Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - Part 19

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[zenith16]

posted by DrCosmic


That's still different. You have the advantage of not having a story she is supposed to fit into, so you can craft a story that "just so happens" to require her. However having a need for a bat-character doesn't make her the best candidate. It still makes more sense logistically to bring over someone from the packed Arrow squad or a reformed Assassin, they'd still have the requisite baggage, but not the baggage of a resurrection storyline which doesn't help the story you're pitching. The best choice in that scenario, honestly, would be Deathstroke.

If I were doing it, and again, this is creating a story from the ground up that requires her, I would focus on Rip Hunter's mission, one that involves multiple/alternate realities, and pull a Sara who never died from such an alternate reality, a reality that plays a role in the upcoming events. I think that's the Sara fans want anyway, not some hackneyed retcon. They want Sara to never have died, so... give them a Sara who didn't. Go one better: in her reality, Laurel died! Instant faves. That fact can be a large or small piece in the story later, where Rip Hunter's plan revolves around her being from an alternate reality so she's not affected by MacGuffin X, that she's 'the chosen one' in that sense. In that way, she is the best possible character for the story. There are other stories you can create to do the same of course.

Alternate reality's???? while that's cool. there still will one version of sara in the grave. There would still be others of the fan base that have problem with it sadly. Cause of those that want to keep stuff like that out of this show.

while I'd find it cool , there are those that would want to say its too much (there's always that some how) like having Oliver fight side by side with Hal Jordan will complain even more . cause the latter of the characters has powers make & him look not as cool . which I don't buy ay more with how marvel treats hawk eye with their movies with other super powered heroes . Especially with what happened with the cross over team up of brave & the bold ether.

It's still Oliver's show in the end having the occasional guess star like they did with Barry is fine. so yeah let them explore that & alternate reality's too


So I say bring on Hal with John Stuart as his galactic law enforcement partner fighting corrupt corporate using alien tech will be good for Oliver . it's better the him fight cereal killers as we've seen the writers of this show can't handle mystery's at all. sorry to say. they don't know detective work & were terrible at it, which lead to Malcolm use of thea in the first place of plot by the writers of this show .


Sad for the creators that are owned by a publisher that call them selves Detective comics too. Of all thing's.

 

[Seb]

Oh god, DrCosmic, now I'm having my Flashpoint dreams all over again. I absolutely love it when characters visit alternate realities. I'm having so many dreams, and it would be so cool to see. If it were an Earth [insert no.] Sara, it could also be an alt. Snart who is a hero. I'd kinda like a Good Cold vs. Bad Cold showdown, though I still think that the show would be too crowded for Snart to be playing for the angels (and that brief showdown, while awesome, would not be worth the baggage it would bring) so he will likely be normal villainous Cold.

I kinda wonder whether having Laurel as evil on this hypothetical Sara's Earth, thus giving Cassidy an opportunity to show off a truly badass Black Canary before Rip Hunter 'borrows' Sara for his mission. Generally, alt. realities can be really great on TV/film to give actor's opportunities to play very different characters and show off their range.

 

[Mikelus]

I totally agree, characters from alternate Earths would be much more interesting than the whole resurrection business. This way, the dead remain dead and stakes high, while providing great potential conflict between these alternate versions and the current characters from this universe. An "Earth 2 Sara" could be the Manhunter Arrow's Kate Spencer never was. t:

 

[SpideyVille]

I feel like with this .. live action is going to start becoming as complicated as comics have been for years.

Personally, I like having a definite version of a character of a story, but with all the movies coming out, and crosses between characters like the Flash, I feel like even if they were to say those are alternate universe versions of the same character, it can just start to get way too messy.

 

[zenith16]

^^ I rest my case I did say that would cause problem for some of the fan base. I high lighted it in red now too. it's just becoming more difficult. So flash back stories for Sara before she came back to starling it is. oy.

 

[Human Torch]

I feel like with this .. live action is going to start becoming as complicated as comics have been for years.

Personally, I like having a definite version of a character of a story, but with all the movies coming out, and crosses between characters like the Flash, I feel like even if they were to say those are alternate universe versions of the same character, it can just start to get way too messy.

Yeah,I could do without "Earth 2 Sara" or whatever. I certainly don't prefer it to Lazarus Pit/Cloning to bring her back.

 

[DrCosmic]

I feel like with this .. live action is going to start becoming as complicated as comics have been for years.

Personally, I like having a definite version of a character of a story, but with all the movies coming out, and crosses between characters like the Flash, I feel like even if they were to say those are alternate universe versions of the same character, it can just start to get way too messy.

That's part of why the film division doesn't allow multiple versions of characters. All characters in every medium are and will be definitive with the exception of The Flash (if the movie even goes with Barry). There is no mess.

