All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[harryoscop]

 

[Black Narcissus]

Hopefully the success and quality of WW continues on with other great female lead films.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Yeah, the climax sucked big ones. The rest of the movie was fantastic though.

[blackout]It was basically Band of Brothers with a superhero. The first moment that Diana steps onto a battle field in full WW gear was one of the most inspirational moments in any comic book movie.[/blackout]

 

[Boom]

Regarding the very premature Oscar talk.

There is some precedent, ever since the Academy expanded the field to nine nominees. People tend to forget that films like Inception, District 9, and Avatar are Best Picture nominees. The Academy tried to be "more inclusive" following TDK's snub, so in 2009 and 2010 we did see some mainstream films break through. However, in recent years the Academy has fallen back to its old ways, using almost all nine slots on the typical Oscar-bait films (with the occasional exception). So there is precedent, but recent history says it's not likely.

However, it's important to remember that the Oscars are extremely political. And without getting into world politics too much, let's just say that the marginalization of women is a hot button issue right now, and it feels like the world in general is in a pretty bleak, negative place. So for a film like this to come along and make a strong statement about hope, love and female empowerment, I don't think it can be outright ignored. It also helps that it received strong marks from critics, appears to be a hit with audiences, and is being praised within the Hollywood community. It's firing on all cylinders. And again, without diminishing this film to a political agenda, it does touch on a current issue.

But it's only June. Even if this year yields a weak crop of Oscar-bait films in November and December, we'll be seven months removed from this film's release by the time the Academy members start voting. Is this film loved enough within the Academy to stay in their minds for the next half-year?

If WB thinks it has a serious chance, they'll need to consider either a theatrical re-release this winter, or some additional Academy screenings at least. After that, who knows? I don't think it will get a Best Picture nod, but it sure would be pleasant to at least humor this discussion again after nine years.

And just imagine Campea's reaction if Gadot got a Best Actress nod.

 

[Dark Raven]

What DC Needs to Learn From Wonder Woman’s Success

http://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-dc-movie-universe-future/

Spoiler

The future of the DC Extended Universe has been looking grim, with a decidedly mixed response to early entries Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, director difficulties and uncertain timelines for The Flash, Justice League Dark and The Batman, and the loss of Zack Snyder from Justice League in the wake of a family tragedy. But then came Wonder Woman.

Director Patty Jenkins’ film, which opened this weekend to critical acclaim and an estimated domestic box office of $101.4 million, may have single-handedly revitalized the struggling DCEU, in part because it’s so disconnected from the rest of that cinematic universe. However, before we wade into the best lesson Warner Bros. and DC Entertainment can learn from Wonder Woman’s success, let’s look at the many things it does right that, sadly, so many other superhero films tend to get wrong.

Wonder Woman is easily among the best superhero movies since 1978’s Superman. Filled with color and humor, it’s a joy to watch; it brings back a sense of wonder. With other films there may be a tendency to gloss over the destruction and the superpowers as tropes of the genre, but here here there’s a sense of awe as Gal Gadot’s Diana walks across a World War I battlefield and fights dozens of soldiers. In that moment audiences feel that she really is a superhero.

While it may not seem as there’s no concrete lesson to learn from that, there certainly is. One of the reasons we can see these superpowers as amazing is because we have a ground-level view of this fictional world, courtesy of of Steve Trevor and his fellow soldiers. Through them we can experience what it’s like when a god drops into their reality. In many other superhero films, the central protagonists are primary focus, so the audience experiences the story from their perspective. But in Wonder Woman, we see what gods look like to mere mortals — and it’s incredible.

That’s tied into another important lesson to learn from Wonder Woman: Let superheroes be super. Think about Man of Steel, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises and Batman v Superman; their plots can be distilled to “Big Scary Person is mad at Batman/Superman, and hurts a bunch of other people to get to the hero.” The protagonist isn’t so much being selfless and going out of his way to help others as he is dealing with a crazy person who wants to kill him.

However, the best superhero movies are about someone fighting for the common people. That’s another lesson to be taken from Wonder Woman: Focus on the common people in danger. When Sokovia is attacked in Marvel’s Avengers: Age of Ultron or Metropolis is under fire in Man of Steel/Dawn of Justice, you know it’s happening to hurt the hero. What we see most is the hero’s pain, which is what we care about. But in Wonder Woman, the focus is on the pain of the people in the war, and Diana doing everything she can to save them.

