All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[DieSmiling]

Africa? So they're going with the "Birthright" origin?

That's been the speculation, but nobody knows for sure.

 

[Herolee10]

hell as long as they go with a "origin" story, then i'll be satisfied since we're in desperate need imho to see the origin story re-polished for the modern age.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think the suit texture/fitting was a bigger problem than Routh being too big and needing to slim back down in a hurry. It looked almost like a compression suit that not only took away muscle definition, but it also packed his muscle in tight and that took away from his size on camera.

But again, the suit itself didn't bother me aside from the dark maroon being in place of a strong shade of red. Other than that, I don't understant the hatred. Going in, I thought the suit needed to be modernized for the times and it did that. And I still believe the suit needs updated. Flame away, but if I were in charge of this film I would use the Superman X/Kell-El suit with the only change being the addition of a cape and possibly turning the shoulders and collar blue with the cape being the only must. Let the "I'm glad NotFadeAway isn't making this film" comments commence, but I don't care. The Reeve suit doesn't is more of a hinderance to a movie than a help. Yea, I get the whole arguement about Superman being timeless. But lets be real and put ourselves in the shoes of the general audience for a second. Some of the things we see as timless, the general audience looks at as being cheesy. That may be easier for me to say because I do pride myself on being a modern Superman fan, but say that my suit idea was followed through with. Just assume it. Many ways exist that can keep Superman timeless and that needs to be present in the movie. Thats what makes the character great and thats one of the reasons we need to introduce the 21st century to Superman. A cool, updated suit seems like a fair comprimise to me. That instantly wins over some of the dumbasses out there that don't care for Superman without being well versed in the story. This is smart strategy and marketing, regardless of how you feel about it. Yes, I'm talking to all the Amy Adams haters that happen to be upset a red head was cast and that being the only source of dislike. So if I put Superman in the Superman-X shirt or any other modern suit combined with a great movie story wise but then hate it because of the suit, you know those types are out there, then piss on you/them/anyone. Their is a reason Batman wears all black in the movies and not grey pajamas with black undies.

The point and laugh jerk inside me wants a modern suit to be used for the pure fact that whiney *****e fanboys will throw a fit and I can get a laugh. Same reason I want Adams to just go with her red hair as Lois instead of coloring it. So I can point and laugh. I'm a fanboy, I'm a Superman lover, I'm a geek like everyone else on the Hype. But damn, the pretentious attitudes of some of my peers is absurd enough that at times I'm ashamed to be one counted among them in a general census.

Love this post.

At the end of the day a movie's quality matters more than things like fedelity to the comicbook suit and Lois Lane's hair...eventhough I'd perfer if it were black.

I hate Singer's uncreative X-Men suits like no other (And no I didn't want Yellow Spandex but I didn't want boring black leather suits either) but that was the least of my problems regarding those films. For the record I hate the Burton/Nolan Batman suits too (and no I didn't want a suit exactly like in the comics and I don't mind it being black, I just hate that it looks cumbersome and the actors clearly can't move well in the them)

Funny enough I didn't dislike the suit in Superman Returns, I thought that it was just fine as a matter of fact. Maybe I was just happy that Singer didn't put Superman in drab black leather? Nah, I just thought that it looked like a Superman suit. I mean I guess the cape could have looked less Fruit Roll-uppy but thats about it.

 

[Herolee10]

IF my memory serves me correct, didn't Snyder say that we would see a picture of Cavill in the suit before they started filming? And given that they start doing so in August, would it be possible for a picture of Cavill in the suit to be shown at this year's comic con?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ I think it's more than likely, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

 

[Herolee10]

It still sucks that we have to wait till next Christmas to see this film. What I wouldn't give if this film could be released by next August or something.

 

[Doc Ock]

It still sucks that we have to wait till next Christmas to see this film. What I wouldn't give if this film could be released by next August or something.

Eh, I don't mind the wait! It will give it time to build up hype and stuff.

