All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[Kal-El.9859]

Have we seen this yet? - heads up for spoilers:
http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/content/leaked-fortress-solitude-image-man-steel-2013-lands-online

I posted it here days ago....seems they jacked it and didn't give credit to where they found it. Typical

 

[Naite22]

[YT]l9LDkUb3QAs[/YT]

Just a little odd^

Nah. That's just dumb. Now, Nicholas Cage in Tim Burtons never-happened superman freak of a film, THAT was odd...

That's just downright frightening!

It's downright dumb. That's all.

 

[Naite22]

I'd really wish for a definitive and an official answer to the question, being: How long is this movie, NOT including credits!?... Will it be 2:10 - or 2:28!?... God, I hope for the latter.

 

[dark_b]

Have we seen this yet? - heads up for spoilers:
http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/content/leaked-fortress-solitude-image-man-steel-2013-lands-online

the ship has Joer-el suit inside. so if the ship was on earth for years why is the suit inside? and how come there is a message from Joer-el?

 

[Sharkboy]

I really hope this film is 2 hours or less just to show people that great films don't need to be a ridiculous 3 hours long.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I really hope this film is 2 hours or less just to show people that great films don't need to be a ridiculous 3 hours long.

Yep. If a movie is under 2 hours and 30 minutes there are always a big chunk of people on the interwebs who say the film is too short.

The director said the movie is 2 hours and 10 minutes and said it is the directors cut so why question his cut without seeing the film?

How the hell do people who haven't seen the film know that it is too short?

 

[Smallville13]

I think MOS will look better because Zack Snyder has made a LOT more superhero like films than Joss Whedon has. Snyder's work will look more cinematic, easily.

This is definitely true. I think Joss Whedon is an excellent writer and storyteller. But Zack Snyder really does wipe the floor with him when it comes to visionary directing. Every single shot in that MOS trailer looks 10X better in terms of composition, art, and framing then anything in the Avengers. As great as the Avengers was I couldn't escape the 'TV movie' type feel throughout most of it.

 

[Zionite1]

Goyer's influences for MOS: "Byrne's Krypton was definitely an influence, but not the only influence. Was also influenced by Alan Moore's stuff. All Star Superman. Geoff Johns' stuff. Even the old Curt Swan stuff."

Weird.Yes I can see Byrnes Krypton being the inspiration behind the Genetic Engineering,and cold devotion to science Kryptonians seem to have in MOS.

But I cant see any Alan Moore,All star,Curt swan,Geoff Johns influence on Krypton at all.Krypton in MOS quite frankly looks like a cross
between the one in Earthone and Flyby especially-Flyby.But of course Goyer and Snyder will never admit it

Back to the issue of Krypton's destruction and Zod's motivations - based on the new Empire article, does anyone wonder if Jor-El's ethics or plans for Earth are not as different from Zod's as we may think. It was mentioned that Jor-El's motives for sending Kal-El to Earth are not as noble as we might think and that propagation of the species has a strong bearing on his decision. A good number of people here have complained about the possible destiny/messiah angle being retreaded in Man of Steel based on Jor-El's speech about Kal-El and the people of Earth. I wonder if Man of Steel might portray that attitude of superiority in a negative or at least morally dubious light given the hints about Jor-El's motives. That Jor-El, despite his comparative wisdom to the rest of Krypton, is equally superior and thinks that Kal-El ought to lead Earth to become a New Krypton, a better one. What if Jor-El's well-meaning but patronizing attitude towards the people of Earth is partially rejected by Clark.

I think perhaps Clark becomes Superman by balancing Jor-El's confidence/arrogance and Pa Kent's fear/humility. Clark refuses to impose himself on Earth as a god or leader as Jor-El would have wanted, but he also refuses to hide in the shadows like Pa Kent might have preferred. Rather, instead of accepting either father's distrustful opinion of humanity (Jor-El distrusting their ability to advance on their own and Jonathan distrusting their ability to accept that what is different), perhaps Clark is alone in accepting an optimistic opinion of humanity. Perhaps his travels have taught him about the innate goodness of human beings although it takes Clark a while to realize it.

