Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - Part 19

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It's weird. Flash feels like they have a real passion for the character, while Arrow feels like they have a passion for Batman and weren't allowed to make a Batman show, so they're doing Green Arrow but making him Batman-lite. How they've handled his villains and his character just go to show this, in my opinion.

The only thing that both shows seemingly have in common is the fact that they love to setup the dynamics between the titular protagonists and their canon love interests/partners in just about the worst way possible...

1. Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister, which led to her presumed death for 6 years.

2. Barry Allen and Iris West are basically foster siblings, where they have yet to provide a good reason other than Barry's narration of why Iris is good for him.


It's like the producers for Flash and Arrow, share the same club with the guys that run "Gotham"...where they all decided that they would make a bet with each other to see on who could create the most "taboo-like" scenario for the heroes and their canon partners.lol
 
The only thing that both shows seemingly have in common is the fact that they love to setup the dynamics between the titular protagonists and their canon love interests/partners in just about the worst way possible...

1. Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister, which led to her presumed death for 6 years.

2. Barry Allen and Iris West are basically foster siblings, where they have yet to provide a good reason other than Barry's narration of why Iris is good for him.


It's like the producers for Flash and Arrow, share the same club with the guys that run "Gotham"...where they all decided that they would make a bet with each other to see on who could create the most "taboo-like" scenario for the heroes and their canon partners.lol

Gotham won.
 
The only thing that both shows seemingly have in common is the fact that they love to setup the dynamics between the titular protagonists and their canon love interests/partners in just about the worst way possible...

1. Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister, which led to her presumed death for 6 years.

2. Barry Allen and Iris West are basically foster siblings, where they have yet to provide a good reason other than Barry's narration of why Iris is good for him.


It's like the producers for Flash and Arrow, share the same club with the guys that run "Gotham"...where they all decided that they would make a bet with each other to see on who could create the most "taboo-like" scenario for the heroes and their canon partners.lol

Team Arrow: "I have an idea: we'll have him sleep with her sister and then somehow get back with her after him cheating on her, as far as she knows, led to her sister's death. Then we'll take her down a dark path only to ignore that the very next episode and try to make her a hero."

Team Flash: "We'll top that: Iris will get jealous about Barry's relationship even though she's already engaged. Also we'll make them foster siblings."

Team Gotham: "Nah, we're gonna win. We'll have her be okay with random children living out of her house, be all creepy with one of them, get mad that Gordon is dating someone else after she leaves him and slept with her ex anyway."
 
Honestly, my first introduction to Green Arrow's character was from watching "Justice League: Unlimited", and honestly...the only thing thing that I ever saw them having in common was the fact that they were both rich.

But aside from that, nothing else. Honestly, "Arrow's" version of the character doesn't have the same laid back/people's person personality that I've see him to have in other interpretations.

In this show, they're deliberately trying to copy (or rip off) as much as they can from Nolan's and Batman's general universe.

They made Count Vertigo into a Scarecrow/Heath Ledger Joker-Like Ripoff. Brick came off as more like the Kingpin and they essentially gave Slade (who has thus far been the show's biggest badass when it comes to the Main Villains) a very crappy reason to get Angry at Oliver in the first place.

And although Oliver has been somewhat of a *****e when it comes to his love life, I don't think he was anywhere as bad as this show's version, where he'd sleep with his girlfriend's younger sister, then go back to his ex-girlfriend (thus stabbing his best friend in the back as well), before hooking up with his ex-girlfriend's sister once more.

Frankly, Roy/Arsenal is the only character on this show that resembles his comic counterpart the most out of any of the other DC heroes/villains when it comes to background/characterization/appearance.

If you get down to nuts and bolts Arrow's Ollie and Bruce don't have a lot in common. They are both rich and brooding however where they differ is significant.

While Bruce pretends to be playboy who will sleep around with anything Ollie really means it. If you don't think he sleeps around in the comics too, you don't really know him.