Let superheroes be super; don’t make them have super-powered hissy fits. It’s not that difficult.

That said, even in the darkness, Wonder Woman has humor and heart. One of the biggest complaints about the DCEU movies thus far is that they’re all style and no substance, that there’s no heart to any of them. Well, Wonder Woman has heart.

We’d mention making more movies starring women, but with Wonder Woman well positioned for a sequel, and Gotham City Sirens and Batgirl in development, the DCEU would seem to have that under control. Or, at least it’s doing a heck of a lot better than Marvel Studios.

There are a lot of lessons that can be taken from Wonder Woman, but perhaps the most important one the DCEU should learn is that these characters thrive … alone.

While it may seem a small thing, one of the most notable aspects of Wonder Woman is that the film — aside from a brief note at the beginning to set up the story — stands on its own. There are no surprise cameos, and no post-credits sequence to tease Justice League or even a sequel. The film doesn’t set up a long-running arc or name-drop other heroes — both things the otherwise-spectacular Captain America: The Winter Soldier spent time doing.

Compare Wonder Woman to Batman v Superman. You can’t get through the titles alone without seeing the stark difference: Wonder Woman is about the character, while Dawn of Justice was about setting up a shared universe.

But here’s the dirty little secret: DC doesn’t need a universe. For Marvel to beat its competitors at the theater, the studio needed to create a cinematic universe. Despite being a good film in its own right, 2008’s Iron Man is primarily remembered as the beginning of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But here’s the thing — DC doesn’t need that. Its characters have always stood alone, with their own cities to guard, their own worlds to protect. They don’t need to see each other every Tuesday; sure, having a Justice League film isn’t the worst idea ever, but keep the characters separate aside from that.

Wonder Woman works because it’s a movie about Wonder Woman — not a universe, not the sequels, and not other heroes. Given Wonder Woman’s success, the DCEU should take a lesson from that. What will happen next? We’re not certain, but if the DCEU learns anything from Wonder Woman, it’s sure to be brighter for it.

 

[MrGamer2558]

I think WB will give it the "For Your Consideration" treatment later this year, but it won't get anything major. Logan is the only legit chance this year the genre has at breaking the mold.

 

[Boom]

For the record, I didn't have much issue with the third act, which was a pleasant surprise.

Spoiler

Some dodgy CGI here and there, and a bit monologue-y, but it's nice that the final battle informed Diana's development as a character instead of just being a cluster**** of special effects.

 

[Dark Raven]

Regarding the very premature Oscar talk.

There is some precedent, ever since the Academy expanded the field to nine nominees. People tend to forget that films like Inception, District 9, and Avatar have Best Picture nods. The Academy tried to be "more inclusive" following TDK's snub, so in 2009 and 2010 we did see some mainstream films break through. However, in recent years the Academy has fallen back to its old ways, using almost all nine nominations on the typical Oscar-bait films (with the occasional exception). So there is precedent, but recent history says it's not likely.

However, it's important to remember that the Oscars are extremely political. And without getting into world politics too much, let's just say that the marginalization of women is a hot button issue right now, and it feels like the world is in a pretty bleak place. So for a film like this to come along and make a strong statement about female empowerment and hope, I don't think it can be outright ignored. It also helps that it received strong marks from critics, appears to be a hit with audiences, and is being praised within the Hollywood community. It's firing on all cylinders.

But it's only June. Even if this year yields a weak crop of Oscar-bait films, we'll be seven months removed from this film's release by the time the Academy members start voting. Is this film loved enough within the Academy to stay in their minds for the next half-year?

If WB thinks it has a serious chance, they'll need to consider either a theatrical re-release this winter, or some additional Academy screenings at least. After that, who knows? I don't think it will get it, but it sure would be pleasant to at least humor this discussion again after nine years.

And just imagine Campea's reaction is Gadot got a Best Actress nod.

Campea: I don't think Gal will ever be WW. I know it's Jaimie Alexander's.

Gal gets the role.

Campea: ****!! Well she's not even going to be good in this at all. She can't act to save her life.

Gal gets universally praised by the critics for her acting.