Wonderful post.I was also worried we were getting another Jorel predestination angle but the Empire article largely puts those fears to rest.You also described in a way I can see it going down.

the ship has Joer-el suit inside. so if the ship was on earth for years why is the suit inside? and how come there is a message from Joer-el?

The toyleak referred to the fotress as being Jorels scout ship containing Jorels suit and seeing that it was right about everything else I think it was right about that.
Sure the Ew article refers to Fotress as being being left by a group of kryptonian pioneers but honestly that part sounded a bit more like speculation than a scoop.
Im now more sure about that pic shows the fotress arriving in the artic.

 

[Kevin Smith]

This is definitely true. I think Joss Whedon is an excellent writer and storyteller. But Zack Snyder really does wipe the floor with him when it comes to visionary directing. Every single shot in that MOS trailer looks 10X better in terms of composition, art, and framing then anything in the Avengers. As great as the Avengers was I couldn't escape the 'TV movie' type feel throughout most of it.

That was exactly how I felt about that.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Back to the issue of Krypton's destruction and Zod's motivations - based on the new Empire article, does anyone wonder if Jor-El's ethics or plans for Earth are not as different from Zod's as we may think. It was mentioned that Jor-El's motives for sending Kal-El to Earth are not as noble as we might think and that propagation of the species has a strong bearing on his decision. A good number of people here have complained about the possible destiny/messiah angle being retreaded in Man of Steel based on Jor-El's speech about Kal-El and the people of Earth. I wonder if Man of Steel might portray that attitude of superiority in a negative or at least morally dubious light given the hints about Jor-El's motives. That Jor-El, despite his comparative wisdom to the rest of Krypton, is equally superior and thinks that Kal-El ought to lead Earth to become a New Krypton, a better one. What if Jor-El's well-meaning but patronizing attitude towards the people of Earth is partially rejected by Clark.

I think perhaps Clark becomes Superman by balancing Jor-El's confidence/arrogance and Pa Kent's fear/humility. Clark refuses to impose himself on Earth as a god or leader as Jor-El would have wanted, but he also refuses to hide in the shadows like Pa Kent might have preferred. Rather, instead of accepting either father's distrustful opinion of humanity (Jor-El distrusting their ability to advance on their own and Jonathan distrusting their ability to accept that what is different), perhaps Clark is alone in accepting an optimistic opinion of humanity. Perhaps his travels have taught him about the innate goodness of human beings although it takes Clark a while to realize it.

Here, have the internet.

Fantastic post.

 

[DKDetective]

Weird.Yes I can see Byrnes Krypton being the inspiration behind the Genetic Engineering,and cold devotion to science Kryptonians seem to have in MOS.

But I cant see any Alan Moore,All star,Curt swan,Geoff Johns influence on Krypton at all.Krypton in MOS quite frankly looks like a cross
between the one in Earthone and Flyby especially-Flyby.But of course Goyer and Snyder will never admit it

Geoff John's influence can be seen in Clark's childhood and sense of alienation. The scene with the ship and Clark begging to continue pretending to be his son is almost verbatim from Johns' Secret Origins. The All-Star Superman influence can be seen in Jor-El's speech about being an ideal to strive towards. That speech is similarly almost verbatim from All-Star.

Wonderful post.I was also worried we were getting another Jorel predestination angle but the Empire article largely puts those fears to rest.You also described in a way I can see it going down.

Thanks, I have been having a hard time reconciling the idea of how Goyer and Snyder keep talking about how this movie is about nature vs nurture and free choice and having a speech where Jor-El pretty explicitly tells Clark what his purpose in life is. It didn't seem to make sense until I read the Empire article.

The toyleak referred to the fotress as being Jorels scout ship containing Jorels suit and seeing that it was right about everything else I think it was right about that.
Sure the Ew article refers to Fotress as being being left by a group of kryptonian pioneers but honestly that part sounded a bit more like speculation than a scoop.
Im now more sure about that pic shows the fotress arriving in the artic.

