Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Daltonio]

If you are laughing at my 2nd sentence, fair enough. If you are laughing at my first sentence, then you are being silly, as there is a good chance what I said is true as character have had to be killed off on the show before because DC wanted to use them, and other characters are not allowed to return, like Deathstroke.

Oh I know that's true. Honestly though, this thread is the very first I'm hearing of DC wanting to use Black Canary in the movies so I had no idea what you were on about.

Either way though, whether DC's fault or Guggenheim's - the end result is the same.

 

[DeadFan]

If the rumoured character is killed off, it is most likely because of an order from DC. Guggenheim couldn't be "screwing things up" too badly if you are still here two seasons later, cursing and throwing tantrums like a child.

You know I totally get it when posters want to make negative comments about the show, writers and characters, even if somewhat inelegantly, since that's what we are talking about -- but I've never understood why it has to devolve into personal comments about posters? What's the point of that?

 

[Slade W]

Marvel Studios has taken just as many liberties with their own characters on film as other studios have, and the argument could be made that they've actually taken MORE liberties with their own characters than other studios, so let's not pretend otherwise.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but could you give me examples of Marvel not being accurate to the source material please?

 

[DigificWriter]

No studio is going to demand that a showrunner kill off a character. If Black Canary has somehow been rendered 'off-limits', the only thing that will have been communicated to the showrunners is that they need to write the character out. How that happens is going to be entirely up to them.

 

[regnak]

Last year there were plenty of complaints about romance in the Flash (Iris, Barry and Eddie, Caitlin and Ronny). There have been plenty of complaints about Patty this year too. You are trying to simplify things a bit too much.

The complaints about Patty were largely that she left. Flash S2 has less romance and as you can see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ries)_episodes#Season_1_.282014.E2.80.9315.29




their ratings have gone up during this season which is unusual.

 

[DigificWriter]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but could you give me examples of Marvel not being accurate to the source material please?

Watch the MCU films, and then go read some of the 616 Marvel Comics, and the differences should become immediately apparent.

The idea that Marvel Studios is somehow the "paragon of fidelity" when it comes to adapting their own material is a fallacy.

 

[Omegabat]

It's not just about accuracy to the source material. It's about staying true to the concept,if you want Batman then make a Batman show,if you want a romance show then make one. Arrow at this point doesn't even WANT to be about Arrow. The blatant disregard for Green Arrow's own mythology has been apparent from day one.
Just look at how they've treated Count Vertigo,Komodo and Constantine Drakon. Even Brick just got one small arc and was done,compare that with Kingpin over in Daredevil and it looks almost crap in comparison.
Roy Harper was wasted and the Canary character has been *****ed over repeatedly. The show has repeatedly shied away from crime and social issues that form the base of Green Arrow stories.

But it was still a solid,even truly great at times superhero show with enjoyable characters and relationships and excellent main villains. Now we have NONE of that. Darhk and Ra's are crap,the combat sequences which were once praised as setting standards for others have become laughable,there are no real relationships outside of Olcity and maybe Thea/Merlyn,every thing else is just lip service. Previously Ollie by himself had substantial relationships with Slade,Moira and Tommy. They keep killing off characters and then bring in new ones that are ******ed,just look at their version of "Mr Terrific".

If they dont want to be a show about superheroes,crime fighters etc then they should just pack their stuff and leave. They can just make a new romance show starring Amell and EBR. I wont mind but if they're going to drag some of my favourite characters and mistreat them then I have every right to complain.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I have no idea what you're rambling on about.

 

[Slade W]

You know I totally get it when posters want to make negative comments about the show, writers and characters, even if somewhat inelegantly, since that's what we are talking about -- but I've never understood why it has to devolve into personal comments about posters? What's the point of that?

I am not saying that I couldn't have expressed myself better than I did, because I could have. But if you have a bigger problem with me calling out a poster for posting in an aggressive, childish and stroppy manner (and I am sure he is generally better than that and that I just caught him at a bad time), then I do not know what to say. Posts that have curses in them and that have the usual "I am so not watching this show anymore. I know I said that last year and the year before, but this time I am serious" are far worse and make it more difficult for there to be a chance for an interesting discussion than what I did.

 

[Omegabat]

^ I have no idea what you're rambling on about.

Was it addressed towards you?

 

[JC00]

No studio is going to demand that a showrunner kill off a character. If Black Canary has somehow been rendered 'off-limits', the only thing that will have been communicated to the showrunners is that they need to write the character out. How that happens is going to be entirely up to them.

huh?

If WB tells them to kill/write off the character they have to do it.. That's basically the definition of demanding. Berlanti and co don't own the character WB does.. They just get to decide how it is done

 

[DigificWriter]

The only thing that WB or DC would tell the Arrow showrunners is that they can no longer use the Black Canary character and must therefore find a way to write her off the show.

Neither of those studios is going to call Guggenheim, Mericle, or the other Arrow showrunners into a meeting and tell them "you must kill Laurel Lance".

