All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 5

[Marvin]

So the "fresh take" is basically Birthright's fake alien invasion (the weakest part of the series) mixed with Earth: One (which was total crap), and a little Superman II mixed in.

By the way, anyone who quotes STM as the source of their fandom for Superman-like Nolan and Singer both have done-basically demonstrate that they don't understand Superman-not if that is all they know, since STM and Superman II both screwed up in major ways with Superman's portrayal and character.

The fake alien invasion as you put it may have been the weakest part of that series but I assume you would agree that, that was due in major(entirely to the) part to the fact that is was "fake alien invasion." Obviously. I don't think this film will suffer in such a way. That being said I'd take the weakest part of a strong series of say 40 years of forgettable story telling over-glorified by fans of the time.

Secondly as bad as Earth one was(I personally hated it), It had a lot of interesting ideas that may have betrayed superman but in and of themselves were pretty good. In conclusion this will will stomp all over SR and that's the first step, step two is a strong genre defining sequel pushing the new established universe forward as the best CBM's have done in the past.

Singer is an idiot of that I'm sure. Nolan may not have time for comic books but I'm sure you've noticed how integral both year one and TLH have been to his series. Moreover the key figure here being Goyer, a man capable of writing comic books a the drop of a dime. Lastly Snyder, who I assume has read a comic or two looking at his filmography.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Why would you doubt that? Their professional careers have been very involved with superheroes, and Superman is probably the first they grew up knowing.

Doesn't mean that the understand or like the character.

I think Nolan even mentioned Donner's Superman as an inspiration when casting Batman Begins, which was way before any mention of him involved in MOS. You can't fake passion, but you also can't diagnose it.

I believe it was last year at a panel or something, where Nolan stated that STM was still the best superhero movie (Goyer said BB and TDK). He has also stated in interviews that Batman and Superman are the greatest superheroes.

Well, again, "Superman The Movie" was groundbreaking, but that doesn't mean that Nolan is overly in love with the character. And Batman and Superman are the greatest superheroes - success-wise.

Snyder does love Superman, his reticence in helming the movie had more to do with him being unsure about how to bring the character's earnestness to life for a modern audience in love with darrrrkkk heroes.

We'll see. But this movie might be his most successful yet, so I think 99% of all directors would do it if you ask them.

 

[Marvin]

We'll see. But this movie might be his most successful yet, so I think 99% of all directors would do it if you ask them.

I think the percentile figure would be far less
-big(est) studio picture
-lack of any originality(in story)
-rushed(at the time) schedule
-coming off a bad film

etc, looking at the landscape I don't think all directors would be down. For example how many reasons would Tarantino(an avid fan) for not taking on this film...many.

 

[JAK®]

Tarantino loved Returns, apparently.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

1% of all directors is still a lot. And Snyder isn't really in the position to choose projects anymore after his series of flops. But given the choice I have no doubt he'll take making a Batman movie over Superman anyday.

 

[Marvin]

Tarantino loved Returns, apparently.

Who said he didn't?

Tarantino likes a lot of movies, he's notorious for it actually. Doesn't mean he's going to put his schtick aside to make a WB superman film anytime soon.

 

[JAK®]

Who said he didn't?

Tarantino likes a lot of movies, he's notorious for it actually. Doesn't mean he's going to put his schtick aside to make a WB superman film anytime soon.

I'm just saying it as an interesting fact.

 

[Kurosawa]

I'm not a member of the ZS hate gang, but he really has yet to impress me.

DOTD-okay remake, great acting, original still better
300-I hate Frank Miller
Watchmen-Felt the same about it as the comic, mixed emotions.
The Owls of Ga'Hoole-haven't seen it
Sucker Punch-It's hated a lot more than it deserves to be.

 

[JAK®]

Snyder just needs to find that sweet spot between his style and storytelling, and due to the fact that he is being reigned in somewhat for this movie I'm confident he will find it.

It really bugs me when people say he is all style and no substance, though. Watchmen has better acting overall than The Dark Knight (although Ledger individually acts better than everyone out of Watchmen)

 

[Kurosawa]

Snyder just needs to find that sweet spot between his style and storytelling, and due to the fact that he is being reigned in somewhat for this movie I'm confident he will find it.

It really bugs me when people say he is all style and no substance, though. Watchmen has better acting overall than The Dark Knight (although Ledger individually acts better than everyone out of Watchmen)

DOTD had good acting too. I think he works well with actors, but he is now getting a chance to work with some names. If Costner, Crowe, Lane, etc, nail their characters (and I think they will), then will ZS get part of the credit, or will people just ignore his direction and credit the actors?

ZS has become one of those guys that it's popular to hate, and I find that annoying.

 

[JAK®]

DOTD had good acting too. I think he works well with actors, but he is now getting a chance to work with some names. If Costner, Crowe, Lane, etc, nail their characters (and I think they will), then will ZS get part of the credit, or will people just ignore his direction and credit the actors?

People have already said that about Watchmen, that the reason the acting was good was purely due to the actors.

ZS has become one of those guys that it's popular to hate, and I find that annoying.

He's just an easy target. His style is cool-looking, so it's the perfect thing for pseudo-intellectuals to dislike.

 

[Marvin]

The internet feeds off of hating popularity in film(most of the time), it's really off putting.

Watching Jakie Haley in Watchmen and then witnessing him during interviews is almost insane, great call there on Snyders part.

