All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[MbJ]

10 years ago, apart from Spider-Man and X-men, no other Marvel heroes came close to JL's members. Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg,... JL animated, Bat TAS, Teen Titans,... DC completely dominated on-screen.

It's crazy how the visionary genius Zack Snyder and WB has managed to ruin them.

Now, besides Batman and Superman, every superhero in MCU **** on the rest of JL.

Sad.

Less that imo and more that this was a wakeup call that you can only coast on your IP for so long before that ceases to be enough.

 

[COCOS]

10 years ago, apart from Spider-Man and X-men, no other Marvel heroes came close to JL's members. Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg,... JL animated, Bat TAS, Teen Titans,... DC completely dominated on-screen.

It's crazy how the visionary genius Zack Snyder and WB has managed to ruin them.

Now, besides Batman and Superman, every superhero in MCU **** on the rest of JL.

Sad.

its unfair to bring snyder into all this, since WB completely trashed his trilogy

WB is the reason why the dcu is in trouble, & its krazy that nobody was fired for all off this

All this started with Suicide Squad, a trailer company edited this movie, just because the reaction from the trailer with Queen Music was huge, ayer got 4 or 5 weeks to work on the script, which was terrible

DC problem is not the filmakers but the studio & the writers for all of them,the huge problem is the script/story, DC Movies doesnt feel Huge (except Wonder Woman) & important unlike marvel movies (specially the russos brothers one & black panther)

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Snyder doesn't get out of this without blame. His vision and approach to things were polarizing no matter which way you slice it. WB may be heavy handed studio thats genuinely lost on how to put together a successful universe who own the most iconic and popular heroes of all time, but snyder and the studio have to take blame.

 

[Micromind]

Snyder gets blame for Suicide Squad ?

Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut was the movie that Snyder had planned to release in theaters, who cut the run-time ?

Who made the decision to reduce JL's run-time to 2 hours ?

Who brought in Whedon ? Does Whedon get the blame for the mess that was Justice League ? Or just the Snyder ?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I blame WB for hiring the guy in the first place. They had every opportunity to can him after MOS and even BvS if they really wanted to.

You know what you’re getting with Snyder, it’s WB’s fault for bringing him in and continuing to let him work on these movies

 

[Johnglen]

10 years ago, apart from Spider-Man and X-men, no other Marvel heroes came close to JL's members. Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg,... JL animated, Bat TAS, Teen Titans,... DC completely dominated on-screen.

It's crazy how the visionary genius Zack Snyder and WB has managed to ruin them.

Now, besides Batman and Superman, every superhero in MCU **** on the rest of JL.

Sad.

I don’t get it , is this strictly a u.s thing that I don’t understand ? No other marvel character cane close to ....cyborg, flash, green lantern e.t.c. I mean what the hell are some of you even talking about ? Maybe it’s because I am not from the u.s but the only well known dc characters are Superman and Batman (not even Wonder Woman and box office results show this) while superheroes like hulk, captain America, Thor, iron man e.t.c were definately more well known.

Anyway we are at a year when films based on marvel properties (IW, BP,ANTW,D2, Venom) will gross over 5.5 billion in worldwide box office so this delusion about the popularity of dc characters must hurt even more.

 

[misslane38]

Even the actor who actually plays the character has expressed his desire to make something closer to what we all knew. That should tell you something.

I think Cavill is more just ready to do that after doing the work developing the character so he could be in that place. Snyder was interested in the so-called "generic" Superman, too, if by that one means "classic" (I think some were actually using it to mean "simple" but whatever). That said, I believe Snyder wanted that "generic" Superman to be something that was crafted and earned rather than something that just happens automatically in terms of developing a sense of identity, developing a healthier and wiser attitude toward setbacks, and developing a dynamic or relationship with a public that, if one was being realistic, would have some issues with an all-powerful alien in their midst. So, now that this work is complete and mostly was complete even by JL, of course Cavill was eager and happy to play it. It's what he and Snyder had been working towards all along.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Snyder gets blame for Suicide Squad ?

Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut was the movie that Snyder had planned to release in theaters, who cut the run-time ?

Who made the decision to reduce JL's run-time to 2 hours ?

Who brought in Whedon ? Does Whedon get the blame for the mess that was Justice League ? Or just the Snyder ?

So clearly you didn't read my post or you would've seen where I wrote "snyder and the studio have to take blame".

No Snyder isn't responsible for every screw up in the dceu. But he was driving force behind 3 of the 5 movies currently out. All of the movies he was most closely tied to were largely divisive movies that lacked in more ways than one, they were critically and financially underwhelming and he is partly responsible for that as are writers and producers. The studio as a whole takes the blame too though. Hell even Ayer admitted he was partly at fault for suicide squad.
The studio put their trust in guy who's vision for the grand cinematic story telling of the DC universe was not quite right.

