All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[misslane38]

We can infer or expect that downplaying the connections between movies might open up new possibilities for A-list directors to get involved. Due to more freedom and increased creative control, basically.

I don't think we can infer that, especially since part of that implies that every A-lister feels the same way and that such connected films would have been all that was available during the more connected DCEU early stages and beyond, had things not shifted somewhat. In short, I'm not comfortable with what basically amounts to fallacious thinking.

I didn't use the "treasure chest" metaphor, but it's just a metaphor.

Metaphors have meaning. I know you didn't use it, but that was what inspired this discussion. I was only ever disputing this idea about the relationship between studio and filmmakers that put the onus on the studio for being open and accepting of top tier filmmakers to work on their treasured comic characters and properties based on these rumors and the announcement of Spielberg. His working on Blackhawk doesn't scream "DC treasure," and I'm much more inclined to believe that he felt encouraged to do that movie -- a movie he's wanted to make for decades -- because of the success of Wonder Woman, it's inclusion of somewhat related characters like Sameer, and his acquaintance with Patty Jenkins whom he sat down for an hour long panel discussion earlier this year. In other words, the dynamics at play are, to me, a lot more complex than a rush to do DC films because they're more loosely connected.

Not everything is an implied criticism of Snyder.

I know. I spoke of him because he's pretty much the most prominent DCEU filmmaker thus far, and therefore likely to be the inspiration for Nolan being asked the question he was and his response. I was less defending Snyder against criticism and more using the production process of his films to dispute the idea that creative control as a film was being developed was the problem.

For a while they focused heavily on the inter-connectivity, but now they are moving away from that.

Interconnectivity and a director getting to achieve his/her vision are not inevitably mutually exclusive. For example, with Snyder, the connected films were all his vision. He didn't have to connect with other filmmakers.

 

[MbJ]

Rumor about why Flashpoint was busted down to a solo Flash movie.

See, when a Flashpoint movie was conceived by those in charge of DC Entertainment last year, one of the covert reasons for turning the Flash movie into a time-traveling tale based on the epic comic book crossover event was so that they could retcon certain things. The studio, reacting to the backlash against Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, wanted to use Flashpoint in a way similar to how Fox used X-Men: Days of Future Past– to reset the franchise and write themselves out of a creative corner. Also, they were going to find a way to use the storyline to transition Affleck out of the role of Batman.

That was the running rumor, at least, or the Conventional Wisdom.

But ever since Walter Hamada took control of DC Entertainment, old plans have been getting reworked. He was brought in to shake things up, streamline the slate, and get the series back on track. Hamada’s apparent decision to make Ezra Miller’s next The Flash outing into a solo movie indicates he no longer wants to bother with a Reset Button; He’d rather just move on.

With that in mind, I’ve been hearing murmurs all over the place that the scrapping of Flashpoint would go hand-in-hand with the end of Affleck’s tenure as Batman. I’m sure that will dismay folks who’ve been reading into other rumors and attention shown to how Affleck is “getting back in shape” for- possibly- another Batman movie, but all I can say is this:

If Affleck does don the cowl again, which I think is incredibly unlikely at this point, it would now just be for a brief appearance in Suicide Squad 2 and definitely not in Matt Reeves’ The Batman.

Mind you, that’s just speculation on my part. The purpose of this report is merely to pass along the near-deafening rumors I’ve been hearing that Affleck is gone.

As usual, I’ll keep you posted on if I hear anything different or more solid later on. But this is the latest bochinche I can offer on this subject.

I've been saying from the beginning their interest in Flashpoint was almost certainly tied to the reception to Batman v. Superman, but I think just moving forward with a new take and forgetting the past is much simpler.

 

[Jekecy]

Flashpoint would've been semi-brilliant had JL fired and hit on all cylinders. At this point, a soft retcot is moot when no one even cares about the original iterations one bit. It's smart to just move on and try to make the best of what you can anew.

As for Ben...good riddance. What could've been the golden goose of the DCEU ended up being a dud and it doesn't help when he can't even try to be a bit of a cheerleader to keep hopes high. All I need is the press release so I can put this behind me.

 

[Flemm]

I don't think we can infer that, especially since part of that implies that every A-lister feels the same way and that such connected films would have been all that was available during the more connected DCEU early stages and beyond, had things not shifted somewhat.

My post did not imply those things.

In the same way that "shift in emphasis" does not imply anything like "strong restrictive ethos," the phrase "might open up new possibilities" doesn't imply anything absolute or categorical at all.

Downplaying inter-connectivity simply allows for more flexibility.

