All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 30

[Trinity]

The MTV Movie Awards are on April 14th. Do you think Henry & Amy will be there to present a new trailer or a clip from the movie?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And they'll be more excited when you post about the film when it's opening in a couple of weeks, not months away

It's good that people know about MoS and get excited, but it's much more important to get them excited in the right time.

You can do both. You can build anticipation while also going into overdrive in the home stretch.

It reminds me of GoT. The last two season have had far later, more concentrated marketing campaigns, but the first season had months and months of legit material. They actually went out of their way to sell the show, to earn your attention. I remember getting people to watch the original 11 min video. It got people excited well before the release and they told others to check it out.

Those saying it cost too much money to put up a vlog on youtube or release pictures are just excusing it. These will be the first to blame marketing or worse the audience if this film is terrific but doesn't set the world on fire. June has plenty of selections.

 

[Poni_Boy]

are you SURE about that???

Am I sure that large action set pieces at night don't have the visibility of large action set pieces that take place during day time?

Yes, I'm sure of that. Go watch The Avengers or Lord of the Rings and picture the battle scenes at night. Don't impresses as much because you lose depth and scope.

I'm pretty sure Superman's red laser eye blasts would look better during day time when they won't blot out the ambient environment. Again, depth and scope.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The MTV Movie Awards are on April 14th. Do you think Henry & Amy will be there to present a new trailer or a clip from the movie?

Considering they've spent big money promoting every DC superhero movie there, yes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Am I sure that large action set pieces at night don't have the visibility of large action set pieces that take place during day time?

Yes, I'm sure of that. Go watch The Avengers or Lord of the Rings and picture the battle scenes at night. Don't impresses as much because you lose depth and scope.

I'm pretty sure Superman's red laser eye blasts would look better during day time when they won't blot out the ambient environment. Again, depth and scope.

Helm Deep and the Mines of Moria are the two best action sequence in LOTR. One is set underground in darkness, the other is at night. t:

 

[DoomsdayApex]

As a fan of both, I have spent more then one Sat. night watching both.

It'll happen, but The UFC and Boxing haven't precisely competed with one another with their top grossing cards. When Mayweather or Pacquiao fight, The UFC pulls out a mid-level card (Cro-Cop vs JDS), and when a GSP or Anderson Silva card is afoot Boxing pulls out a mild main event (likely an up and riser vs a no-name).

 

[Poni_Boy]

You can do both. You can build anticipation while also going into overdrive in the home stretch.

It reminds me of GoT. The last two season have had far later, more concentrated marketing campaigns, but the first season had months and months of legit material. They actually went out of their way to sell the show, to earn your attention. I remember getting people to watch the original 11 min video. It got people excited well before the release and they told others to check it out.

Those saying it cost too much money to put up a vlog on youtube or release pictures are just excusing it. These will be the first to blame marketing or worse the audience if this film is terrific but doesn't set the world on fire. June has plenty of selections.

It cost two to three times less to market GOT last season, and it had bigger ratings than season one. Same thing happened with The Walking Dead. You know why? Season one was an unfamiliar property that NEEDED a ton of marketing to make people aware it exists.

Superman doesn't need that. He's the world's most well known superhero. That's why they're marketing this movie the same way they marketed Batman Begins.

Marketing costs money. I don't understand how people don't realize that. Even producing a still costs money. You need the photographer, editor, marketing people and director involved at a minimum. Who's gonna pay for that when it's too far in advance to help generate box office receipts?

TDK had a much smaller marketing budget than Green Lantern. Proving quality of the film sells a property much better than oversaturating the market with relentless promo materials.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Helm Deep and the Mines of Moria are the two best action sequence in LOTR. One is set underground in darkness, the other is at night. t:

When you have 7 major battle scenes across three movies you have to alternate their settings. But did the biggest battle from the last film take place at night? Nope. Would have lost scope and depth.

Is it really up for debate whether a large scale looks bigger during the day or at night? That's rather silly

FYI Helm's Deep was during day and night.

 

[mohoo]

When talking about films like BB (2005) or SR (2006), we need to remember the huge difference between the social media now and then.