Bats is the worlds greatest detective Oliver is not even the best on his team. If this was really a Batman show, he would of found out who killed Sara long ago and he would of beat Ra's.

Batman doesn't kill, no matter what. That's his thing always finding another way. Oliver bow is a deadly weapon and push come to shove he's putting Arrow through your chest center mass. Ollie would kill the Joker and not loose sleep about it. Bruce Wayne resorts to picking up a gun, he retires(Batman Beyond).

Lastly Ollie is capable of real joy where he actually enjoys life. In the first episode before Sara died. He was happy, crime was down, and he was ready to get together with Felicity.While Every smile on Bruce Wayne's face is a facade. I don't know if Bruce is capable of enjoying life in any meaningful way. That is part of what makes him a fascinating character that he's broken. Yet he took all those shattered pieces of himself and forged them into a weapon.

Brick is no Kingpin(if your talking Marvel's), Brick was a lunatic gangster. The Kingpin would take over the city but he'd do it in much more subtle way. Brick was hammer and every problem in his way was a nail. That is nowhere close to what the Kingpin would think.
 
Court Vertigo have a royal bloodline/diplomatic with his sonic device would be a worthy opponent and making Oliver harder to take him down because of his immunity from prosecution......so much potential there......

The best thing that can happen is start getting closer to GA as Brick/CV can still be closer to GA villain is still possible. In the new 52, I believe Court Vertigo is doing criminal activity in order to return to his home country. Perhaps he is just they have not establish the storyline yet
 
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Fair or unfair there are a many characters who are rip offs. Here are some off the top of my head.

Shazam and Superman
The Shield and Captain America
Deadpool and Deathstroke

Minus the mercenary job as their profession those two have never "ever" once had anything in common I don't care what wizard said back in the day.

One was too similar to captain America (only evil) minus the ( vita ray Energy) which was similar to how flash got his powers via chemicals with lighting.

Dead pool though altered was never given serum in the same way or form. He was altered but no super soldier serum also Death stroke doesn't have a sense of humor he's was just a sick( I don't mean sick "cool " since he went after under age girls & messed up his own kids lives) mercenary
bahh this is known already.

Oh with captain America there were alot of characters the resembled him like the guardian(& his off Spring) who related to Roy harpers famly who is apart of the green arrow books which dc own's (& has pushed of late) who was made in the same decade as captain America most people don't remember the shield sadly but he fits as do alot of batman like characters which DD is known to be said to one of them often

it's kinda like how namore the submariner & aqua man were made around the very same decade too. Yet a lot of people forget this as well they just remember to diss aqua man especially since some lead vocalist at a Much music award show interview said aqua man sucked ithe early 2000's & dc has since made further strides to show other wise
 
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Deadpool isn't a rip-off of Deathstroke, but he was definitely supposed to be a parody. However, like Green Arrow in the comics, he grew away from his inspiration into his own character that is very distinct from the source material.

Also, was Shazam ever anything like Superman beyond the look and the flight + strength? Even the power set was different, and the civilian identity is worlds apart. Was Billy ever not a little boy?

The thing with the Batman/Arrow comparisons is that people aren't saying that Arrow is ripping off 1941 Batman (the Batman that Green Arrow was ripping off) but that he's ripping off Nolan Batman, who wasn't the greatest detective, who wasn't a tactical genius, who was capable of happiness. In that sense, the killing thing was in the minority as one of his traits that separated them, but now he's full on 'no killing' even when it might be justified, he's mixing it up with the League, he's not a hopeless womaniser that can't control himself, he's not protecting the little guy (or anyone except Malcolm, apparently).

He's definitely not a carbon copy, but he is a lot closer to Nolan Batman than to any interpretation of Green Arrow, from the last thirty years at least.

Team Gotham: "Nah, we're gonna win. We'll have her be okay with random children living out of her house, be all creepy with one of them, get mad that Gordon is dating someone else after she leaves him and slept with her ex anyway."

