All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - Part 71

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I just said that SuperAl

 

[mohoo]

I don't know why everyone is acting like this. It's not a huge thing, but it's also not much to ask to have multiple female characters in a story and have them do more than gossip or talk about men.

I think it's much if we want every film to pass this meaningless test.

A film can pass the test even if it had the worst treatment of women, and can fail even if women are portrayed in the best way.

 

[Mad Love]

You're missing the point. The female character should be able to stand on her own. No Damsel in distress, gossipy, cliche BS. That's not to say they can't ever mention a man, but it shouldn't dominate their conversation with every other woman, because that proves they live a life other than one solely reliant on the man/men in the film.

No, the point doesn't make much sense.

Lois never being a damsel-in-distress is not Lois. And why does needing to be saved lessen character? Even Superman needs to be saved sometimes.

Lois needs to be saved because she puts herself in dangerous situations. That's BRAVE.

 

[Xandrea]

About the Bechdel Test, IMO...



1. It has to have at least two men in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. about something besides a woman


See? You get the same results... the fact is, men talk about women, and women talk about men...

It seems like today, it's ok for women to critisize men for being men,...

But that's not true at all. Most movies have more than one man. They always get to talk to each other. And they talk about a lot of things. Their back stories, the villain's master plan, their views on the world etc.
You make it sound like all characters are gossiping high school kids.

 

[SuperAl]

I just said that SuperAl

haha sorry, i had my reply window up for awhile. been monitoring the forum at work

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

The movie isn't, nor should it be centralized on Lois anyways. She seemed to have no knowledge on Superman or comic book films even. Did the tweet discuss the action, story of how he becomes Superman, etc... NOPE. Just a comment focusing on a character that is meant to be a supporting role.

 

[arman200]

I do think a part of the problem is that Lois Lane herself IS an archetype for the sort of Damsel in Distress' for the past 70 years. Seemingly independent and feisty, until she gets saved by her White Knight.

We can get away from it of course, but that's her roots.

That's the tricky bit, I agree it's all in her roots. I don't see an issue in which Superman saves her occasionally from supernatural dangers, wherein business and everyday threats she can handle herself, but she shouldn't just be there as the ditz who needs to get saved from EVERYTHING. She's a headstrong military brat.

shes a reporter in the film, and a alien just showed up on the planet and he happens to be a man. i find it hard to see a ton of scenes where she would talk with another woman and it wouldnt be about that alien. Otherwise the scene would be pointless to the plot. Jenny Olson is the only character i can think of that she would have any interactions with and it would prolly have to be early in the film to not have it revolve around superman/zod

Well I clearly stated that I see no problem with this film doing so, as it's primary focus is fathers/sons.

 

[robot]

But that's not true at all. Most movies have more than one man. They always get to talk to each other. And they talk about a lot of things. Their back stories, the villain's master plan, their views on the world etc.
You make it sound like all characters are gossiping high school kids.

That's my point.. a lot of movies, tv shows also have more than 1 woman, and they talk to each other and about all kinds of things besides men too... just look up your tv guide and go thru the list,..

 

[BestGirl]

I see no problem with Lois's portrayal not passing the Whatever test. It's not her movie, it's Superman's, and origin films are always hero-centered. We'll probably learn more about her in the sequel, once the world and Superman's character have been established.

 

[Octoberist]

That's the tricky bit, I agree it's all in her roots. I don't see an issue in which Superman saves her occasionally from supernatural dangers, wherein business and everyday threats she can handle herself, but she shouldn't just be there as the ditz who needs to get saved from EVERYTHING. She's a headstrong military brat.



Well I clearly stated that I see no problem with this film doing so, as it's primary focus is fathers/sons.

I think some people need to give the film some slack on Lois, since this is an origin story after all. Unless the writing for her character is bad, let's wait to see how she's portrayed in the sequels, etc.

 

[Rhonimus]

shes a reporter in the film, and a alien just showed up on the planet and he happens to be a man. i find it hard to see a ton of scenes where she would talk with another woman and it wouldnt be about that alien. Otherwise the scene would be pointless to the plot. Jenny Olson is the only character i can think of that she would have any interactions with and it would prolly have to be early in the film to not have it revolve around superman/zod

ah, someone with common sense ..

this whole Bechdel test smacks of "cheese-n-whine nit picking" syndrome .. and it seems thoroughly immaterial within the context of this film ..

