All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 92

[Tristan_McClark]

^Wow, that's a good analysis. I understood how he wasn't sure about earth being trusted considering everything he endured, but the world engine bit you mentioned, very nice.

 

[Brother Jack]

I loved that nightmare scene. It was pure Snyder.

It was a decent scene on its own, though the expositional info-dump was pretty tiresome (especially after ghost Jor-El's in the ship). But I think it disrupts the pacing of the film in a similar way that Clark's flashbacks do where it kind of keeps starting and stopping. Here it's even after Clark is in the suit and the action has appeared to have begun. I felt similarly about the Dr. Manhattan sequence on Mars in Snyder's Watchmen, which, again, on its own is great but it kills the flow within the tapestry of the whole film.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

Not sure if this has been posted, but it's exactly like the movie lol.

http://www.qualityjollity.com/MMOSGAME/MassMurdererOfSteel.html

 

[bluearth]

Not sure if this has been posted, but it's exactly like the movie lol.

http://www.qualityjollity.com/MMOSGAME/MassMurdererOfSteel.html

The whole debate about this isnt even funny anymore because of how wrong one side is. The World Engine did 95% of the damage/death to Metropolis, not Superman or Zod fighting. The damage done to the city was severe so the audience knew Zod and the others meant buisness. This was a serious threat not only to Metropolis but also the world. Quite the contrast to Superman Returns where the threat is ideally located miles away from the city and the only damage it does to Metropolis is broken windows and broken gas pipes.

Also there is this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJjkqVX6Ro

But thats fine because it's cool and all, doesnt matter its Superman destroying 7 skyscrapers and a city block (when he slams Darkseid) just so he could "cut loose" for a moment.

The destruction during the final fight was huge - and needed - to highlight the power of the two super beings. Give the Hulk flying ability and Superman's speed, what would happen? The answer is what happened in Man of Steel.

And in the end, while this may be a more grounded and realistic Superman, its still very much fiction, and still very much a comic book movie.

 

[BH/HHH]

The whole debate about this isnt even funny anymore because of how wrong one side is. The World Engine did 95% of the damage/death to Metropolis, not Superman or Zod fighting. The damage done to the city was severe so the audience knew Zod and the others meant buisness. This was a serious threat not only to Metropolis but also the world. Quite the contrast to Superman Returns where the threat is ideally located miles away from the city and the only damage it does to Metropolis is broken windows and broken gas pipes.

Also there is this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJjkqVX6Ro

But thats fine because it's cool and all, doesnt matter its Superman destroying 7 skyscrapers and a city block (when he slams Darkseid) just so he could "cut loose" for a moment.

The destruction during the final fight was huge - and needed - to highlight the power of the two super beings. Give the Hulk flying ability and Superman's speed, what would happen? The answer is what happened in Man of Steel.

And in the end, while this may be a more grounded and realistic Superman, its still very much fiction, and still very much a comic book movie.

Nice post sir

 

[Herolee10]

The whole debate about this isnt even funny anymore because of how wrong one side is. The World Engine did 95% of the damage/death to Metropolis, not Superman or Zod fighting. The damage done to the city was severe so the audience knew Zod and the others meant buisness. This was a serious threat not only to Metropolis but also the world. Quite the contrast to Superman Returns where the threat is ideally located miles away from the city and the only damage it does to Metropolis is broken windows and broken gas pipes.

Also there is this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJjkqVX6Ro

But thats fine because it's cool and all, doesnt matter its Superman destroying 7 skyscrapers and a city block (when he slams Darkseid) just so he could "cut loose" for a moment.

The destruction during the final fight was huge - and needed - to highlight the power of the two super beings. Give the Hulk flying ability and Superman's speed, what would happen? The answer is what happened in Man of Steel.

And in the end, while this may be a more grounded and realistic Superman, its still very much fiction, and still very much a comic book movie.

