All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 4

[Sherlock Holmes]

^ Much appreciated my friend

 

[Comics N' Toons]

speaking of for all seasons i would pick it up but i hate how superman looks in it

looks like a marshmallow man wtf is up with that?

pick it up, now... you will not regret it. Very good stuff... DO IT! DO IT!

 

[Lead Cenobite]

speaking of for all seasons i would pick it up but i hate how superman looks in it

looks like a marshmallow man wtf is up with that?

To make people look freakish is artistic, haven't you heard?

 

[Kurosawa]

speaking of for all seasons i would pick it up but i hate how superman looks in it

looks like a marshmallow man wtf is up with that?

Basically Sale was trying to make Clark look like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. The whole pure/giant idiot motif. Terrible choice for a man who is the man of tomorrow.

Spoiler

I appreciate the history and it's not a bad literary choice but I just don't think it's right for Superman.

I don't like Superman as a Lennie/Lil Abner type character myself. Shuster never drew him as a freakishly huge hulk.

I'd probably like the book more if it was drawn in a less condescending style and in more of a Norman Rockwell/Curt Swan style.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I just finished Look up to the Sky!
Yes, Cavill does have big BOOTS to fill!

It's a great documentary.

 

[ChickenScratch]

trunks are more associated towards shorts imo

Really, I always learned that trunks were shorter than boxers, longer than shorts and worn on the outside covering the midsection of the body (ya know, the trunk).

trunk noun ( CLOTHES )
Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/trʌŋk/
Definition
trunks (UK also swimming trunks)
a piece of men's clothing that covers the hips and bottom and the top part of the legs and is worn when swimming or performing athletic activity

 

[SuperDaniel]

Basically Sale was trying to make Clark look like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. The whole pure/giant idiot motif. Terrible choice for a man who is the man of tomorrow.

I appreciate the history and it's not a bad literary choice but I just don't think it's right for Superman.

I don't like Superman as a Lennie/Lil Abner type character myself. Shuster never drew him as a freakishly huge hulk.

I'd probably like the book more if it was drawn in a less condescending style and in more of a Norman Rockwell/Curt Swan style.

I expected more from you. I guess u have no idea what is the european style of drawing graphic novels. Tim Sale is easily one of the best artists that ever drawn Superman. Just look at his storytelling, backgrounds, composition...

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Thanks man I stayed away for a bit after going through depression. I just hit my mid 20's got paid to travel having a part in a play, only to have the production stop... No more paychecks, and then to top it off my wife got off birth control for a couple weeks and got pregnant, then lost the baby to a miscarriage. Usually they say it affects women more but for some reason I think it affected me more than my wife. Life moves on though, and I'm trying to not let it keep me down and go back to being a grumpy jerk. I'm definitely attempting to mature after these experiences for sure. Learning a lot these days in my older mid 20's heading towards 30 age.

wait till you leave your 20's

 

[ChickenScratch]

I expected more from you. I guess u have no idea what is the european style of drawing graphic novels. Tim Sale is easily one of the best artists that ever drawn Superman. Just look at his storytelling, backgrounds, composition...

Tell me about this European style then. I like Sale's work on Batman, but Superman For All Seasons was just ugly to my eyes for the most part.

 

[SuperDaniel]

European comics/graphic novels/albums are different in thematic than American comics. They are much more worried with backgrounds, perspective, composition and the characters look much more like caricatures, humorous, more diverse facial expressions. They are less flashy and action oriented and more cinematic oriented.

The animation movie The Triplets of Belleville is a good example of the style:

You can't judge Tim Sale's art with American standards of anatomy. His work is different. It worked perfectly for the story they were trying to tell.

UGLY? This is one of the best images that ever graced Superman comics:

For more of this, check here where he explains himself his influences:
http://www.timsale1.com/influences.html

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Basically Sale was trying to make Clark look like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. The whole pure/giant idiot motif. Terrible choice for a man who is the man of tomorrow.

I appreciate the history and it's not a bad literary choice but I just don't think it's right for Superman.

I don't like Superman as a Lennie/Lil Abner type character myself. Shuster never drew him as a freakishly huge hulk.

I'd probably like the book more if it was drawn in a less condescending style and in more of a Norman Rockwell/Curt Swan style.

You hit the nail on the head, although Clark as a farmboy doesn't quite equate to making him a slow witted gentle giant.