Personally, I'm gravitating towards the ancient Kryptonian pioneers angle because it makes more sense to me. It doesn't make sense that Zod and company would take so long to find Clark if Earth was only recently visited by Kryptonians. Zod's "I will find him!" scream suggests that Jor-El and Lara have sent baby Kal where they think no one else will find him and Zod is vowing to prove them wrong.

Given the mention of Jor-El having to retrieve the "Codex" underwater (hence Crowe's scuba training), I believe he visits some old ruin or something to retrieve records of ancient Kryptonian interstellar expeditions to use to find a suitable home for Kal-El. As a member of the Science caste, Jor-El's knowledge of such things would be relatively rare. Finally, the caste nature of Kryptonian society also explains why Kal-El would find a House of El suit on the ship. As a pioneer or exploratory vessel, it would have been crewed by members of the science guild including members of the El family.

EDIT: The ancient origin of Kal-El's suit may also explain why its colours seem to be brighter than those of Jor-El's suit (cape especially). Superman's suit and the pioneer ship are from the Krypton's golden age, its peak. That is why they are more vibrant looking. Look at the colour of the Fortress compared to the Krypton we see in the movie. It is more silver whereas the stuff on Krypton has a lot of bronze and fall colours. Weta did something similar for the Elves in LOTR. During the flashback to the Second Age and the fall of Sauron, the Elves' armour, weapon, and standards are more so spring and summer colours to show a prosperous society whereas at the end of the Third Age, everything is darker and faded to show decline.

 

[Zionite1]

Geoff John's influence can be seen in Clark's childhood and sense of alienation. The scene with the ship and Clark begging to continue pretending to be his son is almost verbatim from Johns' Secret Origins. The All-Star Superman influence can be seen in Jor-El's speech about being an ideal to strive towards. That speech is similarly almost verbatim from All-Star.

Oh.I see didnt read the original question accurately-I assumed it was talking about what were Goyers influences for Kryptons design in MOS,not what were his influences for MOS in general.

Personally, I'm gravitating towards the ancient Kryptonian pioneers angle because it makes more sense to me. It doesn't make sense that Zod and company would take so long to find Clark if Earth was only recently visited by Kryptonians. Zod's "I will find him!" scream suggests that Jor-El and Lara have sent baby Kal where they think no one else will find him and Zod is vowing to prove them wrong.

Given the mention of Jor-El having to retrieve the "Codex" underwater (hence Crowe's scuba training), I believe he visits some old ruin or something to retrieve records of ancient Kryptonian interstellar expeditions to use to find a suitable home for Kal-El. As a member of the Science caste, Jor-El's knowledge of such things would be relatively rare. Finally, the caste nature of Kryptonian society also explains why Kal-El would find a House of El suit on the ship. As a pioneer or exploratory vessel, it would have been crewed by members of the science guild including members of the El family.

I assumed the reason it takes Zod so long to find him is for the same reason it takes Ty-zor so long to find Kalel in the Flyby script-Jorel sends Kalel to a planet only he knows about.He discovers earth himself using a remote controlled scout ship which he leaves on the planet.
He sends Kalel after that and Kalel uses the scout ship as his Fotress

 

[Smallville13]

It will definitely be fascinating to compare the finished product of MOS to the Flyby script. I wonder how much Goyer did borrow from that.

 

[Dr.]

The toyleak referred to the fotress as being Jorels scout ship containing Jorels suit and seeing that it was right about everything else I think it was right about that.
Sure the Ew article refers to Fotress as being being left by a group of kryptonian pioneers but honestly that part sounded a bit more like speculation than a scoop.
Im now more sure about that pic shows the fotress arriving in the artic.

Yeah. That article said that the existence of the spaceship/FOS was “proof” that Earth had been visited by earlier, Kryptonian pioneers. Now maybe EW was privy to some inside info that confirms this. But I don’t think this can be assumed from the trailer alone. Hypothetically, it’s possible that an unmanned FOS landed in the Arctic at the same time as Kal-El’s pod set down in Kansas.

 

[JOE]

I like DKDetective's perspective. Awesome post.