Nice post sir

I think another reason why the whole city battle between Zod and Superman took some audiences and fans for a surprise is because it's honestly the first time that we've seen two super powered beings go at it in such a populated place, along with the fact that one of them is Superman, who people expect to always get the job done in the most heroic/neatest way.

In most cases when involving a large scale assault, people are normally evacuated, or the only people around are soldiers, etc.

 

[Eggyman]

Watched this again last night. I have some problems with the film and its rough edges, but the last scene of Superman, dumping the drone in the road is perfect. I love it.

 

[CGHulk]

So taking out the world engine deactivated terraforming, what if Superman had taken out Zod's ship first, would that have deactivate the terraforming process as well, the film wasn't specific about this! If Zod's ship could have stopped the terraforming process then Superman could have just personally sent Zod's crew and ship back into the Phantom Zone and that would of been that, and a lot less people would have died.

 

[Herolee10]

So taking out the world engine deactivated terraforming, what if Superman had taken out Zod's ship first, would that have deactivate the terraforming process as well, the film wasn't specific about this! If Zod's ship could have stopped the terraforming process then Superman could have just personally sent Zod's crew and ship back into the Phantom Zone and that would of been that, and a lot less people would have died.

It was established in the film that destroying Zod's ship wouldn't have stopped the World Engine when Jax-ur said that they (Black Zero) were slaves to the World Engine.

Even IF Superman destroyed Black Zero, the World Machine would have still been running and causing more damage to Earth's atmosphere.

Plus, it would have taken Superman probably a lot more longer to take on Black Zero since he'd have to deal with all of the kryptonians that were on board the vessel and the military couldn't get to the World Machine in time to make a difference.

 

[Silvermoon]

So taking out the world engine deactivated terraforming, what if Superman had taken out Zod's ship first, would that have deactivate the terraforming process as well, the film wasn't specific about this! If Zod's ship could have stopped the terraforming process then Superman could have just personally sent Zod's crew and ship back into the Phantom Zone and that would of been that, and a lot less people would have died.

My personal impression when I first saw the movie was that it was more of a time issue - with Zod and co. with the Black Zero, there's no telling how long it would take to disable the BZ. All the while, the World Engine in the South Indian Ocean is not only doing the gravity beam thing, but it's ALSO spewing particulates and who the hell knows what else into the air to make the atmosphere more like Krypton's - the longer that's allowed to go on, the more danger to Earth (I mean, hell, look at the state of our ozone now... and that's just what we've done to the Earth). I wouldn't be surprised if already the flora and fauna in the immediate region have already been severely affected by the World Engine.

(side tangent, personally, I think that one way they might be able to bring Kryptonite into play in future films is that because Superman disabled the World Engine while it was in the process of terraforming/interrupted the process some of the rock that had already been transformed became irradiated?)

edited to add: The novelization touches on it a bit (since we're able to get into Supe's head/hear his thoughts) and in it, as he's flying towards the WE, he's thinking about how he hates to leave Metropolis under the BZ's assault, but he sees the WE as the greater threat and needs to take it down before it renderes the planet uninhabitable

 

[hopefuldreamer]

The whole debate about this isnt even funny anymore because of how wrong one side is. The World Engine did 95% of the damage/death to Metropolis, not Superman or Zod fighting. The damage done to the city was severe so the audience knew Zod and the others meant buisness. This was a serious threat not only to Metropolis but also the world. Quite the contrast to Superman Returns where the threat is ideally located miles away from the city and the only damage it does to Metropolis is broken windows and broken gas pipes.

Also there is this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJjkqVX6Ro

But thats fine because it's cool and all, doesnt matter its Superman destroying 7 skyscrapers and a city block (when he slams Darkseid) just so he could "cut loose" for a moment.

The destruction during the final fight was huge - and needed - to highlight the power of the two super beings. Give the Hulk flying ability and Superman's speed, what would happen? The answer is what happened in Man of Steel.

