All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

[Herolee10]

On a side note; I can't believe that filming will start within a matter of little over a month from now. After the disappointment in SR, the stalling in hearing news about its future from 2006-2008, and the mini development hell (as I see it) that took place from 2009-to 2011, we're finally going to see another superman movie take place.

I'm glad that I'm not in the generation that had to wait 20 years after S:IV (with a decade of proposals for a new film that never came to fruition) for a new superman film to unfold.

I just pray that MOS will FINALLY be the superman film that we've been all waiting for! GREAT STORY/STRONG CHARACTERIZATION/SUPERB ACTION/SUSPENSE/DRAMATIC MOMENTS/ACTUAL CHEMISTRY BETWEEN SUPERMAN AND LOIS!lol

 

[Ita-KalEl]

Despite all Superman is still Superman. I'm expecting a great success.

 

[craigdbfan]

MOS needs to at least be Batman Begins good for it to succeed.

That's the bar.

 

[Herolee10]

MOS needs to at least be Batman Begins good for it to succeed.

That's the bar.

Agreed; though I'm actually hoping that it does one better and achieves Iron Man 1 status.

With the controversial Reboot going around in DC, along with the court issues for the character, and how the last film failed to meet expectations, MOS is either DO or DIE for the character right now for the time being.

Superman needs to HAVE a HIT..it can't be medicore, it HAS to be a type of film that fans and the GA will leave the theaters with the feeling of wanting more immediately .

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'd rather begin with Krypton. Everybody knows that he is rocketed from a planet that explodes. It's as iconic as the Waynes deaths..

I'd rather start on Krypton too, but have Zod be the focus. However it is they are going to have Zod end up on earth, I think those events should happen as Krypton is about to die and baby Kal-el sent off into space. Have it all be one huge sequence of events that leads to the subsequent events of the film between Zod and Clark.

In my head, the opening sequence ends and Clark wakes up in Africa, on a little camp bed as though it was a nightmare.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Before we knew Zod was the villain I wanted to see a Brainiac drone attack the Kent farm and Clark fights him in q dream sequence and then he wakes up in Africa.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Why do we need to begin with Krypton?

We don't need to but it adds to Zod's character to explore why he is going to be a threat. Just have him be bad because he is bad isn't very good stroytelling. Something I really don't like about the Donner Superman films.

I think it might be more interesting if we follow Clark through his own discovery of his past. To me, a revelation like that doesn't have as much impact if we have already have seen (in the film itself) what the character is just finding out. Clark finding out he is an alien has more impact if we haven't seen Krypton or his parents before that than if we do. I want that discovery to be a completely life-changing experience for Clark Kent, so it needs that impact.

Okay, but that is just your opinion. I like the way the main bulk of Birthright begins and ends with Jor-El and Lara, and I want that to be mimicked in Man of Steel. Why does Clark's discovery of his heritage need to be a revelation to the audience? Everybody who saw Batman Begins knew the Waynes' were going to die and I didn't think it detracts from the drama of the scene.

 

[GreenKToo]

Agreed; though I'm actually hoping that it does one better and achieves Iron Man 1 status.

With the controversial Reboot going around in DC, along with the court issues for the character, and how the last film failed to meet expectations, MOS is either DO or DIE for the character right now for the time being.

Superman needs to HAVE a HIT..it can't be medicore, it HAS to be a type of film that fans and the GA will leave the theaters with the feeling of wanting more immediately .

I agree, and that will depend on the marketing first and foremost.
If the film is good, wom will kick in and it'll have legs, but you have to first get them in the seats to get good wom going.

I can really see them spending a ton of money on marketing for this. They're not stupid, they know they'll have to spend some serious $$$ on marketing. My only question is will they spend as much on it as they did GL..

 

[sf2]

MOS needs to at least be Batman Begins good for it to succeed.

That's the bar.

??? i thought BB did less than SR?

i think in WB's mind it must make at least 500m ww to warrant a sequel.

but... GL makes only this little, and they said they gonna go forward with the sequel... i don't believe them though.

 

[merced]

Agreed; though I'm actually hoping that it does one better and achieves Iron Man 1 status.

With the controversial Reboot going around in DC, along with the court issues for the character, and how the last film failed to meet expectations, MOS is either DO or DIE for the character right now for the time being.

Superman needs to HAVE a HIT..it can't be medicore, it HAS to be a type of film that fans and the GA will leave the theaters with the feeling of wanting more immediately .

No way IMO does MOS do anywhere near Ironman numbers.

It's going to be lucky if it does 250 million domestic.

