All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 92

[Tempest]

Y'know I do still wonder if Zod was too much for this film.

Consider this. What if in MOS we just had Superman coming out and dealing with the military and public perception, making it much more tonally consistent with the first half of what we got. They could have used a lot more 'less is more' philosophy with his powers using more practical effects like what Nolan had built with Inception. Making it really keep with the realistic tone. But we still got the lengthy Krypton opening establishing Zod. And then as an after-credits sequence we saw Zod's Phantom Zone satellite smash into debris. Imagine how psyched we'd all be for Zod in the sequel at that point. I realize this makes it literally follow S:TM and SII, but obviously this would be the 21st century update. I dunno. Something to think about.

Nope. They wanted a total, clean break from all previous Superman films, which is why they went this direction. Change the costume, tweak the story, and update Superman's character so that people can relate more with him. That was the purpose of this film, and they succeeded in that respect.

I think part of why this film had some issues at the box office is because of the Superman-stigma. For every person on this forum who thinks the Donner films were the most brilliant thing ever, there are probably 1000 GA members who thought it was stupid. So many people I talked to who didn't see Superman told me "Well, it's Superman. It's kind of cheesy, isn't it?"

A lot of people don't even know that Superman lost the meggings and red underpants.

 

[Tanin]

I still miss the trunks. I wonder if the trunks will be phased out of the comics permanently now that they found a good design.

 

[Moridin]

I didn't like the movie myself, but I think it's clear as day why others might like, even love it. You have this amazing cast assembled with possibly this generation's Superman installed (have to see more of Henry as Clark before declaring definitively), an origin story that takes risks (going the really serious route), a story with big themes and quiet, tender moments, and, of course, Superman action on the silver screen the likes of which have never been seen before.

Whether all the above come together and succeed is up to the individual, but make no bones about it, Man of Steel is THE movie event of the year.

 

[Smallville13]

Nope. They wanted a total, clean break from all previous Superman films, which is why they went this direction. Change the costume, tweak the story, and update Superman's character so that people can relate more with him. That was the purpose of this film, and they succeeded in that respect.

I think part of why this film had some issues at the box office is because of the Superman-stigma. For every person on this forum who thinks the Donner films were the most brilliant thing ever, there are probably 1000 GA members who thought it was stupid. So many people I talked to who didn't see Superman told me "Well, it's Superman. It's kind of cheesy, isn't it?"

A lot of people don't even know that Superman lost the meggings and red underpants.

Well all of that could have been done by not having Zod.

Zod felt like he was there for this video game generation, so they could see Superman fight, thus making Superman 'cool' again.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I still miss the trunks. I wonder if the trunks will be phased out of the comics permanently now that they found a good design.

The classic costume still appears in the weekly Adventures of Superman comic.

 

[Tanin]

The classic costume still appears in the weekly Adventures of Superman comic.

Bah.... The S is too big and he looks 21 in some frames and 35 in others....

Thanks for the heads up though

 

[PacificBoy]

Well, in the sense that it's probably the most highly anticipated blockbuster of the year.

 

[DChero]

Well all of that could have been done by not having Zod.

Zod felt like he was there for this video game generation, so they could see Superman fight, thus making Superman 'cool' again.

I originally thought that Zod was a terrible choice, but after seeing the movie I'm fine with using him early again. I don't think that there's any disputing that Superman needed a physical threat to face, and I like the way that Zod was treated differently than simply being a mirror of Superman.

The reason that this movie happened was to make money. It has nothing to do with passion for a character. If it was determined that they would sell more tickets with an updated Superman then I have no problem with it because it's better than nothing to me.

 

[BH/HHH]

I still miss the trunks. I wonder if the trunks will be phased out of the comics permanently now that they found a good design.

There's plenty of pre New 52 material with the trunks. I don't see a problem with changing with the times at all.

In the comics now as mentioned there's the weekly Adventures of Superman comic and of course the Earth One series.

 

[DChero]

Even in Earth One they darken the trunk so that they aren't as noticeable. I really like that suit though.

 

[Herolee10]

Y'know I do still wonder if Zod was too much for this film.

Consider this. What if in MOS we just had Superman coming out and dealing with the military and public perception, making it much more tonally consistent with the first half of what we got. They could have used a lot more 'less is more' philosophy with his powers using more practical effects like what Nolan had built with Inception. Making it really keep with the realistic tone. But we still got the lengthy Krypton opening establishing Zod. And then as an after-credits sequence we saw Zod's Phantom Zone satellite smash into debris. Imagine how psyched we'd all be for Zod in the sequel at that point. I realize this makes it literally follow S:TM and SII, but obviously this would be the 21st century update. I dunno. Something to think about.

The thing is though, we needed to have a super villain that could take Superman to his physical limits in this film since that has been one of the STRONGEST criticisms that people have had regarding his franchise for a long time and I really doubt that the likes of Metallo or Parasite would have been able to cut it, especially with the former's main advantage at Superman being that he has a heart of Kryptonite within him.

And we'd still have to take some time in order to establish the main villain in the film and I think Zod works just fine with an origin film since he comes with the whole Krypton back story.

Like Goyer said, Zod was the perfect choice in this case for an origin film.

 

[PacificBoy]

Y'know I do still wonder if Zod was too much for this film.