In fairness to Gotham, Gordon's relationship with Barbara is doomed to fail; their relationship is supposed to be based on weak foundations, and growing up in that environment would partly explain why James Jr. turns out to be such a psycho (also the sociopathy). If anything, they are building his relationship with his actual soulmate, Essen, rather nicely, starting as they are now with mutual respect and camaraderie, both pushing back against corruption in the best ways they each know how. (Though Barbara was super creepy and molester-y with Selena)
 
Because has better/more established villains. GA doesn't. He's got Merlyn and Count Vertigo, and I guest Komodo (in the New 52) and that's kind of it. Oh Oliver being an idiot in his personal life is a LONG established character trait in the comics as well.

Look I'm not a big fan of this season either. But I just don't buy the "Batman-lite" complaints as the reason for it, especially since that's been a part of his character historically.
 
Minus the mercenary job as their profession those two have never "ever" once had anything in common I don't care what wizard said back in the day.

One was too similar to captain America (only evil) minus the ( vita ray Energy) which was similar to how flash got his powers via chemicals with lighting.

Dead pool though altered was never given serum in the same way or form. He was altered but no super soldier serum also Death stroke doesn't have a sense of humor he's was just a sick( I don't mean sick "cool " since he went after under age girls & messed up his own kids lives) mercenary
bahh this is known already.

Oh with captain America there were alot of characters the resembled him like the guardian(& his off Spring) who related to Roy harpers famly who is apart of the green arrow books which dc own's (& has pushed of late) who was made in the same decade as captain America most people don't remember the shield sadly but he fits as do alot of batman like characters which DD is known to be said to one of them often

it's kinda like how namore the submariner & aqua man were made around the very same decade too. Yet a lot of people forget this as well they just remember to diss aqua man especially since some lead vocalist at a Much music award show interview said aqua man sucked ithe early 2000's & dc has since made further strides to show other wise

I am not talking about what Deadpool has become. When he was created he was suppose to be this rip on Deadthstroke. I've seen documentaries where others have said the exact same thing.

Captain America completely rips off the Shield. Look it up its a fact, this is not my opinion.
 
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Preview: Arrow: Season 2.5 #6



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http://www.comicbookresources.com/comic-previews/arrow-season-25-6-dc-comics-2015
 
2. Barry Allen and Iris West are basically foster siblings, where they have yet to provide a good reason other than Barry's narration of why Iris is good for him.

Aside from my general disagreement, this particular conclusion always baffles me. Whether you like it or not, Iris has shown to be the only person other than Henry who has always and deeply believed in Barry and supported him in every single one of his pursuits his entire life. Think about what happens when there's only one person in your life affirming you, how positively that affects you.

But hey, whatever. Hear what you wanna hear.
 
Will Arrow get a trailer like the Flash did for the next couple of episodes?
 
Aside from my general disagreement, this particular conclusion always baffles me. Whether you like it or not, Iris has shown to be the only person other than Henry who has always and deeply believed in Barry and supported him in every single one of his pursuits his entire life. Think about what happens when there's only one person in your life affirming you, how positively that affects you.

But hey, whatever. Hear what you wanna hear.

I completely agree with this, and Barry has also been there for Iris and I'd say that he seems good for her, too (though this is also true of Eddie, atm)

Oliver, on the other hand... Well, Laurel could be good for him, but he seems terrible for pretty much everyone he ever tries to date.

N.B. I'm exaggerating. He was relatively good to Sara in the present day, it was her hang ups that were the issue. He's still not boyfriend material (I also though Dinah in the comics could have done better).
 
Each show is 23 episodes.