I agree with mark millar's recent comments regarding Superman and the character not being able to be done successfully in modern cinema. As opposed to ironman or Batman.

the non-Batman DC characters just don’t seem to work in modern cinema and TV. I’ve loved these characters as far back as I remember, but whether it’s Wonder Woman or Superman or the Aquaman pilot or Catwoman or Jonah Hex or Birds of Prey or whatever… they just don’t seem to catch on in the modern world. I think it’s hard to compete with the new characters (or even the more recent Marvel characters, created a full generation later). Batman works because he’s more human for the big screen and more empathetic, but I fear The Flash and others would just meet the same fate as Green Lantern.

http://www.primaryignition.com/2011/06/28/mark-millar-comments-on-superhero-movies-dc-characters/

 

[GreenKToo]

I disagree with him...You have to have writers and a director that gets it, then a cast that fits the profile. You cant cast someone just because they are the current flavor of the month/year. Most importantly, the main character has to be filled by someone who embodies the character.
Bottom line..make a good film with a good crew, cast, and story, and it will be a hit.
No one wants to watch a crappy film, no matter what it is.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I don't think Superman falls into the same category as Flash or Aquaman. But I can see what he's saying.

I said the same thing about GL but I genuinely think it has a lot to do with the cartoons we've grown up with.

Superheroes are very popular in my generation, and I think that has a lot to do with what we grew up watching. And that was Spiderman and X-men most prominently, though I also remember Iron Man and Fantastic 4.

So it's no suprise to me that their films have been a success. The GA were already fans of it from their youth, without having to have been comics fanatics.

When I was younger I had never heard of Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman... It wasn't until I became a comic book fan that their names meant something to me.

 

[El Payaso]

??? i thought BB did less than SR?

It did. But I think he's talking about quality. I'm not sure though.

 

[Rev]

No way IMO does MOS do anywhere near Ironman numbers.

It's going to be lucky if it does 250 million domestic.

I agree with mark millar's recent comments regarding Superman and the character not being able to be done successfully in modern cinema. As opposed to ironman or Batman.

the non-Batman DC characters just don’t seem to work in modern cinema and TV. I’ve loved these characters as far back as I remember, but whether it’s Wonder Woman or Superman or the Aquaman pilot or Catwoman or Jonah Hex or Birds of Prey or whatever… they just don’t seem to catch on in the modern world. I think it’s hard to compete with the new characters (or even the more recent Marvel characters, created a full generation later). Batman works because he’s more human for the big screen and more empathetic, but I fear The Flash and others would just meet the same fate as Green Lantern.

http://www.primaryignition.com/2011/06/28/mark-millar-comments-on-superhero-movies-dc-characters/

Perhaps that is true because of the lame way they tried presenting these character to mainstream. As bad as some people think Smallville was, at least it kept the Superman mythos going for 10 years. I think Aquaman only failed because the CW did not man up and take a chance with it but felt that retooling old genres was the way to go. Catwoman and Jonah Hex were just lazy overall but still not as bad as Steel. If I had my way, WB should pay DC some big money anytime they utilize a character and it fails. I hear some people blaming DC but I wonder how much of a say they really have and if they do is more of just being a figure head type of thing and having no real clout at all. It almost seems that Marvel has more say in what goes on with their characters. I just hope that everyone involved with bringing forth new movies will learn a hard lesson from Green Lantern and put out quality and substance. If done right, people will come and see.

 

[merced]

It did. But I think he's talking about quality. I'm not sure though.

BB did 372 WW and SR 390 WW.

Difference is BB cost 150 million to make and SR 209 million (actually 225 million but WB got a tax break).

Other difference if SR did just so, so on DVD showing little interest in a sequel but BB did gangbusters and was one of the hottest DVDs at the time. The DVD success of BB is what insured a sequel - audiences wanted more. As I recall BB made 3 or 4 times more on DVD than did SR.

 

[Sabaoth]

Mark Millar wrote that DC characters such as Superman won't work because as films because, "They’re just too outrageous to provide tension in a live action format and I’d love to see them done, Pixar style, as brilliant, theatrical animated movies. "

That coming from a guy who submitted his own idea for a Superman movie to Warner which was summarily rejected.
And Marvel's Thor isn't outrageous?
Millar seems to have a selective memory.

No way IMO does MOS do anywhere near Ironman numbers.

It's going to be lucky if it does 250 million domestic.

I agree with mark millar's recent comments regarding Superman and the character not being able to be done successfully in modern cinema. As opposed to ironman or Batman.

