All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

[KRYPTON INC.]

I can see a good story coming out of any way they want to do it really. My druthers is that the Amazons have a "Paradise" but it's flawed in that we are talking about a place that has a supernatural underpinning to it's success to a large degree and one that is founded on the idea that the solution to the world's problems is to cut yourself off from it's diversity and complexity rather than engage with it.

This is something I REALLY hope the script and the director thinks about. Diana is the ultimate product of the Amazon culture. In some ways she is the living embodiment of it's strengths but realistically she should also contain it's flaws as well, and her arc should not simply be her hectoring "man's world" but also seeing the imperfections of the Amazon's ways and her sisters own biases and blind spots. THAT is an arc and is not just Mary Sue goes on an adventure, which is NOT what I want from a WW movie.

 

[KillerWolf]

Now that Suicide Squad has done filming, this movie has my full attention. I am currently awaiting casting news WB!!!

Same here. Actually it has my attention for quite a while now.

I love that I'm being called Hazard all of the sudden today . I miss that username and the confusion it created. Good times.

Good times indeed. t:

As a matter of fact, every now and then I do tend to call you Hazz, only to correct myself in the last moment. Slip of the tongue.

I kind of think that they'll be pulling bits and pieces from multiple different WW eras/runs. Suicide Squad seems to be doing that as well.

I am of same mind. Besides, Steve Trevor has been cast and he was nowhere to be found in Azzarello's run, nor does he seem to play such an important role in WW mythos in New 52. Mixture of old and new seems most likely.

 

[jokesonm3]

My biggest concern about this film is not Gal or the director or the setting but rather the script, multiple screenwriters working on different scenes of the same script honestly sounds like a cause of concern, ideas like that usually don't turn in the best bread, i mean correct me if im wrong but wasn't one of the issues of the F4 film a messy script?

However what im hoping for in order to fix this issue is by having the screenwriters have multiple meetings to discuss the script in general and have Jason Fusch as the 'overseer' of the script with some input from both Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns, that would put things at ease.

 

[HighFivingMF]

My biggest concern about this film is not Gal or the director or the setting but rather the script, multiple screenwriters working on different scenes of the same script honestly sounds like a cause of concern, ideas like that usually don't turn in the best bread, i mean correct me if im wrong but wasn't one of the issues of the F4 film a messy script?

However what im hoping for in order to fix this issue is by having the screenwriters have multiple meetings to discuss the script in general and have Jason Fusch as the 'overseer' of the script with some input from both Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns, that would put things at ease.

I think it's less "screenwriters working on different scenes" and more "different writers will pitch different action scenes and story beats based on a pre-conceived outline and a single writer will work the best ones together."

 

[brandeezy89]

I'm pretty sure Jason was in competition with other writers to develop the best script based off of the outline WB gave them. Turns out he ended up having the best story and screenplay out the bunch

 

[jokesonm3]

I think it's less "screenwriters working on different scenes" and more "different writers will pitch different action scenes and story beats based on a pre-conceived outline and a single writer will work the best ones together."

On the THR interview Greg Silverman did mention this:

Every project is different. On some projects, we have multiple writers working together. In some cases, we put writers together who have never been a team together. And sometimes, there is only one writer whose voice is right. In the case of Wonder Woman, the right approach was to have writers pitching different scenes within the framework we created.

im just hoping that this 'framework' is more unified then what i believe tbh.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/warner-bros-film-chief-wonder-799408

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Good times indeed. t:

As a matter of fact, every now and then I do tend to call you Hazz, only to correct myself in the last moment. Slip of the tongue.

I don't really mind what you call me so long as it's not a swear. t:

 

[Charlatan]

I think a collaboration with a group of writers can result in something great. as long as they stick to the main outline and don't let it meander too much. some writers may think of one little thing that they will use but it's something that really reveals a lot about the character that another writer may not have though of. maybe it's just a line of dialogue. maybe it's just some small detail in a scene like a prop or set piece. but it adds to the story. can you imagine John Wick if they had left out the puppy? Sometimes it's something small that can really bring out the feels.

 

[KillerWolf]

I don't really mind what you call me so long as it's not a swear. t:

Nevah.

I think a collaboration with a group of writers can result in something great. as long as they stick to the main outline and don't let it meander too much. some writers may think of one little thing that they will use but it's something that really reveals a lot about the character that another writer may not have though of. maybe it's just a line of dialogue. maybe it's just some small detail in a scene like a prop or set piece. but it adds to the story. can you imagine John Wick if they had left out the puppy? Sometimes it's something small that can really bring out the feels.