And bringing up the BvS ultimate cut doesn't help anyone case. It was better than the theatrical cut, but was still a long, boring, dour movie who's plot is all over the place that still ended in a CGI s*** storm with the death of superman that felt hollow and forced.

 

[The Batman]

“Dont care for what they did with Cavill’s Superman? Clearly you just wanted something more generic.”

Classic.

The funny thing is, Cavill's Superman was ultimately your generic 21st Century film Superhero.

 

[FunkMiller]

As much as I hate to agree with BN, the idea that DC/WB should just stop making cinema films just because Marvel is better at it is a pretty bad idea. No offense.

None taken

I also walked it back a bit after Jeckecy made the good point that a solid way of doing things would be to combine the two.

...though I would keep the solo stories on the streaming platform, and only use the cinema for the big team ups.

It may seem like a strange strategy right now, but mark my words, streaming is the future, and WB/DC could place themselves in prime position if they have the stones to do it.

When you start reading about how streaming media is making more money than cinema (which you will) remember you heard it here first t:

The idea that any studio that isn't making as much money as another studio is should stop making films is just...absurd.

I'm talking about striking out in a new, bold direction that will potentially make a huge amount of money and be creatively stimulating, instead of following someone else in a well established and stifling industry... and doing a really poor job of it.

 

[Tg11]

What the problem is is that they didn't set up their universe properly because had they done that I think they would have been fine but personally they should have built up to Justice League rather than rushing it:

2013- Man of Steel
2014- The Batman (should have came out in this year)
2015- The Flash
2016- Green Lantern Corps, Aquaman
2017- Wonder Woman
2019 or 2020- Justice League

*2016 you can release GLC in like February of 2016; Aquaman then you can release it in August; Suicide Squad scrapped

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I blame WB for hiring the guy in the first place. They had every opportunity to can him after MOS and even BvS if they really wanted to.

You know what you’re getting with Snyder, it’s WB’s fault for bringing him in and continuing to let him work on these movies

Zack Snyder going to make a Zack Snyder movie

I remember going into MOS I was optimistic that he had a story by Nolan/Goyer fresh off the DKT. And also when Chris Terrio jumped in for BVS, and JL. Even Joss coming in for JL sounded good to me.

In the end the movies kept on getting mixed-negative reactions.

 

[Erzengel]

What the problem is is that they didn't set up their universe properly because had they done that I think they would have been fine but personally they should have built up to Justice League rather than rushing it:

2013- Man of Steel
2014- The Batman (should have came out in this year)
2015- The Flash
2016- Green Lantern Corps, Aquaman
2017- Wonder Woman
2019 or 2020- Justice League

*2016 you can release GLC in like February of 2016; Aquaman then you can release it in August; Suicide Squad scrapped

So you’d have a reboot of Batman, 2 years after TDKR?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I would've introduced the rebooted batman in JL. And I wouldn't have killed superman, I would've had superman cameo at the end of all of these movies bringing together the league because he knows he cant do it on his own. That way when a threat arrives they can kind of come together naturally and when the safety of Gotham is jeopardized batman joins on his terms.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

It's not a delusion. JL's member is much more famous than Iron Man, Cap before the MCU.

The biggest problem with DCEU is the way the build the universe. Do they seriously hope that throwing a bunch of well-known character without any development or solo movie into an integrated movie can bring postive reactions and emotion from the audiences ? I heard someone said that DCEU doesnt have to follow the MCU's path to build their universe. For feck sake I think this is the most inconsistent argument I've ever heard. The way MCU builded their universe is extremely standard. When starting making a universe, I'm sure 99% of people will plan to doing solo movies before releasing a big team-movie. What WB is doing, it's not diferent or creative; it's absurd and extremely frustrated.

 

[unholyrevenger]

The biggest problem with DCEU is the way the build the universe. Do they seriously hope that throwing a bunch of well-known character without any development or solo movie into an integrated movie can bring postive reactions and emotion from the audiences ?

It's worked for X-men, Seven Samurai and by extension Magnificent Seven, Oceans Eleven (og and remake), and lets not forget Guardians of the Galaxy, hell Deadpool 2 will be a team up movie by the looks of it and no one is going to complain about how Bedlam, Shatter Star, Domino, Peter and whoever else joins x-force aren't going to get their solo movie first.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

It's worked for X-men, Seven Samurai and by extension Magnificent Seven, Oceans Eleven (og and remake), and lets not forget Guardians of the Galaxy, hell Deadpool 2 will be a team up movie by the looks of it and no one is going to complain about how Bedlam, Shatter Star, Domino, Peter and whoever else joins x-force aren't going to get their solo movie first.

It's not analogous. Xmen has always been famous as a team rather than individuals member. Same for Guardians. We're talking about Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash.

 

[unholyrevenger]

It's not analogous. Xmen has always been famous as a team rather than individuals member. Same for Guardians. We're talking about Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash.

