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All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

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Would you prefer large blocks of text?

Kay.

There were several announcements about various Marvel projects being in development. They were from news outlets and ocassionally from rumor sites, etc. Marvel often addressed the potential for these films. The initial news about these projects was not always from Marvel, but neither is every bit of news about a DC project in development coming straight from WB.

Making movies out of the characters you have absolutely is a plan, Flint. It's a very basic plan, it's not a DETAILED plan, and it may not be the information you want to know, though I don't know why anyone would expect to be in on the relatively secret details of a studio's development plan. WB does what almost every other studio does...they, or another source, announce that a project is in development, we hear about who is involved, and the creatives involved talk about the details when that project gets closer to reality.

You understand that I don't have to address everything you say. I'm bored with endless whining about the state of the DCEU. I don't see why I need to address or repeat the obvious, when every other poster here does. Plans have changed. I never said their plans haven't changed. Okay. So? It's not relevant to my initial argument, which is that sometimes projects that are in various stages of development don't work out. And I have little interest in discussing it. It bores me.

If you want to talk about other failures of the DCEU or WB, go right ahead. It often seems that a majority of your posts on the subject are an attempt to make fans of WB/DC heroes recognizre or admit how bad things have gone. Is that your goal here? Is there a reason we must all endlessly dwell on the negative?

A plan is a plan, and a major studio can't exist without one. I don't pretend to know every detail of their plan, or their plan for every film, and how it fits into their stable of DC Comics movies. I'm not privy to it, as I don't work at WB in the relevant departments. But assuming there isn't a plan for their films because you don't like the results of past attempts (plans that clearly existed, but didn't work out well) is just silly.

I'm not going to do the "having a plan that isn't successful means you never had an actual plan" conversation again. Been there, done that.

We both know there is no comparison between Marvel and DC when it comes to announcements. You’ve been here long enough to know that DC has been announcing movies left and right since Begins came out, and these movies never happen. Theyve announce their slates multiple times and the final output never even closely resembles what they announce. DC has announced so many movies and the percentage of movies they’ve actually made is so small compared to the announcements/movies made from Marvel. There’s no comparison.

It’s hard to get excited when DC announces movies because we’ve been ducked around so so so many times. It’s been the same old **** for 10+ years from WB. And when they finally do get around to making these movies, they’re almost always awful.

DC has the better characters, but Marvel has the better movies. I wish Disney would just buy DC. Maybe after the MCU wraps up, Feige could set his sights on DC. I can dream can’t I?

I’m a DC guy for life, but I can’t stay optimistic after being burned so many times. I’m hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

And also, throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks is a plan I guess. A sh***y plan, but a plan nonetheless.
 
I don't believe that. The others have made glaring mistakes. I have no idea why the guys in charge get paid so much. In many other industries execs get the boot for this kind of thing, but they also know their industry and products much better in the first place. I'm guessing you wouldn't see a Tom Rothman, Amy Pascal or Tsujihara doing quite as well at an industrial or tech (non-entertainment, quite a few games company execs fall into the same boat :csad:) company.

There's isn't a DC or Spider-Man or X-Men Studio. Sure they might have different management in charge of certain aspects or even franchises, but it's not close to what Marvel has.

If you just include Black Panther, Buena Vista for 2018 has outgrossed every other studio domestically and even if you include their movies that were released last year grossing into 2018.

My point, is maybe a separate Studio for comic book movies isn't financially doable for anyone except Marvel. So now we have a Studio who have to worry about not just their comic book movie slate but other movies for the year. WB averages 20-27 movies in the past few years.

And maybe it's just because of everything that WB/DCEU has done in the past few years, and their 20 something movies that they've announced that if a Studio like WB can't do it, maybe it isn't really simple.
 
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There's isn't a DC or Spider-Man or X-Men Studio. Sure they might have different management in charge of certain aspects or even franchises, but it's not close to what Marvel has.

If you just include Black Panther, Buena Vista for 2018 has outgrossed every other studio domestically and even if you include their movies that were released last year grossing into 2018.