I agree that it can, though I'd consider that an exception much more than a rule.

I think it's best to have one writer that does his homework on the subject well that collaborates closely with the director than to have a room full of writers, but I can see the benefits of this approach of giving a framework to several screenwriters and choose the best script. Though I'd rather combine elements from few scripts than simply choose one of them, but I suppose that it would presents a problem regarding the budget of having to pay more than just one of them...

 

[jokesonm3]

I wonder if there going to push for an all star cast for this film or stick to more unknown but talented actors/actresses in order to reduce the budget?

 

[Fallen Angel]

They should surround Gal with accomplished and talented people. Similar to what WB did with Cavil in MOS. Which had Adams/Costner/Lane/Crowe/Shannon.

 

[Bwahaha!]

I can see a good story coming out of any way they want to do it really. My druthers is that the Amazons have a "Paradise" but it's flawed in that we are talking about a place that has a supernatural underpinning to it's success to a large degree and one that is founded on the idea that the solution to the world's problems is to cut yourself off from it's diversity and complexity rather than engage with it.

This is something I REALLY hope the script and the director thinks about. Diana is the ultimate product of the Amazon culture. In some ways she is the living embodiment of it's strengths but realistically she should also contain it's flaws as well, and her arc should not simply be her hectoring "man's world" but also seeing the imperfections of the Amazon's ways and her sisters own biases and blind spots. THAT is an arc and is not just Mary Sue goes on an adventure, which is NOT what I want from a WW movie.

Pretty much everything you've mentioned has been addressed in the comics during one run or another. In the New 52, they even let men onto the island in an effort to be more inclusive.

All that said, the only diversity the Amazons are missing out on is the male gender. Men have been running the world and screwing things up for untold millennia. I'm not so sure the Amazons got the "no men thing" wrong, lol.

 

[Bwahaha!]

On a different note, Gal has a surprisingly awesome singing voice. It'd be pretty cool if she sang something for the WW soundtrack. Even cooler if it became a hit song. Here's a clip of her voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdFANiyCcjw

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Pretty much everything you've mentioned has been addressed in the comics during one run or another. In the New 52, they even let men onto the island in an effort to be more inclusive.

All that said, the only diversity the Amazons are missing out on is the male gender. Men have been running the world and screwing things up for untold millennia. I'm not so sure the Amazons got the "no men thing" wrong, lol.

We are speaking of the film specifically though. As a fan of WW I know that they have tackled the Amazon's culture from a variety of angles up to and including the New 52 run in the comics, though I feel that most "critiques" that have come up are weak tea frankly, and things like Azz's stuff with his rapist Amazons putting male children into slavery is over the line actually.

Which also brings up another issue BTW... WHAT is the take for the Amazon culture precisely going to be? Mary Sue land? Secret fascist utopia? What? This goes into what I raised as well... Even if it leans more towards a perfect, flawless society it still then begs how WW can critique the outside world without coming off as a young naive Princess that doesn't have a clue about what life is really like for mortals in this world, male and female, where questions of bodily needs come wrapped up part and parcel with hard choices that have to be made by every individual and are not the result of some supernatural fiat going on in the present or from the past.

And the Amazon's may have a diversity of body types/ phenotypes but in the end there really isn't diversity of culture. It's still the AMAZON culture that is the end all be all of their world. They actually haven't been exposed to or engaged with the outside influences for thousands of years in any direct manner, mystical ways of viewing the outside world not withstanding.

These points can make for interesting stories I believe, and add to Diana's arc. Having her just be perfect and the Amazons have no blind spots ect. would make for a lifeless tale and a heroine that would likely grate on the nerves.


Heroes that are put on pedestals tend to not be able to engage with an audience that while seeking escapism still live in the real world and have some expectations that their heroes and the stories about them can engage with the wider world and culture in some way.

 

[Silliminite]

The very prospect of the first live-action WW solo, and everything that comes with it - casting announcements, set pics, trailers etc. gets me very excited. I'm rooting big-time for Gal to be a success in BvS.

 

[Bwahaha!]

We are speaking of the film specifically though. As a fan of WW I know that they have tackled the Amazon's culture from a variety of angles up to and including the New 52 run in the comics, though I feel that most "critiques" that have come up are weak tea frankly, and things like Azz's stuff with his rapist Amazons putting male children into slavery is over the line actually.