The rest of the season will breakdown like this


Arrow
March 18- Ep 16
March 25- Ep 17
April 1- Ep 18
April 8- Repeat
April 15- Ep 19
April 22- Ep 20
April 29- Ep 21
May 6- Ep 22
May 13- Ep 23

Flash
March 17- Ep 15
March 24- Ep 16
March 31- Ep 17
April 7- Repeat
April 14- Ep 18
April 21- Ep 19
April 28- Ep 20
May 5- Ep 21
May 12- Ep 22
May 19- Ep 23

This has to be wrong solely on the basis that by season's end, the shows are supposed to line up. Not necessarily for continuity, but because the CW shows usually end the same week, with the exception of when Smallville had a two hour finale, and Supernatural ended the following week when they were back to back on the same night.

If anything, Flash will have no more breaks so Arrow could take a break to realign things.

Looks like I was right

CW_FINALE_ECARD_V5%5B2%5D.jpg
 
I am not talking about what Deadpool has become. When he was created he was suppose to be this rip on Deadthstroke. I've seen documentaries where others have said the exact same thing.

One example that makes this clear is their names:
Slade Wilson
Wade Wilson

Captain America completely rips off the Shield. Look it up its a fact, this is not my opinion.

This one I'm not sure what you mean, do you have a link?
 
I am not talking about what Deadpool has become. When he was created he was suppose to be this rip on Deadthstroke. I've seen documentaries where others have said the exact same thing.

No that's not what I mean. We hear it often but out of the gate when dead pool was published out to the public for the world to see his first outing everything was different he wasn't the same at all as Death stroke . that is what harping about. this is what I meant with the comment. prior to that it's all talk about concept which the public never met Not once.

which different from other comic character's starting out . yeah they are others that do talk like that about like that that might sound similar to what I said . but I don't think they go into details like that it always stops short of this some how about the concept . but dead pools concept was put out in print that he was so overly similar be sides talks about it. his power every thing about him were different . well maybe his humor was a bit more tam he joking personalty came about fast. but that's about it. every other thing was different from the concept as soon he came out

the names how ever it was clear with wade & Slade still full o last name it's the only thing that stayed from the concept made it to print .To me it's about what made it to print.

This is different from when bat man was a pulp fiction / Noir detective & At one time used a pistol or some others first appearance that did make print.
Captain America completely rips off the Shield. Look it up its a fact, this is not my opinion.
what I said/ meant is most people don't remember the shield , if at all. It doesn't mean I don't believe ya.

But they don't remember him. they do remember Both captain America & DC's the guardian(who related to Roy Harper of Green arrow & Titans books) both cavaliers /shield tossing using heroes made at the same decade.
cause both their publishers managed to stay alive & keep them both relevant pushing them to the public eye over the years I remember rep for the TMNT series that said this on EPN.tv with the turtles for a time they quite he mention how important it is to keep an ip like them in the mind's of public like with kids & have them grow up with those kids which is why half the heroes made tees fallowing Stan lee's example .
 
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This one I'm not sure what you mean, do you have a link?

The Shield was first printed in 1940,14months before Captain America. He was the first patriotic character. Here is wiki link(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_%28Archie_Comics%29) but to sum it up, his father was working on super soldier serum that the nazi sabotaged and blamed the accident on his father. He picks up the fight blah, blah,blah 14months later Captain America debuts punching Adolf Hitler and the rest is history.

No that's not what I mean. We hear it often but out of the gate when dead pool was published out to the public for the world to see his first outing everything was different he wasn't the same at all as Death stroke . that is what harping about. this is what I meant with the comment. prior to that it's all talk about concept which the public never met Not once.

which different from other comic character's starting out . yeah they are others that do talk like that about like that that might sound similar to what I said . but I don't think they go into details like that it always stops short of this some how about the concept . but dead pools concept was put out in print that he was so overly similar be sides talks about it. his power every thing about him were different . well maybe his humor was a bit more tam he joking personalty came about fast. but that's about it. every other thing was different from the concept as soon he came out

the names how ever it was clear with wade & Slade still full o last name it's the only thing that stayed from the concept made it to print .To me it's about what made it to print.