My point, is maybe a separate Studio for comic book movies isn't financially doable for anyone except Marvel. So now we have a Studio who have to worry about not just their comic book movie slate but other movies for the year. WB averages 20-27 movies in the past few years.

And maybe it's just because of everything that WB/DCEU has done in the past few years, and their 20 something movies that they've announced that if a Studio like WB can't do it, maybe it isn't really simple.



You’re giving them way too much credit. It IS that simple. The animation side of DC has been doing great things for years. Those are the people that know how to make a cinematic universe work. The DCAU is far superior to anything the DCEU has put out. Many of the DCUAOM are far better than the DCEU movies
 
You’re giving them way too much credit. It IS that simple. The animation side of DC has been doing great things for years. Those are the people that know how to make a cinematic universe work. The DCAU is far superior to anything the DCEU has put out. Many of the DCUAOM are far better than the DCEU movies

Maybe I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, because if I think they actually can do it, and this is what we have would be kind of sad.
 
You’re giving them way too much credit. It IS that simple. The animation side of DC has been doing great things for years. Those are the people that know how to make a cinematic universe work. The DCAU is far superior to anything the DCEU has put out. Many of the DCUAOM are far better than the DCEU movies

Right. I feel that it works for animation because they can do more with the material. Isn't animation cheaper than live-action? Doesn't live-action have to deal with huge budgets in regards to casting, CG, live production, and contracts and all that stuff.

I can't see the studio doing Flashpoint like the animation department did. It have to be a live action stand-alone or super loosely based on the DCEU properties.

The writing and character depiction is solid, no doubt, in the animation department. Which is something I feel that the WB studios is desperately lacking. That's me opinion tho.
 
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More likely the reception to BVS killed an adaptation of Flashpoint like that. I don't ever see WB doing a movie where Wonder Woman commits flat-out genocide and then murders a small child in cold blood onscreen.
 
I could see an altered flashpoint. Doesn't have to copy the comics. But I doubt it'll get made.
 
Flashpoint, if it ever gets made, would be a 'in name only' type of film. There is no way WB are going to do a dark Wonder Woman after the BvS and WW. And if they do then they deserve every piece of **** that gets thrown at them.
 
Maybe I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, because if I think they actually can do it, and this is what we have would be kind of sad.

I don't know if they (or anyone else in Hollywood, for that matter) can actually maintain a cinematic universe that could reasonably compete with the MCU, but I know they can make better movies than BvS, SS, and JL. That's my main sticking point.

There were several announcements about various Marvel projects being in development. They were from news outlets and ocassionally from rumor sites, etc. Marvel often addressed the potential for these films. The initial news about these projects was not always from Marvel, but neither is every bit of news about a DC project in development coming straight from WB.

Meant to address this in my last post but OutOfBoose said it pretty well - you've been here long enough to know the world of difference between Marvel announcing a movie and DC announcing a movie. I mean now we're talking about rumors? You realize that basically every one of DC's potential projects are announced by them officially or are reported by the trades after they hire a screenwriter/producer/director? Again, there's a world of difference between that and a rumor. And even there the only rumor that ever made the rounds about the aforementioned Marvel projects was the Submariner about a year ago, which could still be in the cards for phase 4 as far as we know.
 
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The Plan - if there is indeed one - appears to be moving the DCEU away from a Justice League centered universe and towards a Bat Family focused franchise of franchises. The core DCEU narrative will likely revolve around Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, The Batman, Joker, Suicide Squad and Nightwing with Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam and Blackhawk stand alone installments. In this scenario the Bat Family would play a similar role to the Avengers in the MCU with the other franchises more loosely connected ala GOTG.
 
I don't know if they (or anyone else in Hollywood, for that matter) can actually maintain a cinematic universe that could reasonably compete with the MCU, but I know they can make better movies than BvS, SS, and JL. That's my main sticking point.

My point wasn't about quality just the whole interconnection, and overall supervision. Someone who doesn't have responsibilities of looking at a rom com and then the GL movie.
 
My point wasn't about quality just the whole interconnection, and overall supervision. Someone who doesn't have responsibilities of looking at a rom com and then the GL movie.