Example: adapting Flashpoint implies far more constraints than a solo Flash movie, story to be decided.

Reeves might have been less interested in making Batman movies if he could not choose his own Batman, have freedom to tell the type of story he wants, etc.

 

[jmc]

Scrapping Flashpoint might be the smartest decision they've made in years. A film where the primary purpose is to fix up the problems of other movies was always a dumb idea. This news is actually reassuring for Wonder Woman 2 because it probably means Jenkins has been told to not to worry about what came before and just do her thing. Shazam I could care less about.

 

[2kt09]

Example: adapting Flashpoint implies far more constraints than a solo Flash movie, story to be decided.

Making the main villain as this inescapable force & the premise being Barry eff'd up because of good intentions are reasonable constraints. The actual Flashpoint part is a treasure trove of possibilities.

 

[Flemm]

Making the main villain as this inescapable force & the premise being Barry eff'd up because of good intentions are reasonable constraints.

Are you saying that they should try to do a Flashpoint movie?

I'm not criticizing the story per se, but I agree with comments above that Justice League flopping completely rules it out. Unless they just want to discard large sums of money, for some reason.

 

[jmc]

A Flashpoint would have been nothing more than an in name only title.

 

[2kt09]

Are you saying that they should try to do a Flashpoint movie?

I'm not criticizing the story per se, but I agree with comments above that Justice League flopping completely rules it out. Unless they just want to discard large sums of money, for some reason.

I'm saying a Flashpoint adaptation is inherently more interesting than a Flash solo, especially with the writer-directors involved who could make something more worthwhile out of Flashpoint than a solo. The mistake would be scaling back to another banal story.

A Flashpoint would have been nothing more than an in name only title.

I'm not demanding every aspect of the story (that's unreasonable even by today's adaptations), just the main aspects that make it the BTTF of Flash stories.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm saying a Flashpoint adaptation is inherently more interesting than a Flash solo, especially with the writer-directors involved who could make something more worthwhile out of Flashpoint than a solo. The mistake would be scaling back to another banal story.

This makes no sense to me. It'd be similar to saying that Kraven's Last Hunt is inherently more interesting than a Spider-man solo, simply because you like that story a lot. There are plenty of things they can do with a solo Flash movie that would be way more interesting than Flashpoint, which, as we all knew, was a cheap way for them to give the DCEU a soft reboot.

 

[Boom]

Meanwhile I'm just over here waiting for Joaquin Phoenix to be confirmed.

 

[Micromind]

I feel the Original DCEU plan was to have a finite set of DC movies, unlike Marvel's continued saga. Flashpoint as a way of rebooting was always on cards.


Starting universe with mid forties Batman and killing Superman points towards that, of course they had to change their plans and this resulted in the mess we are in.

 

[Flint Marko]

I feel the Original DCEU plan was to have a finite set of DC movies, unlike Marvel's continued saga. Flashpoint as a way of rebooting was always on cards.


Starting universe with mid forties Batman and killing Superman points towards that, of course they had to change their plans and this resulted in the mess we are in.

That's actually a pretty good point. I always chalked that up to, like Moviebob said, WB/DC looking at the two most popular TPB's (Death of Superman, The Dark Knight Returns) and cramming them into one, but that's such an obviously wrong way to kickstart a cinematic universe that they might have already had an exit strategy. Who knows.

 

[2kt09]

This makes no sense to me. It'd be similar to saying that Kraven's Last Hunt is inherently more interesting than a Spider-man solo, simply because you like that story a lot. There are plenty of things they can do with a solo Flash movie that would be way more interesting than Flashpoint, which, as we all knew, was a cheap way for them to give the DCEU a soft reboot.

It's a cinematic event. It's also "Back to the Future" in a nutshell. It's doing what the show didn't get the chance to do because of creative or budgetary limitations. It establishes once again that The Flash is more than just really fast.
It's a story that puts The Flash in the center of the universe when otherwise his gimmick has him solve situations faster than people would be able to notice.
The kicker is no one beyond the speedsters notice that reality's changed.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's a cinematic event. It's also "Back to the Future" in a nutshell. It's doing what the show didn't get the chance to do because of creative or budgetary limitations. It establishes once again that The Flash is more just really fast.
It's a story that puts The Flash in the center of the universe when otherwise his gimmick has him solve situations faster than people would be able to notice.
The kicker is no one beyond the speedsters notice that reality's changed.

Right, I get that you like Flashpoint a lot but I still don't see how that it's "inherently more interesting" than any other possible solo story. That just strikes me as myopic.

I also don't agree that it's a good move for the Flash's first real cinematic outing. That feels like something that should be built up to.