The decision of how to get Laurel off the show, were she to no longer be available, would be left entirely up to Arrow's creative team.

 

[JC00]

The idea that Marvel Studios is somehow the "paragon of fidelity" when it comes to adapting their own material is a fallacy.

No they're not the paragon of fidelity but they've done a real decent job adapting their characters from the comics to the screen

 

[JC00]

The only thing that WB or DC would tell the Arrow showrunners is that they can no longer use the Black Canary character and must therefore find a way to write her off the show.

Neither of those studios is going to call Guggenheim, Mericle, or the other Arrow showrunners into a meeting and tell them "you must kill Laurel Lance".

The decision of how to get Laurel off the show, were she to no longer be available, would be left entirely up to Arrow's creative team.

Yes.. Which is what I just said..

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I realize that; I was merely clarifying what I meant, and doing so to dispel the idea that the specific fate we see for any given character on this show was determined by outside edicts "from on high". Some characters' fates may have been precipitated by outside requests/edicts, but the actual blame for the specificity of said fates belongs squarely with the showrunners, and this will not change even if it comes to light that Laurel is the one in that grave and the character's departure was due to a request that the series' use of her be discontinued.

 

[cheungcheung]

It'd suck for laurel to die but it's not like she does much on the show these days anyways unfortunately.

 

[bes628]

I will for sure stop watching if they kill Laurel but keep Felicity. A Green Arrow show without Roy or Black Canary is not a *****ng Green Arrow show.

 

[regnak]

It doesn't make sense for it to be a movie edict unless BC is in the JLA movie. (They killed Deadshot the year before he was in a movie.) And the JLA already looks to have more heroes in it than the first Avengers. I question just how many they could do in a first movie and not have it feel over stuffed.

 

[AspieXLDS]

So, just a thought: I finally got a look at these much-acclaimed photos. Not only are the actors waving at the camera, but there's not a single shot of the crowd at the funeral itself that I can see for present day or the flashback one. Combine this with the high quality of the shots in comparison to the blurry images we got of Moira's funeral back in Season 2 (during which everyone from Laurel to Moira to Thea to Roy was being bandied about as the possible occupant of the coffin), and I smell a heavy-handed attempt to make sure people tune in for Episodes 18-19.

 

[JC00]

It'd suck for laurel to die but it's not like she does much on the show these days anyways unfortunately.

Just says more about the producers/writers than anything...

The only (pre-new 52)Arrow family characters this show had will be gone.

Black Canary- presumably killed off
Roy- Written out of Star City
-

Characters left not named Oliver

Thea- Created for the show
Diggle- Created for the show
Felicity- Obscure Firestorm character that was suppose to be in 1 episode.



I will stick with the show because i'm 4 seasons in and muting/skipping the Felicity/Olicity helps but I can definitely see why Laurel getting offed is the tipping point for some.. Not because it's Laurel but because it represents another step forward of this show being the "Felicity and Oliver" show and not a Green Arrow/Team Arrow show

For example

I will for sure stop watching if they kill Laurel but keep Felicity. A Green Arrow show without Roy or Black Canary is not a *****ng Green Arrow show.

Well I will say that if it was just Oliver by himself it would be one thing but when you have a Team Arrow and Roy and Dinah were on it but written off and the characters left on it are characters that were made for the show I completely get why people would be done with it

 

[regnak]

Just says more about the producers/writers than anything...

The only (pre-new 52)Arrow family characters this show had will be gone.

Black Canary- presumably killed off
Roy- Written out of Star City
-

Characters left not named Oliver

Thea- Created for the show
Diggle- Created for the show
Felicity- Obscure Firestorm character that was suppose to be in 1 episode.



I will stick with the show because i'm 4 seasons in and muting/skipping the Felicity/Olicity helps but I can definitely see why Laurel getting offed is the tipping point for some.. Not because it's Laurel but because it represents another step forward of this show being the "Felicity and Oliver" show and not a Green Arrow/Team Arrow show.

Well said.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[TheRedWraith]

They really nailed John Jr.'s Suit, It looks even better than Oliver's current suit. I would be thrilled if they were to borrow elements of that design like the vest and shoulder pads but go sleeveless while keeping his current gloves/gauntlets, pants, and boots.

 

[SpideyVille]

To be fair, Thea is meant to be Mia Dearden, the adopted child of Oliver. But I agree, we've lost Roy and may lose Laurel, that completely strips Oliver from what is supposed to be important to the Green Arrow we all know. At his root, Oliver is a family man. He's flawed as hell, but he has always been surrounded by those close to him, including Connor, who, realistically, is never going to be on this show, since William is gone and John Jr is not his son.

I don't mind them changing stuff up, in fact I thought Smallville's biggest flaw was the fact that it was stuck between trying to tie into the Reeve films and being its own thing. But if this is true, then they've completely lose sight of who the character is at his core, and it's almost worst then trying to make him TV's Batman.

 

[Slade W]

Roy is gone because Colton wanted to leave, so it would be harsh to blame the writers for that.