Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Comic books, soap operas, and professional wrestling all use the lost relative plotline. It's just that comic books use it for immediate conflict and alliance forging and to increase mythos, wrestling uses it to build hype for one single fight a year later, and soap operas waste the potential in angst and a charade of nonsensical emotional developments.

When the Merlyn plotline was used to have Merlyn come to Thea's aid and train her like at the end of season 2, it wasn't bad at all. If the plotline had been used to flesh out Merlyn and Thea's flaws and virtues for both internal and external conflict, it would have been great; just picture Malcolm showing kindness and compassion to Thea while still pursuing an illogical and malice filled grudge against Oliver (seriously, why did they not just make him the arch nemesis who loathes the hero?), or Thea trying to reconcile the seemingly kind man she knows and the story he tells with Oliver's version of events.

Instead, we got yet more focus on Thea being a static character, and Malcolm was lame as hell.
 
These have not been postet yet have they?
definitely looking better but I prefer it with the visor down...
diggle2-600_55e9f8381acab2-84907534.jpg
diggle1-800_55e9f8617b7ff0-08182046.jpg
 
The problem is it looks like there is an M on the helmet.
 
Am I the only one who finds Waller completely insufferable? I wouldn't bat an eyelash if she were killed off.

I think she's fine, with the proviso that she's also 110% evil. This is not the compelling anti-villain Waller of the more iconic Suicide Squad comics. This is terrifying sadistic megalomaniac Waller.

Just like the show is best when it acknowledges that Ollie is a fairly terrible hero who needs his companions to keep him on the straight and narrow, the show worked best when it openly reveled in how evil Waller was, rather than trying to mitigate it.
 
It still looks photoshopped to me.
 
tumblr_nucqf9x58U1rzoy4bo1_540.jpg


When Season 4 opens, “The city has declined drastically despite the best efforts of Dig, Speedy and Black Canary,” executive producer Wendy Mericle previews. “And with the arrival of Damien Darhk (Justified’s Neal McDonough) on the scene, it’s obviously big stakes.” Hence, Oliver and Felicity’s return – though not everyone is welcoming back the archer with open arms. Dig is still “frosty” toward his “brother,” Mericle says, while Quentin still is not thrilled with the masked vigilantes yet has come to see them “as a necessary evil.” Speaking of the Lance clan, Constantine (guest star Matt Ryan) will be “key” in resurrecting Sara, whose presence will be met by “very different reactions” from her family. As for Thea, her secret identity and new love interest (Suburgatory’s Parker Young) will force her to tackle a challenge Oliver is all too familiar with: “She’s now a superhero, and she wants to have a normal life,” Mericle notes. “How does she balance both of those things?”

BONUS SPOILER!: Mericle shared this cryptic tease after we mentioned a popular fan theory about Oliver running for Mayor: “He will definitely be coming more to the fore as Oliver Queen and balancing that with his new role as the Green Arrow. He’ll be bringing some light to the city. I can’t say exactly how, but that’s his goal.”

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2015-season-premiere-spoilers/#!1/fall-preview-arrow/

Not really excited that it seems like they can't hold down the fort without Arrow. It's fine to bring him back for a bigger threat finally stepping in but at least let TA 3.0 be good enough that the city isn't growing darker by the day.
 
Not really excited that it seems like they can't hold down the fort without Arrow...

Yeah, I don't like that either. Oh well.

EDIT: Actually, no, not "oh well". After thinking about it a little more, I really, really dislike the fact that Team Arrow appears to be useless without Oliver. It's a decision that undermines every single person on the team except for Oliver and (possibly) Felicity. What good are they if they let the city get worse over a period of five or six months? And that's before Damien shows up.
 
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Remember team arrow 3.0 is very inexperience beside Diggle military background so these ghost showing up are probably well trained, armed, and more smater than a average thug. It does not mean they can't handle the problem with Oliver but they need Oliver because he know how to deal with them.
 
I don't get the big deal, Gotham without Batman would be depicted the same, Ollie is the main man and lead hero, if it goes along just fine without him then there is nothing that separates him from the pack and makes him special and unique.
 
I've always been one who thought the Bat family should be able to to do Bats job if he is gone, 3-4 people equaling 1 of him isn't bad. Just as all the heroes on Earth should be able to defend it if Superman is gone. Or how the scoobies were able to keep the vampires at bay on Buffy while she was dead but they had to get really creative about it.

Star City shouldn't be getting worse by the day just because The Arrow is no longer around, there are 3 people who replaced him. DDs guys coming in and making things worse is fine and dandy, it gives Oliver a valid reason to come back. But the team should be able to deal with the normal day2day operations of thugs.
 
I don't get the big deal, Gotham without Batman would be depicted the same...

And it'd be just as wrong.

Ollie is the main man and lead hero, if it goes along just fine without him then there is nothing that separates him from the pack and makes him special and unique.


There's a difference between being better with Oliver/Batman and being completely useless without him. Like I said: the decision to have the city get visibly worse under the care of the new Team Arrow undermines them and their effectiveness as superheroes.
 