Consider this. What if in MOS we just had Superman coming out and dealing with the military and public perception, making it much more tonally consistent with the first half of what we got. They could have used a lot more 'less is more' philosophy with his powers using more practical effects like what Nolan had built with Inception. Making it really keep with the realistic tone. But we still got the lengthy Krypton opening establishing Zod. And then as an after-credits sequence we saw Zod's Phantom Zone satellite smash into debris. Imagine how psyched we'd all be for Zod in the sequel at that point. I realize this makes it literally follow S:TM and SII, but obviously this would be the 21st century update. I dunno. Something to think about.

I kinda agree. The 'threat to the world' plot, a huge plot undertaking in itself, took time and focus away from the heart of the story - Superman's start. But I guess Snyder and Goyer wanted to reintroduce Superman in a big way while going back to the character's sci-fi origins. A starker departure from Singer's take.

 

[Herolee10]

The thing is though, what other villains could have sufficed for an origin film that would have provided Superman a big challenge when it came to his powers while making their own origin stories within this film make sense and fit within in it?

 

[STARMAN]

There is a lot going on in MOS. Sometimes I feel like they could have actually edited a few minutes from Krypton. Use that time to flesh out another sequence or two.

It's crazy to think how much they were able to jam into this movie.

 

[Herolee10]

To be honest, I feel like if they had allowed the film to have a running time similar to one of the Lord of the Ring films (theatrical versions), where it would be around 2 Hours and 50+ minutes, then I think they could have had more time to flesh things out the way that the story needed to for a film of this scale.

 

[PacificBoy]

The thing is though, what other villains could have sufficed for an origin film that would have provided Superman a big challenge when it came to his powers while making their own origin stories within this film make sense and fit within in it?

True. I don't know Superman's rogues' gallery extensively but I see no other villain that can fit within the emotional centre of this origin tale. Personal preference for a smaller scale, more intimate film aside, I concede that MoS needed to be practical; needed to make Superman cool, relevant again in the eyes of the GA, and that means Superman had to hit someone - hard. Win the majority of the movie-goers (and the box office), kick-start the franchise, and tell the stories we all want to see on screen with the successive films.

 

[Herolee10]

True. I don't know Superman's rogues' gallery extensively but I see no other villain that can fit within the emotional centre of this origin tale. Personal preference for a smaller scale, more intimate film aside, I concede that MoS needed to be practical; needed to make Superman cool, relevant again in the eyes of the GA, and that means Superman had to hit someone - hard. Win the majority of the movie-goers (and the box office), kick-start the franchise, and tell the stories we all want to see on screen with the successive films.

I think that now that they've proven that superman can kick some major ass with his powers with this film, that they'll feel more comfortable with making the action more intimate as opposed to being just massive in scale for MOS 2.

 

[PacificBoy]

To be honest, I feel like if they had allowed the film to have a running time similar to one of the Lord of the Ring films (theatrical versions), where it would be around 2 Hours and 50+ minutes, then I think they could have had more time to flesh things out the way that the story needed to for a film of this scale.

There is a lot going on in MOS. Sometimes I feel like they could have actually edited a few minutes from Krypton. Use that time to flesh out another sequence or two.

It's crazy to think how much they were able to jam into this movie.

Yep. Whatever your feelings are about the movie, you can't deny the script's ambition and scope.

 

[DChero]

The thing is though, what other villains could have sufficed for an origin film that would have provided Superman a big challenge when it came to his powers while making their own origin stories within this film make sense and fit within in it?

The closest in my mind would be Brainiac's run in shrinking Kandor. That's something that the New 52 universe really ran with to introduce Superman to the world.

 

[PacificBoy]

I think that now that they've proven that superman can kick some major ass with his powers with this film, that they'll feel more comfortable with making the action more intimate as opposed to being just massive in scale for MOS 2.

Yup.

 

[Herolee10]

The closest in my mind would be Brainiac's run in shrinking Kandor. That's something that the New 52 universe really ran with to introduce Superman to the world.

Indeed; though to just reference back to Smallville13's post, it would have still been an alien threat with some times to Krypton either way so I think there was just no way of avoiding the main antagonist being an alien for the origin film this time around with what was required for this superman film to deliver.

 

[STARMAN]

With Krypton, Smallville, and Alaska out of the way, it should be easier going forward without having to cram so much in.

 

[Herolee10]

With Krypton, Smallville, and Alaska out of the way, it should be easier going forward without having to cram so much in.

Indeed; though I do hope that with MOS 2, they're able to fully establish Clark into being the Superman that people are more familiar with in terms of his mythology: Daily Planet environment, rescuing people in costume from earth bound calamities/disasters, etc.

And in the same time, I do hope that by the end of MOS 2, they're able to build Superman to a place where he seems the most qualified person to lead the future Justice League team.

 

[DChero]

Indeed; though to just reference back to Smallville13's post, it would have still been an alien threat with some times to Krypton either way so I think there was just no way of avoiding the main antagonist being an alien for the origin film this time around with what was required for this superman film to deliver.

True, I was jsut making the point that it's a villain that we haven't seen.

I'd like to see MoS2 introduce Lex (with battlesuit) and Metallo. That could set up for Brainiac to be introduced in MoS3, which shows off the Brainiac/Lex dynamic.

 

[The Watchman]

Lex Parasite for me. Have the story be smaller, much more character driven, less world threat more personal. Save Brainiac for the 3rd.