Now if you feel like having a Sara Lance that is alive while one Sara is dead is way too messy, hey, different strokes, but there are no other competitions for definitive version outside of The Flash.

Alternate reality's???? while that's cool. there still will one version of sara in the grave. There would still be others of the fan base that have problem with it sadly. Cause of those that want to keep stuff like that out of this show.

while I'd find it cool , there are those that would want to say its too much (there's always that some how) like having Oliver fight side by side with Hal Jordan will complain even more . cause the latter of the characters has powers make & him look not as cool . which I don't buy ay more with how marvel treats hawk eye with their movies with other super powered heroes . Especially with what happened with the cross over team up of brave & the bold ether.

It's still Oliver's show in the end having the occasional guess star like they did with Barry is fine. so yeah let them explore that & alternate reality's too

So I say bring on Hal with John Stuart as his galactic law enforcement partner fighting corrupt corporate using alien tech will be good for Oliver . it's better the him fight cereal killers as we've seen the writers of this show can't handle mystery's at all. sorry to say. they don't know detective work & were terrible at it, which lead to Malcolm use of thea in the first place of plot by the writers of this show .

Sad for the creators that are owned by a publisher that call them selves Detective comics too. Of all thing's.

Are there any fans of Sara that would be opposed to it being an Alternate Reality version? And while I, more than most, would want to keep powers and high level sci-fi out of Arrow, Sara's not going to be on Arrow, she's going to be on the CW Teamup Show, which, incidentally, features "Traveler" who is a time traveler... so, people who want to keep that stuff out of Arrow have nothing to worry about AND are going to have to deal with Time Travel and the associated changes to reality that come with those stories being in the new show regardless.

I think it's interesting that people want Arrow to not be Arrow anymore, but basically be The Flash with a bow and arrow instead of super speed. Even Hawkeye in the MCU gets a tiny part and a small contribution to the team. Me personally, stories of Ollie doing shenanigans and taking down Sinestro doesn't appeal to me. Ollie should be outclassed by anything that gives a fully charged GL any trouble, just like Hawkeye is outclassed by anything that gives Thor any trouble.

 

[zenith16]

That's part of why the film division doesn't allow multiple versions of characters. All characters in every medium are and will be definitive with the exception of The Flash (if the movie even goes with Barry). There is no mess.

Now if you feel like having a Sara Lance that is alive while one Sara is dead is way too messy, hey, different strokes, but there are no other competitions for definitive version outside of The Flash.



Are there any fans of Sara that would be opposed to it being an Alternate Reality version? And while I, more than most, would want to keep powers and high level sci-fi out of Arrow, Sara's not going to be on Arrow, she's going to be on the CW Teamup Show, which, incidentally, features "Traveler" who is a time traveler... so, people who want to keep that stuff out of Arrow have nothing to worry about AND are going to have to deal with Time Travel and the associated changes to reality that come with those stories being in the new show regardless.

I think it's interesting that people want Arrow to not be Arrow anymore, but basically be The Flash with a bow and arrow instead of super speed. Even Hawkeye in the MCU gets a tiny part and a small contribution to the team. Me personally, stories of Ollie doing shenanigans and taking down Sinestro doesn't appeal to me. Ollie should be outclassed by anything that gives a fully charged GL any trouble, just like Hawkeye is outclassed by anything that gives Thor any trouble.

I'm sure with the marvel movies hawk eye won't have any easy time if at all, but will have time to shine regardless.

As to arrow there are ways to keep it the same with out it getting overly crazy. but if we also want to see him have fun or be a wise cracker he only seem's to do that when the writers have Barry pay him a visit & I have the same feeling that will be the same case with Hal Jordan his best buddy if they introduce him to this universe.

one short cross over of sorts won't hurt it ether since people loved Brave & the bold . Also to solve this issue let the Lantern's duke it out with each other only. it's their persoal fight warrior's honer & all that.

Let Oliver handle the other people like the corporate Hench men using the tech gun & the head Ceo that contracted Sinestro's help to acquire the alien tech. it's easy to keep it simple that way. other wise he has trick arrows tech versus tech.

As to the alternate reality idea. As I said & I can speak only for my self I'd be fine with the detail you stated. but others are still thinking that version of Sara will have to head to starling no matter what if she lives & the writers like have problem where have the characters on the same team at each others throats as they told ET online news cause to them it's what makes the show or stories they make interesting. so they will make her come there. sadly the only way to deal with idea of those heroes as an anthology is to only tell the story of what Sara did befor came back to starling before she was fully killed off & her family found out she was a live the first time around, cause sadly the fan base will never agree to have a live again present day.

There are 3 sides here literally with the fanbase. & the truth isn't part of this one ether.

It's the only way to avoid the web 3 corners of thought on how to bring her back to a close & it's the flash back story of what she was doi before people found she was a live the first time .