 

[demitri_vampiro]

i was thinking about the extent of superman's power. is there a limit to it? is he complitely indistructable or is there a possibility to create let's say such a powerfull explosion that would be able to kill him? would he survive the explosion of the sun?

this because on his own planet he wouldn't be able to fly, just like none of it's inhabitants. this was due to different gravitation on their home planet. but if during destruction of his home planet people would die just by falling of a big cliff, doesn't that mean that there is a force able to kill superman. i mean force is force.
also, if he can survive let's say the explosion of the earth and he is able to survive in space where there is no oxygen, then he would also be able to survive the explosion on his own planet, meaning that nobody on his homeplanet would actually die.

 

[elgaz]

I think you're missing the point of the different suns.

Krypton had a red sun, hence why none of the inhabitants there had 'powers'.

It was Superman's exposure to Earth's yellow sun that gave him his powers - his body is like a huge solar battery. It used to be written that when he was away from Earth's sun for any period of time, his powers started to slowly fade but there's been a few occasions in recent years where writers have depicted him as being at that power level indefinitely - i.e. he has had so much exposure to the yellow sun now that his powers can't fade.

Anything bad that could happen to him on Krypton really has no relevance on Earth, as under Krypton's sun originally he was just a normal humanoid.

 

[demitri_vampiro]

ok, thanks. that clears things up.

 

[elgaz]

I didn't really answer your question though lol.

On earth, can he be killed? It really depends what version of Superman you're chatting about. Some writers have had him be stunned by small rockets fired from helicopters ................. other writers have had him fly through the sun and nuclear explosions without a scratch. I think he can be stunned, but I doubt any explosion we know of could kill him.

We know that he can be killed - but it took a force like Doomsday, one of the strongest, fastest and most destructive creatures in the universe, to do it.

 

[DaJanksta]

I didn't really answer your question though lol.

On earth, can he be killed? It really depends what version of Superman you're chatting about. Some writers have had him be stunned by small rockets fired from helicopters ................. other writers have had him fly through the sun and nuclear explosions without a scratch. I think he can be stunned, but I doubt any explosion we know of could kill him.

We know that he can be killed - but it took a force like Doomsday, one of the strongest, fastest and most destructive creatures in the universe, to do it.

And I think that's the way it should be... but I'm sure another kryptonian could.

 

[Sam]

i was thinking about the extent of superman's power. is there a limit to it? is he complitely indistructable or is there a possibility to create let's say such a powerfull explosion that would be able to kill him? would he survive the explosion of the sun?

this because on his own planet he wouldn't be able to fly, just like none of it's inhabitants. this was due to different gravitation on their home planet. but if during destruction of his home planet people would die just by falling of a big cliff, doesn't that mean that there is a force able to kill superman. i mean force is force.
also, if he can survive let's say the explosion of the earth and he is able to survive in space where there is no oxygen, then he would also be able to survive the explosion on his own planet, meaning that nobody on his homeplanet would actually die.

And ppl still think that "everybody knows Superman", so an origin is totally unnecessary.

I know a lot of ppl who doesnt know where Superman powers come from!

 

[elgaz]

And I think that's the way it should be... but I'm sure another kryptonian could.

................. which is another bone of contention for me.

Superman has been on earth what, 30 years or so in most versions?

Yet if Zod shows up for just 24hrs, he's instantly on a par with Superman.

I think Superman's huge exposure to our yellow sun should make him more powerful than the average Kryptonian. Stronger, quicker, faster, more durable. The only edge Zod would have (and it's a big one) is his ruthlessness - guile and cunning. He can put Superman in situations where sheer strength won't be enough to get him out of them.

On the same note, I've never liked the fact that there may be other Kryptonians out there yet Superman is 'just another' one of them, all with equal powers under a yellow sun. It undermines how unique he is, and how often he's been portrayed as being much more powerful than many other contemporaries in the universe. If Kryptonians instantly became so powerful under a yellow sun, then it begs the question why - with all their technology, space travel, ability to travel to other dimensions like the Phantom Zone - they didn't send vast quantities of their people to somewhere with such a sun.