And it'd be just as wrong.

There's a difference between being better with Oliver/Batman and being completely useless without him. Like I said: the decision to have the city get visibly worse under the care of the new Team Arrow undermines them and their effectiveness as superheroes.

Not IMO, Batman is the man, if it moves along fine without him then he's just another guy, the City should slip without him, just as Starling should without The Arrow.

You are getting completely useless from it getting worse without the full context, also we have to factor in that while Thea may have Malcolm's training she has been doing the hero gig for a cup of coffee, Laurel is still fairly green and they have zero tech support without the money and resources that Ollie had.
 
Not IMO, Batman is the man, if it moves along fine without him then he's just another guy...

I disagree. If anything, it'd be yet another demonstration of how amazing Batman is. You know he's doing something right if it takes three people he personally trained to pick up his slack.

The team should be better off with him, but not helpless without him. The same goes for Team Arrow.

You are getting completely useless from it getting worse without the full context...
I don't see what other conclusion I could have possibly drawn. The city got worse after Oliver left. That means that the people he left to defend it aren't very good at it. I'm happy to wait until the season premiere to be proven wrong, though.

also we have to factor in that while Thea may have Malcolm's training she has been doing the hero gig for a cup of coffee...
She learned to become a relatively competent fighter in an almost ridiculously short amount of time. An extra five or six months should have seen her improve dramatically.

Laurel is still fairly green...
She'll have been a hero for almost a year at the start of the season.

and they have zero tech support without the money and resources that Ollie had.
Isn't Thea technically still rich?
 
I'm with Hunter without Batman Gotham should slip and Star City should feel similar effects without the Arrow.
 
I disagree. If anything, it'd be yet another demonstration of how amazing Batman is. You know he's doing something right if it takes three people he personally trained to pick up his slack.

The team should be better off with him, but not helpless without him. The same goes for Team Arrow.

There's a difference between things getting worse without him and them being helpless, they are still stemming the tide but can't turn it without The Arrow.

I don't see what other conclusion I could have possibly drawn. The city got worse after Oliver left. That means that the people he left to defend it aren't very good at it. I'm happy to wait until the season premiere to be proven wrong, though.

The reasons why it got worse could have more to them than simply the absence of The Arrow.

She learned to become a relatively competent fighter in an almost ridiculously short amount of time. An extra five or six months should have seen her improve dramatically.

She'll have been a hero for almost a year at the start of the season.

Isn't Thea technically still rich?

Thea and Laurel are still fairly knew to it regardless and have not had close to the depth of training Ollie had, and in Thea's case training vs actually in the field are different. I am not sure if she still has that money, someone here might remember better, even with the money though they'd not have the tech support without Felicity's skills which were vital to Ollie and Digg's missions.
 
These have not been postet yet have they?
definitely looking better but I prefer it with the visor down...
diggle2-600_55e9f8381acab2-84907534.jpg
diggle1-800_55e9f8617b7ff0-08182046.jpg

The helmet still doesn't look any better here. It looks like a poor attempt to bring a cool concept to life. It doesn't fit his head all too well, and looks as if it wobbles in another direction when he looks a certain direction. I personally would have shortened the helmet, instead of going passed his chin it should just barely reach his mouth. Again, like the concept art at comic con showed. That looked good, this looks, bad. Good concept, very poor execution.
 
So are we to assume that Oliver is going to go back to his "no killing" policy again?

Man, they really effed up the whole development that Oliver took all of Season 2 to go through when it comes to his viewpoint on killing his enemies.

He had no problem killing off Ra's or the guy that Ra's tried to make him believe was Diggs. So if Oliver starts telling people that he shouldn't kill then he's more full of **** than Miley Cyrus's Psychiatrist.lol

Plus, I wonder how Diggs even operates in the field considering that his main choice for a weapon is a firearm. Unless I missed the part where they developed non-lethal firearms for Diggs (similar to the stun guns used in Agents of SHIELD), Diggs is going out and shooting people to their deaths.

And Thea's been a costumed hero for a few months by the time Season 4 starts and already she's going to be doing the whole "I want a normal life schtick"?

Wow, this show continues to remind me why Flash (despite its own issues) is the superior show.
 
I hope we get promotional pictures of Black Canary/Speedy/Felicity to round out the cast. Mainly BC/Speedy since all we've seen of them is their scenes in the trailer.
 
I hope we get promotional pictures of Black Canary/Speedy/Felicity to round out the cast. Mainly BC/Speedy since all we've seen of them is their scenes in the trailer.

I don't think speedy or Laurel will get any promotional photos. They are just not popular enough and I sure there was a demand for Diggle but not enough for Thea/LAurel to get their own. I wish thre was also upgrade cast promotional photos...
 
One thing that I've never really agreed with in the comics is the notion that the entire Batfamily combined cannot accomplish what Batman can do alone. It got really ridiculous during Battle for the Cowl, where Gotham goes completely to Hell once Batman "dies." This is despite not only the Batfamily being there, but also "out of town" heroes coming in to pick up the slack, lots of them, some with superpowers. And yet, according to that book, all of them combined are less effective than Batman (a non-powered human hero) and the city is literally burning. That is getting dangerously close to "Batgod" territory.