Ah, gotcha :up:
 
Meant to address this in my last post but OutOfBoose said it pretty well - you've been here long enough to know the world of difference between Marvel announcing a movie and DC announcing a movie. I mean now we're talking about rumors? You realize that basically every one of DC's potential projects are announced by them officially or are reported by the trades after they hire a screenwriter/producer/director? Again, there's a world of difference between that and a rumor. And even there the only rumor that ever made the rounds about the aforementioned Marvel projects was the Submariner about a year ago, which could still be in the cards for phase 4 as far as we know.

I never said "These two things are the same", so I don't understand your apparent need to point out the differences again and again.

The original comment I responded to amounted to "Where's that Cyborg movie?" THAT comment was made in response to statements that WB does, in fact, plan.

There was relatively no context given. Just a snarky comment about Cyborg. The basic implication is that WB announced a movie, and it didn't get made yet. So I responded to that. Kane didn't offer much, so I didn't offer much in return.

I didn't realize that in making a half-ass response to a question with little context that I was, in fact, required to contexualize my response so that anything we discuss from there on out is comparable in several respects and more or less the same.

I was never intending to compare them beat for beat. I even contexualized my statement in relation to the broader discussion that was going on and my own points, and made it clear why I was making the statement that I did. I made the point that projects get announced and then not made, and that sometimes plans change. That's it.

You then go on to say that it doesn't make sense, but it does make sense in the context I put it in when I said it. I never made a pound for pound comparison of the projects, their method and degree of announcements, exten of development, etc.

Now, if you want to move goalposts all day long to make a tired point and make the DCEU look bad in every instance you can...that's your decision, I guess.
 
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Nobody has to try to make the DCEU look bad. The films themselves, the constant reshuffling behind the scenes, and the constant announcement/cancellation cycle of their films speak volumes.

They have the potential to turn it all around, I hope this current team are up to the task because the DCEU desperately needs saving
 
I was never intending to compare them beat for beat. I even contexualized my statement in relation to the broader discussion that was going on and my own points, and made it clear why I was making the statement that I did. I made the point that projects get announced and then not made, and that sometimes plans change. That's it.

If you weren't intending to compare them beat for beat then why have you spent several posts laboring to make that comparison work? You tried but now you're trying to walk your way out of it.

Your original point is an intellectually dishonest attempt to defend the DCEU from valid criticisms. Their plans aren't sometimes changing, and they aren't sometimes announcing projects that aren't getting made - it's been a regular occurence for quite some time now and that is worth criticizing. It's fine if that doesn't bother you, but don't try to tell us that's normal. It's been years.
 
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So I ask all of you how would you fix the Justice League film? How would you make it better? How would you make this film better if you were in charge of writing/casting?

I wanna see the approaches you all would take

Which other heroes would you have joining the League? Instead of Steppenwolf who would you have as villain?

To build this shared universe of course I would have Darkseid show up but like Thanos he would show up not in the mid credits but in the post credits and the mid credits could be the Lex/Deathstroke scene
 
I'd have to think about what direction I'd take. Going the Darkseid/New God path does seem to be the most obvious choice but at this point I think it wasn't the right move to go with the league fighting an army of faceless aliens led by a crazy dude with horns who is obsessed with a box. We've seen that movie already.

I think they should have kept it more ground-level and just fought the legion of Doom. I know that's my starting point at least.
 
I'd have to think about what direction I'd take. Going the Darkseid/New God path does seem to be the most obvious choice but at this point I think it wasn't the right move to go with the league fighting an army of faceless aliens led by a crazy dude with horns who is obsessed with a box. We've seen that movie already.

I think they should have kept it more ground-level and just fought the legion of Doom. I know that's my starting point at least.

Where do you get off attacking Film Gob? WHERE?
 
If you weren't intending to compare them beat for beat then why have you spent several posts laboring to make that comparison work? You tried but now you're trying to walk your way out of it.

I've said that I never intended to directly compare them. I don’t know how much clearer than that I can be. I’m not trying to make a comparison that I never made work. You are trying to disprove a comparison that I never actually made, based on your own thoughts about the studios and your own biases, and your desire to use every conversation about the DCEU as a soapbox to complain about its execution.