Cause the other two option's will have fan base at odds while one will satisfiable (begrudgingly ) with the lesser of three seeing fan base duking it out.

 

[Arach Knight]

I feel like with this .. live action is going to start becoming as complicated as comics have been for years.

Personally, I like having a definite version of a character of a story, but with all the movies coming out, and crosses between characters like the Flash, I feel like even if they were to say those are alternate universe versions of the same character, it can just start to get way too messy.

Warner Bros. has pretty much always had multiple iterations of their characters across media. It may be a dubious strategy, but it isn't all that bad. Smallville was on and successful, even when Superman Returns was in theatres. I don't recall anyone ever being confused, because each iteration of the character represented a different take that stood apart. I suppose what I mean is that even though it is the same character, neither medium was trying to tell the same story with that character.

Archie Comics is a strong example of this principle. There are multiple Archie titles that cover different periods of Archie's life, and in some cases, the same period of his life, but in different ways. I believe at one point, there were sixteen different Archie titles, that were mostly unrelated to each other. And that has never been a problem for Archie.

The mythic aspect of these characters lends to their ability to be featured in multiple stories that aren't connected. I feel that most people care more about seeing a particular story told in a particular medium, than they do about each and every medium telling the exact same story with the same characters. In fact, that is something that bothers me about Marvel's approach to Agents of Shield. I find the show to be terribly boring, and after ten episodes, gave up. But so much happens in that series that relates to things that happen in the film (e.g. the state of Shield, post Winter Soldier), that I feel screwed out of the narrative. I either have to watch a show that I don't want in order to follow movies I actually like, or I miss narrative. However, I know that R'as Al Ghul in Arrow has nothing to do with R'as Al Ghul in Batman Begins. So I can watch them independent of one another and enjoy them for what they are. But that's just me.

 

[dude stannis]

Want;

 

[Paradox1]

That is awesome

 

[mr. peasant]

Want;

Lol. Nice, creative play on everyone's favourite running gag about Arrow.

On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that if you mash-up Batman and Arrow, you get bARROWman??

 

[luis4u]

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/arrow-less-batman-stuff-please/1100-151604/


We love you, Arrow, but we think you're a little too attached to the Dark Knight's world.

Dear Arrow,
Season 3's overall story feels a bit unfocused at times, but it still has several strengths and I'm so anxious to see how it'll end. You've done an amazing job redeeming Thea and Laurel, Matt Nable is killing it (both literally and figuratively) as Ra's al Ghul, Vinnie Jones' Brick was good fun, and the crossover with Flash was so full of awesome. To be brutally honest, there's a lot of issues with this season (sorry, I still can't get over how easily Oliver recovered), but one thing has many of us concerned about the show's future: the frequent parallels to Batman's story. At times, this show almost feels like "The Dark Emerald Archer Knight." Look, I totally get it. Batman has this rich mythos that's packed with interesting characters and Green Arrow's rogues gallery has been, well, to call it "lackluster" would be putting it nicely. But now that the show's a success and it has established a fan base, how about you delve deep into Oliver's universe and do what you can to flesh those characters out instead of pulling from Batman's world? It's not like there's a lack of good Green Arrow stories out there to draw from, after all.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I would love an Arrow Animated series and also a green arrow video game....but it will be years before any of this will ever happen

 

[Mike Murdock]

Want;

I thought it was Victor Von Doom.

 

[Nathan]

On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that if you mash-up Batman and Arrow, you get bARROWman??

 

[Bathead]

Alla you folk complaining about GA ripping off Batman are bout 50+ years behind the times. It's been that way (deliberately on DC's part) from day one.

 

[zenith16]

Alla you folk complaining about GA ripping off Batman are bout 50+ years behind the times. It's been that way (deliberately on DC's part) from day one.

lol I think the issue problem here is the writers of this live action show brought that back into focus. before that most people knew Oliver from the JLU show then he made a an appearance in the Batman animated show then came the Brave & bold animated show while the latter of the three animated shows show case him ripping off batman as a way to get on Bruce's / Batman's nerves as it happened back in the comic's.

People that were seeing the other prior animated stuff saw Oliver written and an original character with his own personalty which was a wise cracker & was fun & can be smart ETC . part Hun solo to a degree


Cause it's kinda of like Raphael of the First TMNT series before the weird ship to Angry punk / bully some times screaming fool thanks to the movies. befor that he was wiser cracker who came up with Awesome ghetto styled diss's to the villain on the animated & showed he was capable & smart while the angry version of late some times ......

Also the jokes your addressing are the others embracing it to a degree they're just saying Oliver needs his own animated series that's all . Don't read more into it then it was intended.

After all this was what the writers of Arrow wanted they wanted people to obsess about as much as they do.

So your issue is with them, cause they caused this.