 

[Zionite1]

It will definitely be fascinating to compare the finished product of MOS to the Flyby script. I wonder how much Goyer did borrow from that.

The flyby stuff in the movie revolves around the Kryptonians.
Flyby clearly inspired
1.the design of Kryronian tech and outfits
2.the caste system of Krypton

The idea of Earth being invaded by 4 Kryptonian warriors and a Kryptonian Monster Machine is from Flyby.

Yeah. That article said that the existence of the spaceship/FOS was “proof” that Earth had been visited by earlier, Kryptonian pioneers. Now maybe EW was privy to some inside info that confirms this. But I don’t think this can be assumed from the trailer alone. Hypothetically, it’s possible that an unmanned FOS landed in the Arctic at the same time as Kal-El’s pod set down in Kansas.

Hah someone else gets it.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

But we saw one ship flying toward Earth in the trailer ..

 

[Dragon_316ca]

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2013/04/26/sfx235-preview-zack-snyder-talks-man-of-steel/

There are eight pages of supercoverage of Man Of Steel in the new issue of SFX, out next Wednesday, including exclusive, all-new interviews with the Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman, Henry Cavill and director Zack Snyder (plus Superman Returns director Bryan Singer and his thoughts now on his attempt to reboot Superman).

To convince you that you really need to buy this Mag Of Steel, here’s a taster of Zack Snyder on his leading man:

“God, he’s so Supermanish it’s crazy! There was a telling moment – we put him in the Christopher Reeve costume, because we didn’t have a suit yet, we just had the old spandex suit. He stepped out of the trailer and no one laughed. It’s the difference between being Superman and dressing up like Superman. If I’m dressed up like Superman it’s like a Halloween costume. If you’re Henry it’s your clothes. It’s awesome. Watch the movie and you’re like ‘Holy ****, that’s Superman.’ And it’s not weird or crazy, it’s just cool.”

And here’s Snyder on the approach they took when it came to making you believe a man could fly…

“It’s a more violent experience. It’s raw. It takes effort to do it, and that’s what we were really going for. It’s almost like there’s this kind of Right Stuff quality to it. He’s constantly booming around, accelerating. You think he’s going as fast as he can and then it’s like ‘Yeeaahh!’ He’s always got an extra gear he can use.”

And on recreating Krypton…

“I really wanted my Krypton to be this kind of special place that’s immersive and totally different from Earth, but not unbelievable. And ancient. I really wanted to give this ancient feeling to Krypton. I love technology that’s rusty because it’s so old. It’s so advanced, but it’s so old. That was the kind of world that I tried to create. A dying world that’s ancient and torn apart.”


SFX#235 is available to buy in shops

and online from Wednesday 1 May

 

[Smallville13]

Not looking forward to these greater DCU references in MOS. I'm trying to think of what they might be. I hope Snyder is just referring to like the Lexcorp building and more 'Superman' world-building.

I'd hate to think we see stupid stuff in the back of DP news stories like 'Lightning storm in Central City', or 'Prototype crash at Ferris Aircraft'. Ugh.

 

[Glassjaw]

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2013/04/26/sfx235-preview-zack-snyder-talks-man-of-steel/

Wow some great quotes there, can't wait to read. Hopefully there photos accompanying the article are all new and not re-used.

 

[IamtheBatman]

Not looking forward to these greater DCU references in MOS. I'm trying to think of what they might be. I hope Snyder is just referring to like the Lexcorp building and more 'Superman' world-building.

I'd hate to think we see stupid stuff in the back of DP news stories like 'Lightning storm in Central City', or 'Prototype crash at Ferris Aircraft'. Ugh.

I don't think Goyer would write that into MOS.

 

[GreenKToo]

Geoff John's influence can be seen in Clark's childhood and sense of alienation. The scene with the ship and Clark begging to continue pretending to be his son is almost verbatim from Johns' Secret Origins. The All-Star Superman influence can be seen in Jor-El's speech about being an ideal to strive towards. That speech is similarly almost verbatim from All-Star.