So because they're groups the individual members don't deserve their own Solo movies. Argument of Tradition isn't a valid argument. The fact of the matter is, if MoS, BvS and JL had been looked at as good no one would complain about the process of how WB got there.

 

[Erzengel]

Do we need a Mister Fantastic, Invisible Girl, Thing and Human Torch solo movies before the teamup?

But I do agree the way they did Avengers and if DCEU did their's differently would have worked.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

So because they're groups the individual members don't deserve their own Solo movies. Argument of Tradition isn't a valid argument. The fact of the matter is, if MoS, BvS and JL had been looked at as good no one would complain about the process of how WB got there.

I never said that they dont deserved. They can have their own solo movies but if they dont, it's fine.

While in Justice League's case, the core members are as famous as the team (Batman and Sup are even much more famous than JL) so it's important to give them proper developments first.

 

[unholyrevenger]

While in Justice League's case, the core members are as famous as the team (Batman and Sup are even much more famous than JL) so it's important to give them proper developments first.

You can have proper development for the characters with out giving them solo movies. You can make people care about all the characters within a single 2-2.5 hour movie.

If you can't believe there is no other good way beside the MCU way then DC is truly well and ****ed.

 

[Flemm]

Not the same thing necessarily.

Going with a "World's Finest" or Trinity film could have made sense.

I don't think that Batman needed another origin story, reboot, or solo film at that time. Wonder Woman's first appearance made an impact, even if there was a lot of negativity surrounding BvS overall.

The pieces were there. That's part of what made the whole thing frustrating to watch. Imagine something like the following:

World's Finest (with Wonder Woman cameo) ==> Wonder Woman origin ==> Trinity (with Flash and Aquaman cameos) ==> Flash movie ==> Aquaman movie ==> Justice League (with Cyborg and Green Lantern) ==> continue from there.

 

[Powerman34]

Frankly, I think Snyder gets a bad rap. Snyder was never able to make the movies he wanted to make. MOS probably came closest. You can't tell me that the decision to make a movie about Superman and Batman fighting wasn't a WB idea. Hiring Ben Affleck was a WB idea. Cancelling MOS 2 was a WB idea. Keeping the run time artificially short AT THE EDITING STAGE was a bad idea... Jesus guys, make the cuts on the script stage at least... At least look like you're actually trying.

Yeah, Snyder needs help developing his characters and creating real stakes.... but he had one hand tied behind his back. Working with WB on this franchise without having creative control was the worst thing that ever happened to Snyder's career. he may never make a big blockbuster again.

MOS started the DCEU in a great place. Its the first movie in all time that i watched at the theatres 4 times! Yeah in hindsight Zack probably should’ve let Zod live and worked where Clark could have threw him into the Phantom Zone portal right before it closed.
But Zack did say while was still shooting MOS and people were already asking him “what about Batman?” He said he wanted to get Superman’s house in order first and then something else down the line. WB should’ve left him alone with a proper MOS 2 AND THEN maybe a GLC movie to open up outer space ( and possibly explain why the Kryptoninans acted like they were the only ones traveling an ocean of stars and not bumping into no other aliens at all?)
Then a new Batman movie to show he is active in this universe for a few years and he is developing a satellite system (Brother Eye?) to keep an eye on the meta human phenomena which would lead into...
Wonder Woman just as the movie happened (maybe a stronger 3rd act ending and villians)
THEN go into a Batman b Superman movie where they initially clash sure but not the point of killing the other,just their ideology clashes (I would adapt part of the BTAS/STAS episode and the Man of Steel mid eighties comic book series meeting of the two where all though they are different as night and day Supes tells Bats that he will keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn’t blow for the rest of “us”

 

[Powerman34]

It's worked for X-men, Seven Samurai and by extension Magnificent Seven, Oceans Eleven (og and remake), and lets not forget Guardians of the Galaxy, hell Deadpool 2 will be a team up movie by the looks of it and no one is going to complain about how Bedlam, Shatter Star, Domino, Peter and whoever else joins x-force aren't going to get their solo movie first.

True but I think Nolan said it best when he was asked about linking the other heroes with his Batman; he said the DC characters are very different from the Marvel characters and I agree with this. DC heroes by and large are the Archetypes and the Marvel heroes are more johnny come lately and more cynical imho. Though it works for them

 

[Zarex]

Do we need a Mister Fantastic, Invisible Girl, Thing and Human Torch solo movies before the teamup?

But I do agree the way they did Avengers and if DCEU did their's differently would have worked.

The Fantastic Four isn't a superhero All Star Squad. Nor are the X-Men, the Suicide Squad or the Guardians of the Galaxy.

The Avengers and the Justice League ARE All Star Teams, and solo flicks ARE required to establish the characters and make their teaming up together a big honking deal.