There was no Twitter, Facebook didn't have 10 million users (now more than a billion), and YouTube views per day were less than 100 million (now more than 4 billion)

The same marketing campaign in 2005 will have a much different outcome if it happened in 2013.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It'll happen, but The UFC and Boxing haven't precisely competed with one another with their top grossing cards. When Mayweather or Pacquiao fight, The UFC pulls out a mid-level card (Cro-Cop vs JDS), and when a GSP or Anderson Silva card is afoot Boxing pulls out a mild main event (likely an up and riser vs a no-name).

But not really. Mayweather doesn't fight often anymore. Manny fights on traditional boxing dates. Mayweather and Manny have never been programmed around the UFC. They are just too big of draws.

 

[JimJimBinks]

It cost two to three times less to market GOT last season, and it had bigger ratings than season one. Same thing happened with The Walking Dead. You know why? Season one was an unfamiliar property that NEEDED a ton of marketing to make people aware it exists.

Superman doesn't need that. He's the world's most well known superhero. That's why they're marketing this movie the same way they marketed Batman Begins.

Marketing costs money. I don't understand how people don't realize that. Even producing a still costs money. You need the photographer, editor, marketing people and director involved at a minimum. Who's gonna pay for that when it's too far in advance to help generate box office receipts?

TDK had a much smaller marketing budget than Green Lantern. Proving quality of the film sells a property much better than oversaturating the market with relentless promo materials.

This is the problem. WB tried that approach to Superman Returns and it failed. Superman is a recognizable superhero but you can't just throw the S logo out there in a 1 month blitz and expect the movie to make $200 million. I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but they haven't given much of an indication that they are trying something different than what failed in 2006.

 

[Poni_Boy]

When talking about films like BB (2005) or SR (2006), we need to remember the huge difference between the social media now and then.

There was no Twitter, Facebook didn't have 10 million users (now more than a billion), and YouTube views per day were less than 100 million (now more than 4 billion)

The same marketing campaign in 2005 will have a much different outcome if it happened in 2013.

Great points. And don't forget most important factor that addresses these complaints: You don't oversell a product (i.e. MOS) to someone who's already gonna buy it (i.e. fans)

 

[The Shield]

Just a reminder...

100 MORE DAYS!

That is all.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Am I sure that large action set pieces at night don't have the visibility of large action set pieces that take place during day time?

Yes, I'm sure of that. Go watch The Avengers or Lord of the Rings and picture the battle scenes at night. Don't impresses as much because you lose depth and scope.

I'm pretty sure Superman's red laser eye blasts would look better during day time when they won't blot out the ambient environment. Again, depth and scope.

I'm not buying that heat vision would look better during the day than at night....

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When you have 7 major battle scenes across three movies you have to alternate their settings. But did the biggest battle from the last film take place at night? Nope. Would have lost scope and depth.

Is it really up for debate whether a large scale looks bigger during the day or at night? That's rather silly

FYI Helm's Deep was during day and night.

Now I know you are just going to keep fudging. Are you serious? Dawn is the end of the battle. The very end. As in fractions of the actual film are spent with the sun out, most talking inside a little room.

If that is the case, the siege in RotK took place at night as well. After all, a few scenes happen at night.

You bring up LOTR, are proven wrong and then just start dodging. You talk about losing scope and depth, and then completely ignore the two major set pieces that happened in darkness.

The Hobbit just came out, and the major set piece once again took place in a similar environment.

 

[Poni_Boy]

This is the problem. WB tried that approach to Superman Returns and it failed. Superman is a recognizable superhero but you can't just throw the S logo out there in a 1 month blitz and expect the movie to make $200 million. I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but they haven't given much of an indication that they are trying something different than what failed in 2006.

This is where quality of the film balances out marketing. If the movie is of high quality you can be modest with marketing costs (and by modest I mean in the tens of millions) and WOM takes over. Look at Skyfall, which came after the poorly received Quantum.

But if you have a movie that's not likely to generate positive buzz you can either oversaturate the market (i.e. Green Lantern) or throw your hands up and save the cash (i.e. John Carter, Jonah He) and it won't matter. Bad WOM is the most worrisome, and uncontrollable, marketing aspect.

Could WB be doing more? Of course. But think of it this way: What if the reason they're not freaking out and overmarketing early is because they have faith in the project? Just something to think about.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It cost two to three times less to market GOT last season, and it had bigger ratings than season one. Same thing happened with The Walking Dead. You know why? Season one was an unfamiliar property that NEEDED a ton of marketing to make people aware it exists.