 

[marcvader]

I'm happy Flashpoint was scrapped. Don't want to see the A Hole versions of our heroes just yet.

 

[Kane52630]

Don't want to see the A Hole versions of our heroes just yet.

I'm afraid you're already too late on that one.

 

[marcvader]

lol

 

[Boom]

I'm happy Flashpoint was scrapped. Don't want to see the A Hole versions of our heroes just yet.

Pretty much. You have an adulterous Aquaman, a murderous Wonder Woman, a psychotic and alcoholic Batman, a physically and mentally stunted Superman.

Can do without all of that for now.

 

[Rorschach2012]

This makes no sense to me. It'd be similar to saying that Kraven's Last Hunt is inherently more interesting than a Spider-man solo, simply because you like that story a lot. There are plenty of things they can do with a solo Flash movie that would be way more interesting than Flashpoint, which, as we all knew, was a cheap way for them to give the DCEU a soft reboot.

I don't know, the Flash tv show pretty much covered Flash's solo adventures, we've seen all of his major villains done pretty well in live action now. Some of the novelty has worn off.

Flashpoint is a huge storyline that the TV show could never do. That's why it feels more exciting than a simple Flash solo story

 

[marcvader]

I'd rather see something like Flashpoint as a culmination of a cinematic Flash trilogy.

 

[2kt09]

Right, I get that you like Flashpoint a lot but I still don't see how that it's "inherently more interesting" than any other possible solo story. That just strikes me as myopic.

I also don't agree that it's a good move for the Flash's first real cinematic outing. That feels like something that should be built up to.

In the same way an "Indiana Jones"-eque buddy cop adaptation of Throne of Atlantis is bound to be more interesting than the standard origin story.

Flashpoint separates his movie from the various Spider-Man-esque escapades.
It happens because Barry doesn't realize he messed up. In that same movie, they can spend enough time on his various relationships (a lot less compared to the show) before he wakes up one day with the world gone topsy turvy.
Put emphasis on how those relationships changed.
Reduce the superfluous cameos and keep it focused around the unlikely mentor helping him reclaim his powers so he can fix this.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'd rather see something like Flashpoint as a culmination of a cinematic Flash trilogy.

Movie 1: The Rogues
Movie 2: Gorilla Grodd
Movie 3: Reverse Flash and Flashpoint

I could see it

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't know, the Flash tv show pretty much covered Flash's solo adventures, we've seen all of his major villains done pretty well in live action now. Some of the novelty has worn off.

Flashpoint is a huge storyline that the TV show could never do. That's why it feels more exciting than a simple Flash solo story

Most people don't watch the Flash TV show, and the ones who do are all but guaranteed to go see a Flash movie anyways. There's a lot you can't do on a TV budget that a movie can, so rehashing familiar plotpoints and storylines isn't really that big of a deal when you consider how much better (and different) it will likely be on the big screen.

Part of the reason why the DCEU is in this current shape is due to WB/DC's desire to adapt as many major storylines/events as possible into their slate. I think making his first solo outing a Flashpoint movie was just more of that.

In the same way an "Indiana Jones"-eque buddy cop adaptation of Throne of Atlantis is bound to be more interesting than the standard origin story.

Flashpoint separates his movie from the various Spider-Man-esque escapades.
It happens because Barry doesn't realize he messed up. In that same movie, they can spend enough time on his various relationships (a lot less compared to the show) before he wakes up one day with the world gone topsy turvy.
Put emphasis on how those relationships changed.
Reduce the superfluous cameos and keep it focused around the unlikely mentor helping him reclaim his powers so he can fix this.

You can spend all day spelling out the merits of Flashpoint, you're missing my point. You seem to think that any other solo Flash movie is just going to be a "Spider-man-esque escapade" or comparable to a "standard origin story". Again, that's you being myopic and narrow-minded. You can like the Flashpoint arc all you'd like, but that doesn't mean there aren't other satisfying places for this first outing to go and like I and others have said, Flashpoint makes the most sense after you establish the character and his world.

 

[Erzengel]

If you're doing Flash 2, and it ends with Barry saving his mom and all is happy and good and he looks at the tv and it's WW3 between Wonder Woman and Aquaman, cliffhanger. I think that'd be great.

But that's a lot of storyline to go over so eliminating almost all the other characters and keeping it Atlanteans and Amazons makes the most sense. Even the presence of Superman is not needed outside of showing a scrawny Kal-El and Barry realizing he has to stop Zoom. And introducing a non Bruce Wayne Batman and you only really need to bring back Gal and Jason.