Thanks, I have been having a hard time reconciling the idea of how Goyer and Snyder keep talking about how this movie is about nature vs nurture and free choice and having a speech where Jor-El pretty explicitly tells Clark what his purpose in life is. It didn't seem to make sense until I read the Empire article.



Personally, I'm gravitating towards the ancient Kryptonian pioneers angle because it makes more sense to me. It doesn't make sense that Zod and company would take so long to find Clark if Earth was only recently visited by Kryptonians. Zod's "I will find him!" scream suggests that Jor-El and Lara have sent baby Kal where they think no one else will find him and Zod is vowing to prove them wrong.

Given the mention of Jor-El having to retrieve the "Codex" underwater (hence Crowe's scuba training), I believe he visits some old ruin or something to retrieve records of ancient Kryptonian interstellar expeditions to use to find a suitable home for Kal-El. As a member of the Science caste, Jor-El's knowledge of such things would be relatively rare. Finally, the caste nature of Kryptonian society also explains why Kal-El would find a House of El suit on the ship. As a pioneer or exploratory vessel, it would have been crewed by members of the science guild including members of the El family.

EDIT: The ancient origin of Kal-El's suit may also explain why its colours seem to be brighter than those of Jor-El's suit (cape especially). Superman's suit and the pioneer ship are from the Krypton's golden age, its peak. That is why they are more vibrant looking. Look at the colour of the Fortress compared to the Krypton we see in the movie. It is more silver whereas the stuff on Krypton has a lot of bronze and fall colours. Weta did something similar for the Elves in LOTR. During the flashback to the Second Age and the fall of Sauron, the Elves' armour, weapon, and standards are more so spring and summer colours to show a prosperous society whereas at the end of the Third Age, everything is darker and faded to show decline.

Yeah. That article said that the existence of the spaceship/FOS was “proof” that Earth had been visited by earlier, Kryptonian pioneers. Now maybe EW was privy to some inside info that confirms this. But I don’t think this can be assumed from the trailer alone. Hypothetically, it’s possible that an unmanned FOS landed in the Arctic at the same time as Kal-El’s pod set down in Kansas.

Interesting..The only problem I have with the idea of kryptonian pioneers in Earth's past is what happened to them? From what we know about kryptonians, once they reach earth, they pretty much live forever compared to us. at least after they've absorbed a sufficient amount of sunlight they do.

The ship from what we can tell, doesn't looked crashed to the point that it would have killed anyone when it came down, but who knows.

Now if goyer wants to explain that they went mad and died from sensory overload after landing, or simply built another ship from the remaining parts and left, then great. I just hope it isn't mentioned how superman will live thousands of years and the reasons why the pioneers are no longer around isnt touched upon.

EDIT. It could be something as simple as they went mad while still in space from sensory overload and killed each other, then the ship, on auto pilot, landed on its on.

 

[DaJanksta]

Interesting..The only problem I have with the idea of kryptonian pioneers in Earth's past is what happened to them? From what we know about kryptonians, once they reach earth, they pretty much live forever compared to us. at least after they've absorbed a sufficient amount of sunlight they do.

The ship from what we can tell, doesn't looked crashed to the point that it would have killed anyone, but who knows.

Now if goyer wants to explain that they went mad and died from sensory overload after landing, or simply built another ship from the remaining parts and left, then great. I just hope it isn't mentioned how superman will live thousands of years and the reasons why the pioneers are no longer around isnt touched upon.

Maybe it will be one of those personal robots or something like Kelex.

 

[Zionite1]

But we saw one ship flying toward Earth in the trailer ..

If the fotress is Jorels scout ship then it makes sense that it is already on earth before Kalel is sent to earth.The trailer shows Kalels arrival on earth

 

[Zionite1]

Not looking forward to these greater DCU references in MOS. I'm trying to think of what they might be. I hope Snyder is just referring to like the Lexcorp building and more 'Superman' world-building.

I'd hate to think we see stupid stuff in the back of DP news stories like 'Lightning storm in Central City', or 'Prototype crash at Ferris Aircraft'. Ugh.

pretty much what i expect