Superman doesn't need that. He's the world's most well known superhero. That's why they're marketing this movie the same way they marketed Batman Begins.

Marketing costs money. I don't understand how people don't realize that. Even producing a still costs money. You need the photographer, editor, marketing people and director involved at a minimum. Who's gonna pay for that when it's too far in advance to help generate box office receipts?

TDK had a much smaller marketing budget than Green Lantern. Proving quality of the film sells a property much better than oversaturating the market with relentless promo materials.

Superman Returns. Hell, Begins didn't do all that well at the box office.

Thank you ladies and gentleman, drive home safe.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is where quality of the film balances out marketing. If the movie is of high quality you can be modest with marketing costs (and by modest I mean in the tens of millions) and WOM takes over. Look at Skyfall, which came after the poorly received Quantum.

But if you have a movie that's not likely to generate positive buzz you can either oversaturate the market (i.e. Green Lantern) or throw your hands up and save the cash (i.e. John Carter, Jonah He) and it won't matter. Bad WOM is the most worrisome, and uncontrollable, marketing aspect.

Could WB be doing more? Of course. But think of it this way: What if the reason they're not freaking out and overmarketing early is because they have faith in the project? Just something to think about.

Are forgetting what Batman Begins made in theaters? Really?

 

[Boy Scout]

Superman doesn't need that. He's the world's most well known superhero. That's why they're marketing this movie the same way they marketed Batman Begins.

I don't particularly agree or disagree with anything you're saying overall, but that's exactly how they felt about SR. And as we all know, that film didn't exactly light the BO on fire.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

But not really. Mayweather doesn't fight often anymore. Manny fights on traditional boxing dates. Mayweather and Manny have never been programmed around the UFC. They are just too big of draws.

That's not true. Mosely vs Mayweather was at one time set to collide with a stacked UFC card but HBO rescheduled the fight to a later date.

Boxing's biggest stars have rarely ever competed with the UFC's money-makers (Lesnar, GSP, Ando, etc). In reality, Boxing only has two massive and marketable stars, so it's easier for the UFC to avoid placing a high caliber card and/or main event on the same weekend.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Batman Begins, which we all love, didn't do that well at the box office. $150 million budget, $374 million return. If we are including marketing, did they really make their money back before DVDs?

 

[Poni_Boy]

Now I know you are just going to keep fudging. Are you serious? Dawn is the end of the battle. The very end. As in fractions of the actual film are spent with the sun out, most talking inside a little room.

If that is the case, the siege in RotK took place at night as well. After all, a few scenes happen at night.

You bring up LOTR, are proven wrong and then just start dodging. You talk about losing scope and depth, and then completely ignore the two major set pieces that happened in darkness.

The Hobbit just came out, and the major set piece once again took place in a similar environment.

Simple answer to end the debate: Do large action set pieces look bigger (depth, scope) during the day or at night?

Why did The Hobbit tree scene take place at night? Why did final The Amazing Spider-Man fight take place at night? Why, in general, is night time used for some action scenes when day light would work just as well?

Because it shrinks the frame and makes smaller scale action look bigger. It's one of the main reasons Nolan chose to set the final Bane/Batman battle in day light.

 

[mohoo]

Great points. And don't forget most important factor that addresses these complaints: You don't oversell a product (i.e. MOS) to someone who's already gonna buy it (i.e. fans)

Yep, most these arguments start when we mixing between "marketing" and "satisfying the fans".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's not true. Mosely vs Mayweather was at one time set to collide with a stacked UFC card but HBO rescheduled the fight to a later date.

Boxing's biggest stars have rarely ever competed with the UFC's money-makers (Lesnar, GSP, Ando, etc). In reality, Boxing only has two massive and marketable stars, so it's easier for the UFC to avoid placing a high caliber card and/or main event on the same weekend.

That doesn't make sense. Floyd likes to fight as close to Cinco de Mayo as possible.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Are forgetting what Batman Begins made in theaters? Really?

OMG are you being serious?

It made $370+ million worldwide off a $150 budget -- In a pre-TDK/TDKR world

What was the highest grossing superhero movie before Batman Begins? What about now?

The industry has changed drastically since TDK.

You're fooling yourself if you think the build up to Man of Steel is remotely comparable to Superman Returns.

As apposed to what many people thought, superhero movies are grossing more than any other genre and have become THE must see movies of the year every year.