I hope Man of Steel will do at least Iron Man numbers. With all the care and preparation the WB seems to be giving the project, I think it is reasonable to think they are aiming to hit this one out of the ballpark.

How can you say MOS will be "lucky if it does 250 million domestic"?

We don't even know what the plot of the movie is!

The real question is, do you want MOS to fail because you feel the creator's heirs were wronged?

 

[Superman2007]

As bad as some people think Smallville was, at least it kept the Superman mythos going for 10 years.

Not only that, people forget what a huge hit it was when it first started. It was a ratings juggernaut and landed terrific critical acclaim. What other Superman related commodity has gotten on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Smallville devolved into a mess, but initially it showed the story of Clark Kent/Superman in a fantastic way and proved the character is still compelling(beyond the comic) after all these years.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Agreed, I like the dark tone it initially had. Welling and Kreuk were never very strong (or written particularly well) but the versions of Lex and Pa Kent were the best to date, IMO. And John Glover as Lionel was great.

Too bad it eventually dissolved into sh**.

 

[Superman2007]

Agreed, I like the dark tone it initially had. Welling and Kreuk were never very strong (or written particularly well) but the versions of Lex and Pa Kent were the best to date, IMO. And John Glover as Lionel was great.

Too bad it eventually dissolved into sh**.

The show only had enough story for 3-4 brilliant seasons...but because it was so popular they just started stretching things out and ended up destroying all the characters they put in place. I always say the next Superman tv show needs to be on HBO, as a mini-series or have a maximum 4 season arc.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Noticed yesterday on Sideshow Collectibles website that they have a competition to win a trip to the premiere of MOS + $2500 to spend on collectibles. Obviously this is in concert with WB's, otherwise they wouldn't be able to guarantee tickets.

 

[SatEL]

No way IMO does MOS do anywhere near Ironman numbers.

It's going to be lucky if it does 250 million domestic.

I agree with mark millar's recent comments regarding Superman and the character not being able to be done successfully in modern cinema. As opposed to ironman or Batman.

the non-Batman DC characters just don’t seem to work in modern cinema and TV. I’ve loved these characters as far back as I remember, but whether it’s Wonder Woman or Superman or the Aquaman pilot or Catwoman or Jonah Hex or Birds of Prey or whatever… they just don’t seem to catch on in the modern world. I think it’s hard to compete with the new characters (or even the more recent Marvel characters, created a full generation later). Batman works because he’s more human for the big screen and more empathetic, but I fear The Flash and others would just meet the same fate as Green Lantern.

http://www.primaryignition.com/2011/06/28/mark-millar-comments-on-superhero-movies-dc-characters/

No one should listen to Millar dude is full of ****, and has his own agenda. Cant stand the dude anymore I swear these days he only makes comics in the hopes of turning them into movies or tv shows. Also its funny he feels this way because it wasn’t that long ago he was clamouring to be involved in the next Superman film.

 

[SatEL]

Perhaps that is true because of the lame way they tried presenting these character to mainstream. As bad as some people think Smallville was, at least it kept the Superman mythos going for 10 years. I think Aquaman only failed because the CW did not man up and take a chance with it but felt that retooling old genres was the way to go. Catwoman and Jonah Hex were just lazy overall but still not as bad as Steel. If I had my way, WB should pay DC some big money anytime they utilize a character and it fails. I hear some people blaming DC but I wonder how much of a say they really have and if they do is more of just being a figure head type of thing and having no real clout at all. It almost seems that Marvel has more say in what goes on with their characters. I just hope that everyone involved with bringing forth new movies will learn a hard lesson from Green Lantern and put out quality and substance. If done right, people will come and see.

They never learn which is why Marvel is always going to be ahead, and please before anyone names Batman that was mere luck on their part for getting Nolan. The same words have been echoed time and time again by people but WB just seems to **** up.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Not only that, people forget what a huge hit it was when it first started. It was a ratings juggernaut and landed terrific critical acclaim. What other Superman related commodity has gotten on the cover of Rolling Stone?

Smallville devolved into a mess, but initially it showed the story of Clark Kent/Superman in a fantastic way and proved the character is still compelling(beyond the comic) after all these years.

I think that pretty much describes what was inherently wrong with the show. Hard bodies, teen lust, super models?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I think that pretty much describes what was inherently wrong with the show. Hard bodies, teen lust, super models?

That's what most people think of when they think "Superman".

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Thanks to shows like Lois and Clark and Smallville. When are we gonna get a live action Superman show that's not trying to win audiences over with models and sexual tension?