 

[Paradox1]

The comparison to Batman are inevitable and will always be there. Any hero with no powers that relies more on wits and skill. Will be compared to him because he's the most popular hero of that ilk. There were others before him like The Phantom, Zorro but while they have faded he's only gotten bigger. I was reading an article on the Daredevil trailer from Vulture yesterday. There biggest complaint about the trailer "it felt like Batman". There is no one exempt from the comparison if you fit into his ilk.

Fair or unfair there are a many characters who are rip offs. Here are some off the top of my head.

Shazam and Superman
The Shield and Captain America
Deadpool and Deathstroke

 

[herolee10]

Honestly, my first introduction to Green Arrow's character was from watching "Justice League: Unlimited", and honestly...the only thing thing that I ever saw them having in common was the fact that they were both rich.

But aside from that, nothing else. Honestly, "Arrow's" version of the character doesn't have the same laid back/people's person personality that I've see him to have in other interpretations.

In this show, they're deliberately trying to copy (or rip off) as much as they can from Nolan's and Batman's general universe.

They made Count Vertigo into a Scarecrow/Heath Ledger Joker-Like Ripoff. Brick came off as more like the Kingpin and they essentially gave Slade (who has thus far been the show's biggest badass when it comes to the Main Villains) a very crappy reason to get Angry at Oliver in the first place.

And although Oliver has been somewhat of a *****e when it comes to his love life, I don't think he was anywhere as bad as this show's version, where he'd sleep with his girlfriend's younger sister, then go back to his ex-girlfriend (thus stabbing his best friend in the back as well), before hooking up with his ex-girlfriend's sister once more.

Frankly, Roy/Arsenal is the only character on this show that resembles his comic counterpart the most out of any of the other DC heroes/villains when it comes to background/characterization/appearance.

 

[Richard Grayson]

Count Vertigo's portrayal will continue to be my least favorite on this show. This is one of Green Arrow's best villains who could have been a great season long villain. And he got turned into a not funny Joker/Scarecrow hybrid.

Too bad

 

[herolee10]

Count Vertigo's portrayal will continue to be my least favorite on this show. This is one of Green Arrow's best villains who could have been a great season long villain. And he got turned into a not funny Joker/Scarecrow hybrid.

Too bad

Agreed.

I mean "The Flash" doesn't seem to have any problems with adapting his villains onto his show. So far, none of his villains (well the big ones at least) have come off uncharacteristically when compared to their comic counterparts.

Sure, the Reverse Flash/Wells has a different setup into Flash's story than he did in the comics, but it's proven to be a hit with everyone thus far.

"Arrow" on the other hand have misused what little villains Arrow has in his comic book rogues gallery.

The Archer assassin that was thought to be Sara's killer at first, earlier this season, could have easily been a great villain for Oliver to come across throughout this season.

And I feel like the writers were pretty much idiots for abandoning Count Vertigo's royal linage/diplomatic background in favor for a Scarecrow ripoff/Drug Supplier.

And don't even get me started with Malcolm.

Oliver is already an unlikable person at times when Malcolm is not concerned. But they've made the dude into a idiotic *****e for most of this season.lol

Why do I still watch this show you ask? Well truth be told, the series showed much promise during its first two seasons to the point where it's like watching one of your favorite friends decline under a bad drug addiction. You want to stop watching you friend suffer, but can't help yourself in being there for that person still.lol

 

[Snow Queen]

Agreed.

I mean "The Flash" doesn't seem to have any problems with adapting his villains onto his show. So far, none of his villains (well the big ones at least) have come off uncharacteristically when compared to their comic counterparts.

Sure, the Reverse Flash/Wells has a different setup into Flash's story than he did in the comics, but it's proven to be a hit with everyone thus far.

"Arrow" on the other hand have misused what little villains Arrow has in his comic book rogues gallery.

The Archer assassin that was thought to be Sara's killer at first, earlier this season, could have easily been a great villain for Oliver to come across throughout this season.

And I feel like the writers were pretty much idiots for abandoning Count Vertigo's royal linage/diplomatic background in favor for a Scarecrow ripoff/Drug Supplier.

And don't even get me started with Malcolm.

Oliver is already an unlikable person at times when Malcolm is not concerned. But they've made the dude into a idiotic *****e for most of this season.lol

Why do I still watch this show you ask? Well truth be told, the series showed much promise during its first two seasons to the point where it's like watching one of your favorite friends decline under a bad drug addiction. You want to stop watching you friend suffer, but can't help yourself in being there for that person still.lol

It's weird. Flash feels like they have a real passion for the character, while Arrow feels like they have a passion for Batman and weren't allowed to make a Batman show, so they're doing Green Arrow but making him Batman-lite. How they've handled his villains and his character just go to show this, in my opinion.