I prefer to think that it's Superman's long exposure to our sun that makes him special and not just like any other Kryptonian. Asides of course from his personality aspects and good nature.

 

[GreenKToo]

good point, and thats why they'll prolly be more than one villain.

 

[afan]

Anything bad that could happen to him on Krypton really has no relevance on Earth, as under Krypton's sun originally he was just a normal humanoid.

Depends on what detail you extract form the many tellings........

Kryptonians had been portrayed as a race of "natural" Supermen.......stronger, faster, healthier, and more durable than what one might define as a normal humanoid. This was granted by their advanced state of development, making them genetically superior. So if you pulled from that history and added the yellow sun's enhancement, even a "de-powered" Kryptonian is an amazing physical and mental specimen.

If Kryptonians instantly became so powerful under a yellow sun, then it begs the question why - with all their technology, space travel, ability to travel to other dimensions like the Phantom Zone - they didn't send vast quantities of their people to somewhere with such a sun.

I agree...but ......

Practically in order for Jor-el to send Kal-el off world Krypton should possess an advanced space travel technology.

My thought is that Kryptonians develop space travel using solar winds as propulsion, which allows travel only within their own system. Kryptonian astronomy is also aware of a worm hole outside of thier system, however the solar winds become so faint at the worm hole's location that travel to it is impossible given the technology. When Jor-el discovers Krypton's impending doom he proposes building ships that will use the shock wave of the exploding sun to propel them at speeds great enough to reach and enter the worm hole. Of course the rest is traditional; his theories are ridiculed, his Exodus plan rejected, and he ends up with the ability to save only his young son.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Eh, I don't mind the wait! It will give it time to build up hype and stuff.

Agreed, and i'm also sort of glad they aren't pushing it as a Summer Blockbuster. For some reason, winter films are allowed to be a bit more serious.

And ppl still think that "everybody knows Superman", so an origin is totally unnecessary.

I know a lot of ppl who doesnt know where Superman powers come from!

Pfft my entire circle of friends know shockingly little about Superman. Seriously.

When I said Kevin Costner was playing Jonathon Kent, I was met with 'Who?' Same for Zod.

If I said to anyone I know today, 'Where do Superman's powers come from?' I would bet they would all reply with 'he was born with them cause he's an alien.'

I would love a little bit in this film that explained the fact that it's the sun that gives Superman his powers.

It'd be hilarious if they showed Superman as a kid accidentally fart, like just let a huge ripe fart rip and that blast of massive kryptonian hot moist smelly air just blew half the tractors and other farm equipment several hundreds of meters away... it would make for a hilarious baby scene...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha... ha... ha..

Oh wait...

Didn't JJ Abrhams script allude to the idea of Super Smelly Poop?

Direct quote from his script:

Little Kal-El is set down on their bed. Jonathon watches closely as Martha starts to undo the babies diaper. She opens it, we CUT TO A SHOT LOOKING UP at the Kents. We stay here. The smell of that diaper is stupefying. Jonathon covers his face with his shirt - Martha's affected too, but she keeps her act together better.

Jonathon
Okay what in the lord's name is that?

I can't believe that movie nearly happened. I think i'd rather have the one with the thangarian snarebeast!

 

[elgaz]

Depends on what detail you extract form the many tellings........

Kryptonians had been portrayed as a race of "natural" Supermen.......stronger, faster, healthier, and more durable than what one might define as a normal humanoid. This was granted by their advanced state of development, making them genetically superior. So if you pulled from that history and added the yellow sun's enhancement, even a "de-powered" Kryptonian is an amazing physical and mental specimen.

Oh don't get me wrong, Kryptonians are definitely at the top of their game genetics-wise. In fact, I've a particular fondness for the stories which mark the House of El as representing the pinnacle of years of selective breeding and genetic development on Krypton. I've always thought it really helps to sell the whole 'alien civilisation' side of his background and widen the gulf between the average human and average Kryptonian. It also makes it easier to explain why - despite the fact his muscles rarely get used to their full extent on Earth - Kal El is a near perfect specimen physically; tall, muscular, handsome, intelligent, etc.