And in the end, while this may be a more grounded and realistic Superman, its still very much fiction, and still very much a comic book movie.

Think about what you just said. What happened in this fight is what you'd expect to happen if Hulk had all Superman's powers.

I.E. Mindless destruction.

Your kind of agreeing with the people your argueing against without meaning too.

 

[titansupes]

Think about what you just said. What happened in this fight is what you'd expect to happen if Hulk had all Superman's powers.

I.E. Mindless destruction.

That was all caused by Zod, not Superman (bar one or two instances throughout the movie).

 

[Lily Adler]

All those in favor of Lee Smith being the editor for the sequel?

 

[Superman 1265]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/07/16/from-the-31st-century-comes-the-history-of-the-man-of-steel/

I want this so bad.

 

[J.Howlett]

This scene has got to be the most inspirational moment of Man of Steel for me. That scene as a whole stood out as a metaphor for hope. The World Engine keeps thrusting pounds upon pounds of pressure against Superman, symbolizing the cynicism and selfishness of humanity bringing Clark down in his earlier years, when he wanted to help people out and wasn't sure whether humanity deserved it (chilling quote when he said it to the pastor: Clark Kent: That Zod can't be trusted. The problem is, I'm not sure the people of Earth can be either. /Father Leone: Sometimes, you have to take a leap of faith. The trust part comes later.). In spite of all of that, he puts a fist up in resistance, and takes a flight of faith against the pressure and perseveres.

Damn what an awesome scene in an awesome film.

 

[GreenKToo]

This Zod wasn't gonna be tricked into flying off and out of Metropolis like in S:II, nor could superman just grab him up and fly him into space, they were to evenly matched.
No, if superman had chosen not to fight zod in metropolis, then thousands, perhaps millions more would have died.
Zod was just as fast and just as strong, so there was no time for superman to pause and save civilians or worry about what damage was caused.
This wasnt about saving a few, this was about saving EVERYONE on Earth. If some people cant understand that then thats their tough luck.

 

[ChickenScratch]

It was established in the film that destroying Zod's ship wouldn't have stopped the World Engine when Jax-ur said that they (Black Zero) were slaves to the World Engine.

Even IF Superman destroyed Black Zero, the World Machine would have still been running and causing more damage to Earth's atmosphere.

Plus, it would have taken Superman probably a lot more longer to take on Black Zero since he'd have to deal with all of the kryptonians that were on board the vessel and the military couldn't get to the World Machine in time to make a difference.

From the novel he could have taken out either to stop the terraforming. Both ships are doing the job, but if you destroy the black zero you don't send anyone back to the Phantom Zone. Destroying one or the other stops it fine. He can get to the Indian ocean quicker than anyone. Plus, story reason for 2 action scenes.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

This Zod wasn't gonna be tricked into flying off and out of Metropolis like in S:II, nor could superman just grab him up and fly him into space, they were to evenly matched.
No, if superman had chosen not to fight zod in metropolis, then thousands, perhaps millions more would have died.
Zod was just as fast and just as strong, so there was no time for superman to pause and save civilians or worry about what damage was caused.
This wasnt about saving a few, this was about saving EVERYONE on Earth. If some people cant understand that then thats their tough luck.

I think what bothers some is that he doesn't appear to TRY. I'd be content if they had ONE moment in which he performs a super-save in the Metropolis battle. It would add a bit to the characterization of Superman, and give a little weight to the situation by showing WHY that wouldn't work a second time. Buuut, I also disagree with the extreme opinion that hundreds of people died when Supes was smashed into buildings.


In animation EVERYONE assumes that the buildings are empty, and people aren't blaming Superman when it happens in comics

 

[Smallville13]

I will admit it is funny how pre-MOS everyone pointed to that JLU clip of Superman 'in a world of cardboard, cutting loose' as everything a Superman fight should be. And then MOS comes out and an even more vocal crowd (including no doubt some of the people that rallied for that clip) that are like 'distasteful, what about the people in those buildings' rises.