 

[Mad Love]

Doesn't mean that the understand or like the character.

You can't know that. They could say the same about you.

 

[shieldshero]

I'm not a member of the ZS hate gang, but he really has yet to impress me.

DOTD-okay remake, great acting, original still better
300-I hate Frank Miller
Watchmen-Felt the same about it as the comic, mixed emotions.
The Owls of Ga'Hoole-haven't seen it
Sucker Punch-It's hated a lot more than it deserves to be.

Er, you can't really blame ZS for your dislike of 300 because you don't like FM, or mixed feelings for Watchmen if you felt the same way about the source material, can you? :-s This doesn't change the fact they were both faithful or at least good live action adaptations of the graphic novels, I'm sure we're going to get a much more faithful less 'out there' vision of Superman than some people on the boards seem to believe imo...

 

[Kurosawa]

Er, you can't really blame ZS for your dislike of 300 because you don't like FM, or mixed feelings for Watchmen if you felt the same way about the source material, can you? :-s This doesn't change the fact they were both faithful or at least good live action adaptations of the graphic novels, I'm sure we're going to get a much more faithful less 'out there' vision of Superman than some people on the boards seem to believe imo...

That's why I excluded judgement on 300-it was a good and faithful adaption of source material that I personally find to be junk.

 

[I Am The Knight]

OK question: Who is Harry Lennix playing? some military dude I presume.

 

[HighFivingMF]

OK question: Who is Harry Lennix playing? some military dude I presume.

General Swanwick, an original character.

 

[El Payaso]

Snyder just needs to find that sweet spot between his style and storytelling, and due to the fact that he is being reigned in somewhat for this movie I'm confident he will find it.

It really bugs me when people say he is all style and no substance, though. Watchmen has better acting overall than The Dark Knight (although Ledger individually acts better than everyone out of Watchmen)

Oh no no no. Rorschach was good enough but he was a raspy voice again and again with cool dialoges only. Didn't deliver anything else. Can't touch a second of Ledger with a ten feet pole. And then Ozymandias was just bad. Starting with him acting like the bad guy from the start, which was supposed to be a secret.

Eckhardt was better than that by a couple of miles. And Oldman also was. And Freeman. And Caine at that.

People have already said that about Watchmen, that the reason the acting was good was purely due to the actors.

Ozymandias tells me exactly that. the guy acted natural and all. But he acted the arrogant villiain that was supposed to be just arrogant but not a villiain. That tells me that Snyder cared more about a scene-to-scene good acting than designbing the character as a whole.

 

[I Am The Knight]

General Swanwick, an original character.

Thanks

 

[batman44]

Take with a grain of salt, but Imdb has Keke Palmer cast as Natasha Irons.

Edit: Take another grain salt for this, details on Jor-El's costume or atleast one of them.
http://nukethefridge.com/news/exclu...-zack-snyder’s-superman-man-of-steel-revealed

 

[Adenjo]

ZS has become one of those guys that it's popular to hate, and I find that annoying.

He's the new Michael Bay.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

People have already said that about Watchmen, that the reason the acting was good was purely due to the actors.
.

I've always felt that is so ridiculous.

Example: Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor wasn't awful because he's an awful actor. It was Singer's sentimental homage direction.

An actors job is to do what the director tells him. If Zack Snyder wants Russell Crowe to say something in a hushed whisper, he'll tell him to say it in a hushed whisper. Then Russell Crowe will, and everyone will be saying 'don't you love the way he said that in that hushed whispery way!'

Of course actors bring a bit of their own flare, but discounting the direction is just ridiculous IMO, whether it's positive or negative.

Annoys me when Nolanites say Maggie Gyllenhal was just bad, and it had nothing to do with Nolan. And it'll annoy me if MOS is a success and they say it's only cause they got great actors in.

 

[JAK®]

Oh no no no. Rorschach was good enough but he was a raspy voice again and again with cool dialoges only.

Sounds familiar.

But I disagree. Haley managed to drive home the point that many people miss about the character, that his whole demeanour is a facade, a pathetic defence against a world that he doesn't respect. His voice was raspy, yes. But he still managed to make it work while still making it clear that it's ridiculous, unlike Bale who sounds ridiculous despite trying to sound intimidating.

And then Ozymandias was just bad. Starting with him acting like the bad guy from the start, which was supposed to be a secret.

Did he act like a bad guy from the start? I think that's just because we knew he was the bad guy beforehand. The twist was never about him being the villain, though. It was about what he does and how the characters deal with it.

Eckhardt was better than that by a couple of miles.

Yes, but not better than Wilson as Dreiberg. Eckhardt also hams it up a bit as Two-Face, and not in a good way.

And Oldman also was.

Same as Wilson.

And Freeman. And Caine at that.

These guys were phoning it in big time. Which considering their talent, still counted as good performances. But they definitely aren't bringing their A-game to the franchise. They know it's a blockbuster.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

People have already said that about Watchmen, that the reason the acting was good was purely due to the actors.

He's just an easy target. His style is cool-looking, so it's the perfect thing for pseudo-intellectuals to dislike.

And everyone was in love with him after 300. I'm pretty sure I heard "best comic book movie ever" a few times after it's release.

 

[JAK®]

And everyone was in love with him after 300. I'm pretty sure I heard "best comic book movie ever" a few times after it's release.

Just goes to show how people are too quick to judge.