All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - Part 71

[InJustice]

yea I figured that's what was meant.
However would one argue that the early donner verse was "apologetic"

Seems implied that he was bashing Superman Returns moreso with his statement than the Donner films.

 

[Gavan]

It feels very refreshing that we'll get to see the character between his teen version and the adult one we've always known from the Christopher Reeve's portrayal.
That's one of the things it always bugged me about the movies, that we never really get the chance to explore him, or to see how he really is when he's alone, and not being awkward with other people. That's one of the things I'm most looking forward to this time.

Yeah, the "12 years in the Fortress with Jor-El's head" bit shocked me when I first watched Superman: The Movie in full (at home). It bugged me a lot and I've come to dislike practically everything about the old series Jor-El. Especially when future adaptations and eventually the comics kept borrowing the look. So I'm very thankful this is a new take. Wash that off.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

"As much as I agree with snyder, that specific statement kinda goes against all this talk of Superman needing to "change" and or be presented in a way no one has seen before."

He means on film. Every strong to decent Superman film is rooted in the Donnerverse. Now, I think Donner's a strong director, but Superman needs to be updated to match the comics that have been released since the Bryne reboot.

Heck, even Richard agrees with me. He just wants to see a film with SOUL, and not have the directors be burdened with his vision.

 

[Binker]

So, anything from the junket?

 

[Mad Love]

It shows how well women are portrayed in a film based on three questions.

1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

It's anti-feminist if women talk to or about men? So stupid.

 

[jedi42]

"Zack Snyder: Just because kryptonite or Lex Luther is not in the film. Do they exist in this world? That's another question"

Oh Zack, you tease

To me that translates to "That's another movie." Can totally see Kryptonite as a plot device in a possible sequel with a certain bald man using it to his advantage.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

The movie is about SuperMAN. Sorry but complaining about Lois Lane as if she is the star character instead of supporting cast is dumb. eh if she wants to disect feminism perspective she can wait on a WW or Supergirl film.

 

[Dr. Fortress]

]I don't know if he's a genius[/B], but he knows how to shoot action sequences. No doubt about that.

After you see Man of Steel I wonder if you will have the same opinion.

i hope someone puts that press conference on youtube

Not being sarcastic, but, what are the chances of that happening?

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I am a bit disappointed that all the comments of anti slow motion Snyder style seemed to get to him, to where it sounds like there will be no slow mo scenes. A superman punch like in the last Matrix movie would have been SICK!

 

[SuperAl]

Not being sarcastic, but, what are the chances of that happening?

i would say its likely, there were a lot of phones being held up in that guys short vine clips

 

[arman200]

Eh, Bechdel Test. Her opinion is invalid to me if that's the case.

I don't know why everyone is acting like this. It's not a huge thing, but it's also not much to ask to have multiple female characters in a story and have them do more than gossip or talk about men. I wouldn't say it makes or breaks a movie for me that is called "Man of Steel", in which the focus is clearly on Clark and his fathers. But regardless, it's stupid to have throwaway female characters in any story.

 

[InJustice]

It's anti-feminist if women talk to or about men? So stupid.

Especially if the larger context of a film is misogynistic...so they're telling me that as long as two women don't talk about a man that it means that it's A-OK?

The Bechel Test is an outdated sham that fails to correctly measure women's involvement in films.

 

[Mad Love]

You know what also failed the Bechdel Test? Avengers. And feminists are all over Joss Whedon and that movie.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

The movie focus is on the character Superman. Lois is great and all, but if the complaint is that there is too much Superman and action instead of Lois and romance... GOOD!

 

[arman200]

It's anti-feminist if women talk to or about men? So stupid.

You're missing the point. The female character should be able to stand on her own. No Damsel in distress, gossipy, cliche BS. That's not to say they can't ever mention a man, but it shouldn't dominate their conversation with every other woman, because that proves they live a life other than one solely reliant on the man/men in the film.

 

[Dr. Fortress]

i would say its likely, there were a lot of phones being held up in that guys short vine clips

Sweet!

