the wall and seeing what sticks.

It’s not unreasonable to expect WB to come close to the level of quality and commitment that Marvel has maintained. The DC library consists of so many amazing characters and stories that can provide enough material for a cinematic universe that’s just as good as, if not better than the MCU. For the most part, we’re getting Transformers level quality. And that franchise at least seems more organized and planned out.

I just expect more. The current level of quality is just not cutting it for me. Their plan of just seeing what sticks pretty much guarantees completely random levels of quality for each movie. With this plan, i think the successes will be more or less flukes. I wish they had a Feige, a regulator that ensures the quality of the slate. Instead, we get films shaped by a committee of out of touch execs that have no idea what fans want.