This is different from when bat man was a pulp fiction / Noir detective & At one time used a pistol or some others first appearance that did make print.
what I said/ meant is most people don't remember the shield , if at all. It doesn't mean I don't believe ya.

But they don't remember him. they do remember Both captain America & DC's the guardian(who related to Roy Harper of Green arrow & Titans books) both cavaliers /shield tossing using heroes made at the same decade.
cause both their publishers managed to stay alive & keep them both relevant pushing them to the public eye over the years I remember rep for the TMNT series that said this on EPN.tv with the turtles for a time they quite he mention how important it is to keep an ip like them in the mind's of public like with kids & have them grow up with those kids which is why half the heroes made tees fallowing Stan lee's example .

My point was never that they stayed as a rip of this character or that character. The point was the original character gave birth to them in a sense and they will forever have that DNA in them. No matter how different Deadpool is now, there will always be some Deathstroke in him.
 
The Shield was first printed in 1940,14months before Captain America. He was the first patriotic character. Here is wiki link(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_%28Archie_Comics%29) but to sum it up, his father was working on super soldier serum that the nazi sabotaged and blamed the accident on his father. He picks up the fight blah, blah,blah 14months later Captain America debuts punching Adolf Hitler and the rest is history.

I remember this character there was an Archie comic one of the I have called. the web ( pre -spider man but not the best costume) & this character was also detailed as one of the many from that universe though the fact shield was o his costume... (It throws the Cavalier part out a bit) which is why I wouldn't take notice of him the same way as dc's Guardian with captain America who both made at the same time.

But I do remember him


My point was never that they stayed as a rip of this character or that character. The point was the original character gave birth to them in a sense and they will forever have that DNA in them. No matter how different Deadpool is now, there will always be some Deathstroke in him.
Don't worry that part is under stood now though the part is just mostl the job profession from the stand point and obviously the names being(they're first names) simlar &(they're last names) of fully the same . but it's under stood
 
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Arrow Episode 18 plot

ARROW
“Public Enemy” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DONNA SMOAK RETURNS — During an attack on the mayor's office, Ray (Brandon Routh) is critically injured. Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is pleasantly surprised when her mother, Donna Smoak (guest star Charlotte Ross), shows up at the hospital to offer her support. With the SCPD out in full force looking for the assailant, Oliver (Stephen Amell) and his team work hard to stay one step ahead of the police to find the man responsible. However, things come to a head when Ra's al Ghul (guest star Matt Nable) kidnaps Captain Lance (Paul Blackthorne). Dwight Little directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Wendy Mericle (#318). Original airdate 4/1/2015.
 
Arrow Episode 18 plot

ARROW
“Public Enemy” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DONNA SMOAK RETURNS — During an attack on the mayor's office, Ray (Brandon Routh) is critically injured. Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is pleasantly surprised when her mother, Donna Smoak (guest star Charlotte Ross), shows up at the hospital to offer her support. With the SCPD out in full force looking for the assailant, Oliver (Stephen Amell) and his team work hard to stay one step ahead of the police to find the man responsible. However, things come to a head when Ra's al Ghul (guest star Matt Nable) kidnaps Captain Lance (Paul Blackthorne). Dwight Little directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Wendy Mericle (#318). Original airdate 4/1/2015.

Isn't this the same episode where
Roy is supposed to get captured and someone dies?
 
My main issues with this show are threefold

1. Shado was killed off far too early and we never got around to the storyline where she drugs and rapes Ollie so she can bear his child.

2. Where's Cheshire?

3. Killing off Drakon when he's also an important villain.
 
Chesire will come eventually and they can recast Drakon just like they did with Vertigo
 
So glad they aren't doing that Shado line. Why does every time a woman rape a man in the comics its about having a baby? Didn't Talia rape Bruce to make a baby one time? Seriously writers stop it.
 
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