 

[SuperDaniel]

No.Tim Sale was influenced by Norman Rockwell. Kurosawa knows a lot of things but he is completely wrong on this, like i said in my previous post. It is pretty damn clear. He even dedicates the story to Norman Rockwell in acknowledgments page. See it for yourself:

Every pivotal moment, especially in the first issue, is drawn from Rockwell. I guess he doesnt know about art that much as he knows about history of Superman.

 

[El Payaso]

Basically Sale was trying to make Clark look like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. The whole pure/giant idiot motif. Terrible choice for a man who is the man of tomorrow.

I appreciate the history and it's not a bad literary choice but I just don't think it's right for Superman.

I don't like Superman as a Lennie/Lil Abner type character myself. Shuster never drew him as a freakishly huge hulk.

I'd probably like the book more if it was drawn in a less condescending style and in more of a Norman Rockwell/Curt Swan style.

I absolutely agree.

Clark Kent looked like a ******ed giant. And God forgive me, he sometimes acted like one too.

That depiction helped me understand why so many people hate the character. And I'm sorry but when he told that boy that it was his mother who had made his suit for him I felt like choking that gigantic moron with my own hands..... with Kryptonite gloves, naturally.

 

[Clarkman]

Unfortunately it seems to be a given that the trunks are absent on the MOS suit, but I hope there's at least a different pattern with different coloring on the much talked about crotch area.

A little off-topic, but I love this story.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Ugh... I love Tim Sale but his Superman design makes me want to ram my head into a wall.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I don't care for it either

 

[Kurosawa]

I expected more from you. I guess u have no idea what is the european style of drawing graphic novels. Tim Sale is easily one of the best artists that ever drawn Superman. Just look at his storytelling, backgrounds, composition...

I'd rather Superman be drawn in a more American style. Swan and Norman Rockwell should be the templates, not imitated but with a similar sensibility. I'm not much of a Sale fan-I can't get past his art to really appreciate Superman for All Seasons or The Long Halloween. I think most of his art is ugly and hard to look at. He's a fairly good storyteller, but I dislike his rendering. He's a not as good Frank Quitely to me. Regardless, I don't like Superman depicted as that Li'l Abner/Jethro character no matter who does it. He's not a stupid farmboy. He's a God who happened to grow up on a farm. I don't hate the guy, and I dislike saying that I don't like his work-it's work that I KNOW is good but I still can't get into it. And that frustrates me.

I do think he'd draw a pretty good Captain Marvel though, there is a charm and a warmth to his panels on that page that would work there. I just feel it's not quite right for Superman.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Did you see the examples i've shown about how it is very similar to Rockwell's?? Every page is almost copied from his work, especially in the first issue.

 

[Kurosawa]

No.Tim Sale was influenced by Norman Rockwell. Kurosawa knows a lot of things but he is completely wrong on this, like i said in my previous post. It is pretty damn clear. He even dedicates the story to Norman Rockwell in acknowledgments page. See it for yourself:

Every pivotal moment, especially in the first issue, is drawn from Rockwell. I guess he doesnt know about art that much as he knows about history of Superman.

I know he did some swipes from Rockwell, but the issue is he draws Clark/Superman as this dopey giant. He looks like a doofus. What Swan took from Rockwell is he drew Superman and his supporting cast to look like real people. It helped sell the fantasy world of Superman better when each character had their own facial features and expressions and didn't just look generic-which comic book artists past and present tend to do.

 

[SuperDaniel]

well, i love his work, especially on SFAS. I think its his best. I love the coloring on it so much. I guess its a matter of taste.

 

[Kurosawa]

Swan's guides:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[SuperDaniel]

He is great but his Superman looks 50 to me and is balding. My favorite artists are Dan Jurgens and Tom Grummett.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I think Swan's is awesome!

 

[The Sage]

There's some dynamic about Swan's Superman. I'm hoping DC does an Illustrated book for his Superman stories the same way they did one for Neal Adams.

 

[Kurosawa]

Swan's Superman and his comics in general looked like real people, not comic book characters. It really sold the fantastic as believable. Neal Adams is great and one of my favorite comics artists ever, but every woman in the world should not look just like Barbarella-era Jane Fonda.

Swan is insanely underrated. He's in my all time comics artists top 10.