Tried what? Came up short from what? A basic statement about some films that were once considered, and now aren’t happening at the moment?

What’s there to walk out of, exactly?

Your original point is an intellectually dishonest attempt to defend the DCEU from valid criticisms.

Except that my original point never addressed valid criticisms. My original point was barely even a point.

“What’s going on with the Cyborg movie” is not, in any sense, a complete and valid criticism, in any reasonable sense. Even in the context of this discussion, it’s simply a question.

Their plans aren't sometimes changing, and they aren't sometimes announcing projects that aren't getting made - it's a regular occurence and that is worth criticizing. It's fine if that doesn't bother you, but don't bury your head in the sand and try to tell us that's normal. No one is buying it and I don't think you do either.
I didn’t say the DCEU’s plans are sometimes changing, or put a value on it. I said “Sometimes plans change”. It refers to both DC and Marvel, other studios, and as I pointed out before, life in general. If you interpret that as “Sometimes DCEU’s plans change” and me putting some particular quantity on how much their plans have changed, that’s on you.

I have been speaking in a general context the entire time. My point has been about the general way that the movie industry tends to work, and the overreaction people have to WB also working that way. I’m not interested in quantifying the number of times things have changed, because the issue at hand was that changes have happened, period, not how often. THat's an entirely separate conversation.

But since you insist on dragging this out…

You're harping on "sometimes".

The definition of "sometimes" is "occasionally, rather than all of the time."

So actually, by definition, The DCEU’s plans would appear to change “sometimes”, because elements of their universe and its components change in a way that can be defined as “occasionally”, a word that has varied meanings and interpretations, and which is the criteria used when assessing what “sometimes” means.

(Cue, I assume, you telling the world what “occasionally” has to mean so you can continue to whine about the DCEU)

If you want to endlessly criticize, that's fine, but is a reason that every conversation about the DCEU needs to devolve into you moving goalposts until you can complain to someone else about the state of the DCEU? Why does MY conversation about a broad subject have to instantly become about YOUR desire or anyone else’s desire to endlessly complain?

I never said that DCEU announcing films with release dates and failing to deliver on that was “normal”, though I think we all know that things like release dates, directors and scripts changing does happen within the industry fairly often. Nor is that what they have done with most of their projects in development.

You and several others here seem to want to paint everything with a blanket statement of poor execution because you got burned on their original state, and ignore the fact that, aside from their "original slate" and THE BATMAN, WB has operated much the same way as other studios; announcing or letting info about films in development leak, and allowing some info about creators to come out, and directors when one is attached.
 
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You and several others here seem to want to paint everything with a blanket statement of poor execution because you got burned on their original state, and ignore the fact that, aside from their "original slate" and THE BATMAN, WB has operated much the same way as other studios; announcing or letting info about films in development leak, and allowing some info about creators to come out, and directors when one is attached.

And there it is. WB has not operated much the same way as other studios. On top of announcing way more movies in development than any other studio, most of which we all know we'll never see, they've been inconsistent, aimless, and reactionary with the DC stable for years now. You don't have to dislike the movies to see that.

It's clear that WB's plans for the DCEU can change every other month with an announcement of several new big movies in development that will likely go nowhere, and you'll argue against anyone who calls them aimless. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is my exit.
 
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So I ask all of you how would you fix the Justice League film? How would you make it better? How would you make this film better if you were in charge of writing/casting?

I wanna see the approaches you all would take

Which other heroes would you have joining the League? Instead of Steppenwolf who would you have as villain?

To build this shared universe of course I would have Darkseid show up but like Thanos he would show up not in the mid credits but in the post credits and the mid credits could be the Lex/Deathstroke scene

Are you asking for a Page 1 rewrite?

Because I don't see how you can fix this Justice League film without ignoring the previous movies and whatever footages WB was given by Snyder for this film.

They have to go back to formula and probably all the way back to Man of Steel to fix Justice League. It's a layered mess, honestly.
 
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apparently they got other scoops right

https://***********/UncleDJay/status/987889641599787009?s=19

https://***********/A256112/status/987894863973756928?s=19
 
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