I REALLY hope that the show doesn't do that with GA. And as I said before, it seems like a specific and really dangerous threat (Damian Darhk and his followers) is what causes things to degenerate, which is a very different scenario than "oh they just can't hack it without Oliver period."
 
So are we to assume that Oliver is going to go back to his "no killing" policy again?

Man, they really effed up the whole development that Oliver took all of Season 2 to go through when it comes to his viewpoint on killing his enemies.

He had no problem killing off Ra's or the guy that Ra's tried to make him believe was Diggs. So if Oliver starts telling people that he shouldn't kill then he's more full of **** than Miley Cyrus's Psychiatrist.lol

Plus, I wonder how Diggs even operates in the field considering that his main choice for a weapon is a firearm. Unless I missed the part where they developed non-lethal firearms for Diggs (similar to the stun guns used in Agents of SHIELD), Diggs is going out and shooting people to their deaths.

And Thea's been a costumed hero for a few months by the time Season 4 starts and already she's going to be doing the whole "I want a normal life schtick"?

Wow, this show continues to remind me why Flash (despite its own issues) is the superior show.

Or Diggle knows how to shoot people without it being lethal. As an ex Special Forces operative, I'd say that that's well within his capabilities.
 
Or Diggle knows how to shoot people without it being lethal. As an ex Special Forces operative, I'd say that that's well within his capabilities.
special force's operator actually people in the military made this saying specific cause they don't like to be called operatives cause half them don't do anything like under cover work or more past shooting people and working in team with their only gear being guns . they do covert work in sense of assaults and yes they do recuse people that are operatives one of lower class in the spy world . though but they(people llike diggle) are called operator's to the rest of the spy world. that's as far most of them like to be called that don't want to go cause don't those actually want do spy work after they retire from the military special force's and join an agency and become operatives (learn new skills) and become an agent(upgrade) which is above operative and or officer or manager which is above them both.

seeing that diggle is always attached to the squad he'd be a operator still. Since they always have diggle do no more then raid and gun's only style missions.

he doesn't do bug and surveillance work enough and alot of other stuff like take DNA samples or lock pick for covert forensic work, if he was doing more under cover missions or other stuff like setting mission's or bug and surveillance work or covert forensic work past just assaults with guns . then he'd be called different . And Argus is overly Military(look up DC's description ) so he's soldier class /operator.


As to what Herolee said he's right but it's clear that Amanda Waller and argus in this show doesn't have her people trained properly for control reasons( assuming the writers of this show actually know spy world, unlike others that have researched it and done it right) other wise she'd wouldn't have thing go her way with them.

Which is a shame I noticed after they made it clear that Oliver at the end of season 2 said he as an Argus assasine which made me suspect some thing as wrong when he said he had trouble dealing with slade strategically and they said he worked for an agency .

when you complain the way Oliver did after an agency took you in and further trained you, something is seriously wrong. they are supposed to make you better and show stuff your past trainer doesn't know or dream of. And then we see he wasn't trained well at all with the only interrogation technique she taught, which isn't her place to teach head's of agency don't train "the operatives, agents or officers or assassin's " only people that are still field commissioned do and that Technique is not for all situations and is usually considered the worst interrogation method.

Oliver has bragged to Barry that he has tactical intuition and diggle once said he's the smartest man he knew. but the show shows other wise . it's just strange and funny the show has them say these thing's, but us the fans that take notice fan's are left looking at that saying what????? he wasn't smart if at all then with this or that???

like in the past(flash back) at tommy party when he came back and killed the drug dealer that was giving thea drugs and left potential evidence(hand prints all over that body) all over his body which the writers shoved under a rug. boy those cop look stupid as well.


season 2 was good cause there as a villain like Slade yes and I think most people were distracted with him(slade). But missed the warning signs at the mid & latter end of it, from the writers weird mis steps. there some stuff leaving some hints that marc and the writers with out the people from the flash weren't on the ball.


but I'm giving them another chance to see if this is all for sure. I'm hoping they will do better this session.

if the are having some story like a mystery of any sort again for the love of god hire guest writers, that know how to write mystery's and have them teach you.


And yeah it was Diggle that kinda sent Oliver down the path of "no killing" he should try fallow that example with this as well.
Use tranquilizer's and smart bullets that work the way Oliver's trick arrows do. Like what as shown when Vin diesel as XXX (<< in the same movie) I believe I stated this before about the rounds/ bullets in his(David Ramsey's ) thread minus the part with Vin Diesel and his movie part


And for crying out loud us a silencer and suppressor more for your fire arms . it's also what ruin felicity insane plan of escape lol Her plan was bad(poorly thought out) But he helped make sure it didn't with firing that gun/ pistol of his that night.

I like saying Diggle the smart one of them all. So the writers have to stop ruining that part. if he's smart let him be smart. Not add to the problems.
 
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