 

[Octoberist]

You know what also failed the Bechdel Test? Avengers. And feminists are all over Joss Whedon and that movie.

While Black Widow had her moment, but yeah, it's a boy's club.

That's why Justice League needs to get made: Wonder Woman. The clear advantage that DC has over Marvel.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I dunno, Black Widow's role was probably enough to avoid feminists

 

[Xandrea]

It's anti-feminist if women talk to or about men? So stupid.

It's a silly test to use to criticize ONE movie. I agree. But in most movies, when women do get to talk to each other that's ALL they end up talking about. Doesn't that seem strange to you?
But really, now that I think about it. Most characters in movies only exist to interact with the main character. And women are main characters far less often than men. This may be the major reason for this Bechdel effect.

 

[robot]

About the Bechdel Test, IMO...

I think that might have been true a generation ago.. today, the reverse may be true... I think, instead of a Bechdel Test, maybe we need a Superman Test?

Ok, here's my thought on this...

1. Hypersensitive women sees what they want to see.. ie, everytime a woman is not represented exactly the way she wants it to, somehow there's a male bias... On the other hand, hypersensitive men does the opposite...

2. In reality, I TBH, I think the reverse may be true of our society today.. If you look at most TV shows, Movies, etc, Men are constantly portrayed as 'childish, ungrounded, thinks with his ****, illogical, unemotoinal, etc, etc', whereas women are almost always portrayed as 'grounded, the logical partner, always right, etc'.. take Ironman 3 for instance, sure most of the film is about Ironman (but then it's what the show's about anyways), but Tony Stark at the end had to concede and give up all his 'toys' for the woman because....

1. It has to have at least two women in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. about something besides a man

Just turn on your tv, see how many shows does exactly that...

Then reverse to the following...

1. It has to have at least two men in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. about something besides a woman


See? You get the same results... the fact is, men talk about women, and women talk about men...

It seems like today, it's ok for women to critisize men for being men,...

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Of course Lois is going to spend a lot of time referring to Superman, the guy has all sorts of powers and is trying to be the savior of earth

 

[Octoberist]

You're missing the point. The female character should be able to stand on her own. No Damsel in distress, gossipy, cliche BS. That's not to say they can't ever mention a man, but it shouldn't dominate their conversation with every other woman, because that proves they live a life other than one solely reliant on the man/men in the film.

I do think a part of the problem is that Lois Lane herself IS an archetype for the sort of Damsel in Distress' for the past 70 years. Seemingly independent and feisty, until she gets saved by her White Knight.

We can get away from it of course, but that's her roots.

 

[InJustice]

You're missing the point. The female character should be able to stand on her own. No Damsel in distress, gossipy, cliche BS. That's not to say they can't ever mention a man, but it shouldn't dominate their conversation with every other woman, because that proves they live a life other than one solely reliant on the man/men in the film.

Except, if you want to measure the damsel in distress trope, the Bechdel test doesn't give you an accurate measure of that. Just because you're not talking about a man/gossip/etc. with other women, doesn't mean you're not a damsel in distress.

 

[SuperAl]

You're missing the point. The female character should be able to stand on her own. No Damsel in distress, gossipy, cliche BS. That's not to say they can't ever mention a man, but it shouldn't dominate their conversation with every other woman, because that proves they live a life other than one solely reliant on the man/men in the film.

shes a reporter in the film, and a alien just showed up on the planet and he happens to be a man. i find it hard to see a ton of scenes where she would talk with another woman and it wouldnt be about that alien. Otherwise the scene would be pointless to the plot. Jenny Olson is the only character i can think of that she would have any interactions with and it would prolly have to be early in the film to not have it revolve around superman/zod

 

[arman200]

You know what also failed the Bechdel Test? Avengers. And feminists are all over Joss Whedon and that movie.

I don't see how feminists can attack Joss Whedon ever. He tends to focus plenty of time on Strong female characters in practically everything he does (Buffy, Serenity/Firefly, Dollhouse, etc.)