Which also brings up another issue BTW... WHAT is the take for the Amazon culture precisely going to be? Mary Sue land? Secret fascist utopia? What? This goes into what I raised as well... Even if it leans more towards a perfect, flawless society it still then begs how WW can critique the outside world without coming off as a young naive Princess that doesn't have a clue about what life is really like for mortals in this world, male and female, where questions of bodily needs come wrapped up part and parcel with hard choices that have to be made by every individual and are not the result of some supernatural fiat going on in the present or from the past.

And the Amazon's may have a diversity of body types/ phenotypes but in the end there really isn't diversity of culture. It's still the AMAZON culture that is the end all be all of their world. They actually haven't been exposed to or engaged with the outside influences for thousands of years in any direct manner, mystical ways of viewing the outside world not withstanding.

These points can make for interesting stories I believe, and add to Diana's arc. Having her just be perfect and the Amazons have no blind spots ect. would make for a lifeless tale and a heroine that would likely grate on the nerves.


Heroes that are put on pedestals tend to not be able to engage with an audience that while seeking escapism still live in the real world and have some expectations that their heroes and the stories about them can engage with the wider world and culture in some way.

Yeah, I know you're talking about film. And I support threading many of these themes through the WW movie. It's just that all the stuff you've mentioned I already associated with WW from one run or another in the comics.

As for Amazon culture, I'd be pissed if they did the Mary Sue crap. Snoozefest! But secret fascist utopia could be interesting. Even the man-raping murderous Amazons could be intriguing as long as the Amazons go through their own arc and evolve from such primitive ways by the end of the WW trilogy (assuming they'll be three movies, fingers crossed!). Of course, Diana had no part in the rapes/murders in the book, and I wouldn't want her to have ever participated in the films either.

 

[Willi Berg]

Lennox? Guy made from stone from Azzarello's run? One that went to his death chanting "we are Millwall, no one likes us, we don't care"?

Interesting, if true... it would mean that they're really taking New 52 WW as a template, and in this particular case, I don't actually mind New 52 approach.

With WW reportedly the daughter of Zeus in the movies as well (stated by producer Charles Roven), it can create those connections on Earth, where she would have half brothers and sisters on Earth who are also demigods like her.

If the Lennox rumour is even true, they can have a character WW is related to in World War 2 and, if they wanted, Lennox can have a relationship with Helena Sandsmark and they could have a child, Cassie Sandsmark (Wonder Girl).

Even if they don't use Lennox, they can use other characters. The New 52 does make it easier in that regard, in terms of having gods and demigods in human form and have it more connected. Instead of the Olympian gods being these obscure characters humans rarely see.

As for Amazon culture, I'd be pissed if they did the Mary Sue crap. Snoozefest! But secret fascist utopia could be interesting. Even the man-raping murderous Amazons could be intriguing as long as the Amazons go through their own arc and evolve from such primitive ways by the end of the WW trilogy (assuming they'll be three movies, fingers crossed!). Of course, Diana had no part in the rapes/murders in the book, and I wouldn't want her to have ever participated in the films either.

I wonder how far they would want to go with that, with the New 52 depiction of how Amazons treat their sons. If they do go that way, I like your idea, that it could be a way to show how Amazons become more accepting of men and the outside world.

 

[KillerWolf]

With WW reportedly the daughter of Zeus in the movies as well (stated by producer Charles Roven), it can create those connections on Earth, where she would have half brothers and sisters on Earth who are also demigods like her.

If the Lennox rumour is even true, they can have a character WW is related to in World War 2 and, if they wanted, Lennox can have a relationship with Helena Sandsmark and they could have a child, Cassie Sandsmark (Wonder Girl).

Even if they don't use Lennox, they can use other characters. The New 52 does make it easier in that regard, in terms of having gods and demigods in human form and have it more connected. Instead of the Olympian gods being these obscure characters humans rarely see.

Indeed. There are some interesting possibilities with this approach, when it comes to Wondy's nature as demi-goddess. I'd definitely like to see others like her. And, taking Zeus' reputation into account, I believe she would have plenty of half sisters and half brothers. t:

 

[John-An]

Many requests for Chinese crew, while Hollywood is once again upon us and will be shot in Basilicata "Wonder Woman" Patty Jenkins starring Gal Gadot (Furious 7, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice) and Chris Pine.

https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/wonder-woman-sar%C3%A0-girato-anche-basilicata-075908528.html

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Basilicata Italy! It's a great pick for Paradise Island!

Hope they film at Maratea's beach too.

 

[flickchick85]

 

[John-An]

 

[Dr.]

https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/wonder-woman-sarà-girato-anche-basilicata-075908528.html

Chinese crew?

 

[Sawyer]

Yaaaaaaaas.

 

[jokesonm3]

Oh my god! oh my god! oh my god i'm excited!!