 

[BestGirl]

I think some people need to give the film some slack on Lois, since this is an origin story after all. Unless the writing for her character is bad, let's wait to see how she's portrayed in the sequels, etc.

I beat you to the same point.

 

[Xandrea]

That's my poing.. a lot of movies, tv shows also have more than 1 woman, and they talk to each other and about all kinds of things besides men too... just look up your tv guide and go thru the list,..

TV shows don't really have this problem so much. Absolutely. They tend to have larger casts and much more time for characters to interact. This Bechdel test thing is mainly an issue with movies which, as I mentioned in another post, are centered around a major character that is usually a man. I think this is where the problem comes from. More female lead movies should fix this issue.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Rachel, a lot of people have already treaded into that point before you too

 

[robot]

ah, someone with common sense ..

this whole Bechdel test smacks of "cheese-n-whine nit picking" syndrome .. and it seems painstakingly immaterial within the context of this film ..

Exactly,.. this is a case of Feminist Gone Wild...

Every MOVIE on the PLANET have to PASS the TEST!!!

 

[Andreth]

shes a reporter in the film, and a alien just showed up on the planet and he happens to be a man. i find it hard to see a ton of scenes where she would talk with another woman and it wouldnt be about that alien. Otherwise the scene would be pointless to the plot. Jenny Olson is the only character i can think of that she would have any interactions with and it would prolly have to be early in the film to not have it revolve around superman/zod

exactly!

And she's supposed to be chasing the mysterious hero around the world, there was a set pic of her interviewing a waitress I believe. Of course they're gonna talk about Superman.

She's gonna talk to Perry about her Superman stories, she's gonna talk to Faora about Superman. Is that bad?

 

[DvilDog]

I think Lois is fine the way she is. She always needs saving because she is independent and head strong and gets herself into serious situations that she cant get out of alone dragging poor Jimmy along with her.

Random Citizen: Oh my god we are being attacked by Aliens!! Run!
Lois: Jimmy lets go get that story! I want my pulitzer!!!
Jimmy: Lois everyone is running the other way!!
Lois: Its cool man!! That's more story for us!! Put your big boy pants on and lets go!

 

[arman200]

No, the point doesn't make much sense.

Lois never being a damsel-in-distress is not Lois. And why does needing to be saved lessen character? Even Superman needs to be saved sometimes.

Lois needs to be saved because she puts herself in dangerous situations. That's BRAVE.

When that's the entire point of the character, it lessens the character. Someone who can't ever stand on their own is obviously a weak character.

I think it's much if we want every film to pass this meaningless test.

A film can pass the test even if it had the worst treatment of women, and can fail even if women are portrayed in the best way.

The test is obviously flawed, and I don't think that it should be used to judge every film as perfectly feminist friendly or empowering to women in general, all I'm saying is that there's no sense in even making a female character if her sole purpose is to rely on a man.

 

[DKDetective]

While Black Widow had her moment, but yeah, it's a boy's club.

That's why Justice League needs to get made: Wonder Woman. The clear advantage that DC has over Marvel.

Haha. No, that is why a Wonder Woman movie needs to get made. Huge untapped market.

 

[Dr. Fortress]

The movie focus is on the character Superman. Lois is great and all, but if the complaint is that there is too much Superman and action instead of Lois and romance... GOOD!

NO, its not. The movie focus is on Clark Kent, the man.

 

[arman200]

I think some people need to give the film some slack on Lois, since this is an origin story after all. Unless the writing for her character is bad, let's wait to see how she's portrayed in the sequels, etc.

Again, I have no problem with what I'm hearing. The title is Man of Steel, it's a Superman origin story, and the focus is on Clark's struggle with fitting in, hiding, and his relationship to his fathers.

 

[BestGirl]

Rachel, a lot of people have already treaded into that point before you too

Stop raining on my parade!

 

[JimJimBinks]

I love how up until this point we've been making fun, and joking about how people will act when the first negative reviews/thoughts come up.

It finally happened, one negative thought and the person it comes form is suddenly a crazy feminist who needs to be discredited. Come on guys, this is stupid.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

NO, its not. The movie focus is on Clark Kent, the man.

Well the one guy in the CBM article said it's more about Kal-El, than Clark.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

The movie focus is on Clark becoming "The Man of Steel" which is Superman. Regardless the point I was making is the movie is not about Lois Lane as the main character