By 'normal' I meant on Krypton he may be tall and handsome, but he's as vulnerable as the rest of them - no superstrength, invulernability or heat vision there.

 

[afan]

If I said to anyone I know today, 'Where do Superman's powers come from?' I would bet they would all reply with 'he was born with them cause he's an alien.'

I would love a little bit in this film that explained the fact that it's the sun that gives Superman his powers.

Ya know..off the top of my head....I can't recall any such explanation in any of the films.

Even The classic opening of the George Reeves' TV series just says...".....came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Ya know..off the top of my head....I can't recall any such explanation in any of the films.

Even The classic opening of the George Reeves' TV series just says...".....came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."

I think the closest they have ever touch on it in the films was Superman Returns, when he flew up over the clouds and basked in the unfiltered sunlight in order to boost enough to lift a kryptonite continent...

...which actually, putting aside for a moment the fact that didn't make sense to me (*sigh* I just don't think he quite understood kryptonite), probably made absolutely no sense to someone who knew nothing more of Superman than the movies when they went in. They probably just thought it looked pretty....

 

[Lead Cenobite]

The first two Superman movies and Superman Returns make references to it. In Superman, Jor-El essentially says it's their dense molecular structure that gives them powers on Earth, then in Superman II, Zod says "the closer we come to an atmosphere with one sun, the yellow sun, the more our dense molecular structure gives us unlimited powers", whereas the reference to the red sun weakness is used in the depowering chamber. In Superman Returns, Lois mentions Superman getting his powers from the sun, and toward the end of the movie, after being rescued by Lois and Richard, Superman flies up above the clouds and absorbs direct sunlight.

 

[afan]

The first two Superman movies and Superman Returns make references to it. In Superman, Jor-El essentially says it's their dense molecular structure that gives them powers on Earth, then in Superman II, Zod says "the closer we come to an atmosphere with one sun, the yellow sun, the more our dense molecular structure gives us unlimited powers", whereas the reference to the red sun weakness is used in the depowering chamber. In Superman Returns, Lois mentions Superman getting his powers from the sun, and toward the end of the movie, after being rescued by Lois and Richard, Superman flies up above the clouds and absorbs direct sunlight.

Thanks...your absolutely correct about Superman II's explanation, forgot about that. However Jor-el's explanation in S:TM just mentions that Earth's "atmosphere" will sustain him(Kal-el).

 

[Lead Cenobite]

That's part of it, but he does mention the molecular structure bit too.

Lara: Why Earth, Jor-El? They're primitives, thousands of years behind us.
Jor-El: He will need that advantage to survive. Their atmosphere will sustain him.
Lara: He will defy their gravity.
Jor-El: He will look like one of them.
Lara: He won't be one of them.
Jor-El: No. His dense molecular structure will make him strong.
Lara: He will be odd. Different.
Jor-El: He will be fast. Virtually invulnerable.

 

[afan]

That's part of it, but he does mention the molecular structure bit too.

Lara: Why Earth, Jor-El? They're primitives, thousands of years behind us.
Jor-El: He will need that advantage to survive. Their atmosphere will sustain him.
Lara: He will defy their gravity.
Jor-El: He will look like one of them.
Lara: He won't be one of them.
Jor-El: No. His dense molecular structure will make him strong.
Lara: He will be odd. Different.
Jor-El: He will be fast. Virtually invulnerable.

All of the above....but to the un-informed nothing here says the abilities are only granted under a yellow sun. In fact this dialogue supports the idea that the abilities are inherent to him.

Thinking about all the marvelous moments of that film.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Yeah, true. I think since The Man of Steel, Superman getting his powers from the sun has become more well known. Before that, it was a cross between the sun and lesser gravity which was maybe a bit more confusing. I'm pretty sure it's been referenced in just about every show and movie since, except of course Superman IV. Although ironically, they gave Superman's power source to Nuclear Man.