I guess it goes to show, what works for animation (and comics for that matter) doesn't quite translate to live action. I do however think alot of this can be attributed to the grounded tone MOS strives for. If you go for realism, expect people to think about the loss of lives. If you go for lighthearted comedy (Avengers) expect people to not think about it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

"Shwarma!"

Yes, I think that the TONE of MOS caused people to care more about the distruction.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

The whole debate about this isnt even funny anymore because of how wrong one side is. The World Engine did 95% of the damage/death to Metropolis, not Superman or Zod fighting. The damage done to the city was severe so the audience knew Zod and the others meant buisness. This was a serious threat not only to Metropolis but also the world. Quite the contrast to Superman Returns where the threat is ideally located miles away from the city and the only damage it does to Metropolis is broken windows and broken gas pipes.

Also there is this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJjkqVX6Ro

But thats fine because it's cool and all, doesnt matter its Superman destroying 7 skyscrapers and a city block (when he slams Darkseid) just so he could "cut loose" for a moment.

The destruction during the final fight was huge - and needed - to highlight the power of the two super beings. Give the Hulk flying ability and Superman's speed, what would happen? The answer is what happened in Man of Steel.

And in the end, while this may be a more grounded and realistic Superman, its still very much fiction, and still very much a comic book movie.

Nice post , but I just thought the game was funny.

However, I agree with you. I'll even be the first to point out that when Superman punches Zod while they're flying, he punches him over instead of through the buildings. You can see he's doing his best to take the fight higher, but Zod keeps gaining the upper hand and bringing it back down.

The battles felt like a translation of comics and animation to the screen.

 

[GreenKToo]

For me, seeing superman kill zod in order to save the family, showed that he did care about the civilians, and that he would do everything in his power to protect them, including causing himself the ultimate pain, killing.

 

[PacificBoy]

The destruction comes across as mindless because there's no afterthought to it. Yes, the repercussions of Metropolis in ruins and earth having survived a first and potentially last contact with aliens will probably be explored in the sequel, which is brilliant, but it's kinda odd - to me at least - that nothing about the destruction was said or shown or hinted at in the aftermath here.

No Superman emerging with the family and other survivors as the sun breaks through the debris clouds, 'into the light' (or something less hokey), no lingering (or quick one for that matter) wide shot surveying the extent of the damage, showing that the city and the world stared an extinction-level event straight in the face.

Or a city soldiering on after that. A 'city under construction' or 'Metropolis: We're rebuilding' sign or scene or imagery - something. It was a missed opportunity to display the blitz spirit of humanity and inject some smart levity into the seriousness of the situation. And not the "he's kinda hot" level of lightheartedness we got barely 5 minutes into Zod's death.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I see this as opening the door for Metropolis City Of The Future thing from the comics, with Lex rebuilding and owning large swathes of the city.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

The destruction comes across as mindless because there's no afterthought to it. Yes, the repercussions of Metropolis in ruins and earth having survived a first and potentially last contact with aliens will probably be explored in the sequel, which is brilliant, but it's kinda odd - to me at least - that nothing about the destruction was said or shown or hinted at in the aftermath here.

No Superman emerging with the family and other survivors as the sun breaks through the debris clouds, 'into the light' (or something less hokey), no lingering (or quick one for that matter) wide shot surveying the extent of the damage, showing that the city and the world stared an extinction-level event straight in the face.

Or a city soldiering on after that. A 'city under construction' or 'Metropolis: We're rebuilding' sign or scene or imagery - something. It was a missed opportunity to display the blitz spirit of humanity and inject some smart levity into the seriousness of the situation. And not the "he's kinda hot" level of lightheartedness we got barely 5 minutes into Zod's death.

Completely agreed. How can this escape the filmmakers entirely? It seems so obvious that something should have been included. Not one acknowledgement of the aftermath after it is done? This is the only real sore spot in the movie for me.