Campea: Ok, well I admit the film is good, but it's not because of Gal. It's not Shakespeare. She won't ever be playing in Hamlet or Othello.

Gal's next two roles are as Ophelia and Desdemona.

Campea: Ok, well that happened. But she's no way going to get a nomination.

Gal gets a nomination.

Campea: ****! Where did that come from? Well she'll never win best actress.

Gal wins best actress.

Campea: Double ****! Well, Gal will never be as good at moving the goalposts as me!

 

[-Arya-]

For the record, I didn't have much issue with the third act, which was a pleasant surprise.

Spoiler

Some dodgy CGI here and there, and a bit monologue-y, but it's nice that the final battle informed Diana's development as a character instead of just being a cluster**** of special effects.

Spoiler

I loved that it didn't feel like action for the sake of action. It has a purpose, it helped Diana's character growth and showcased her compassion. The fighting was cool too but again, unlike Snyder's climaxes this fight has a purpose. I really liked it.

 

[Broseph44]

I loved the 3rd act/final battle. Thought it was great. I mean I also enjoyed the MOS and BvS ones as well. But WW's was very well done.

 

[Black Narcissus]

You know there is something poetic about WW being a critical and financial hit. The history of the character deserves this. I hope all the other female lead films are good too, but this would not taste as sweet had it been any other female character to do so first.Like, I'm glad it wasn't captain marvel first, ya know? Full circle type isssh.

I'm also really high.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Ok just got back from seeing and yes maybe the most rewarding cinematic experience I've had in the past 17 years since X-Men started the modern comic movie era. Gal Gadot embodied WW like I haven't seen since the likes of Christopher Reeves. It was excellently directed. I was genuinely speachless by the end of the film.

As one of the few men who would describe themselves a feminist I felt every ounce of emotion this film had to offer. I've never cried during a movie but this film had me so misty eyed (on several occasions) I had to hide my face from the woman I came with. And then the same thing for the look of jubilation that was plastered on my face throughout the time I wasn't choking back tears.

Again Gal gives the most earnest and charismatic performance of a female lead action film since Geena Davis in The Long Kiss Good Night (one of my favorite movies of all time).

Thrilling with a true message of tollerance, peace and love.
I

 

[Boom]

I grinned like an idiot during the No Man's Land sequence.

Steve: "You can't go out there."
Diana: "**** that."
*Music swells*

 

[aNarcHy2day]

Okay, here's where I stand- WW's chances of a BP nom probably depends on how good Dunkirk is. Because, a major chunk of it is a well executed WWI film while being a Superhero film and that would probably be the Oscar pitch. But if Dunkirk is really good that's the one WB will be pushing. If it isn't, even then WW has a VERY slim chance of being nominated.

Now, while I really loved Logan, it's emotional beats do come from the fact that this is the conclusion to a 17 year long journey for two beloved characters. Even one of it's major themes is the death of people we don't even see on screen. Now, that works excellently for a fan as it adds another emotional layer to the movie but someone watching it cold would probably not relate to that extent. I am certain someone watching it cold would REALLY like the movie but would they like it enough for a nom?

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I loved the 3rd act/final battle. Thought it was great. I mean I also enjoyed the MOS and BvS ones as well. But WW's was very well done.

I agree I cried 3xin WW, twice in BvS and didn't cry in MoS. I got the same message from all of them, life sux people suck but you keep on fighting for when it doesn't. I just feel WW did it the best.

 

[Dave McFly]

I grinned like an idiot during the No Man's Land sequence.

Steve: "You can't go out there."
Diana: "**** that."
*Music swells*

^nice

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

No Mans Land wasn't that great. The beach, village and climax were much more impressive.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

About No Man's Land scene:

Spoiler

I feel dumb that it was on my second watch that I realized Diana was putting her tiara on when she had her back to Steve before telling him, "That's what I'm going to do." I thought she was just shaking her hair loose and it was being played in really slow slow-motion. Lol.

 

[Gee]

HMV closed all of their stores here.

Only available steelbook editions are at Best Buy.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[Broseph44]

I'll be buying the Steelbook for sure.

 

[Black Narcissus]

HMV closed all of their stores here.

Only available steelbook editions are at Best Buy.

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler

Is that another Mondo poster?