Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[AspieXLDS]

From my understanding, the reason they were reduced so much was not only because of the 'stake in the company', but because for some absurd reason they decided to invest all of their properties into the company as well, hence why Queen Manor and Verdant were 'property of Queen Consolidated'. Also, Oliver wasn't quite broke.... he just only had millions instead of billions. But when you consider the cost of rebuilding the lair and funding the operations of Team Arrow, all without 'refilling the coffers' so to speak, and you get to broke status.

Now, I'm no businessman (obviously), but as I understood it, the reason for transferring the funds to Thea was because she was not someone who had been tied up with the company politics, like Moira and Oliver, and unlike them, had not invested anything into the company. Transferring the funds from them to an account in her name would have kept them from losing the funds they still had. Instead, their shares were devalued (though in this part, the lazy writing of Guggenheim and Co. forgot to explain to the layman watching the show HOW this is possible) by Rochev.

 

[Omegabat]

Can someone please provide a link to the "Merlyn is Ollie's father" idea?

 

[TheRedWraith]

From my understanding, the reason they were reduced so much was not only because of the 'stake in the company', but because for some absurd reason they decided to invest all of their properties into the company as well, hence why Queen Manor and Verdant were 'property of Queen Consolidated'. Also, Oliver wasn't quite broke.... he just only had millions instead of billions. But when you consider the cost of rebuilding the lair and funding the operations of Team Arrow, all without 'refilling the coffers' so to speak, and you get to broke status.

Now, I'm no businessman (obviously), but as I understood it, the reason for transferring the funds to Thea was because she was not someone who had been tied up with the company politics, like Moira and Oliver, and unlike them, had not invested anything into the company. Transferring the funds from them to an account in her name would have kept them from losing the funds they still had. Instead, their shares were devalued (though in this part, the lazy writing of Guggenheim and Co. forgot to explain to the layman watching the show HOW this is possible) by Rochev.

That was a moment of incredible stupidity on Thea's part. I am glad the writers don't write her to be that dumb/bratty anymore.

 

[JC00]

Can someone please provide a link to the "Merlyn is Ollie's father" idea?

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/05/15/arrow-finale-unthinkable

Barrowman talks the fatherly twist: “We had lunch with Andrew Kreisberg. It was season 1, we were talking about the future of Malcolm Merlyn, it was myself and my partner who said, ‘Why don’t you make Thea my daughter?’ They wanted Oliver to be my son, and I said, ‘No, it’s too Star Wars.’ It’s, ‘Oliver, I’m your father.’ But if you do Thea then it creates a whole new can of worms because Oliver will have a very difficult time killing Malcolm because he knows what it’s like to lose a father and won’t want to kill his sister’s father. And also it meant I was guaranteed a job for a long time. Yay!”

 

[JC00]

Last 3 cliffhangers since Olicity became a thing on the show

-Olicity breaking up/Felicity walking out
-Olicity getting shot at/Felicity gets injured
-Olicity driving off into the sunset


Then people wonder why there has been a lot of people saying they will drop the show if another Team Arrow member gets written off.

 

[Mike Murdock]

We're talking literally the end of last season and twice this season, that's a fairly misleading statistic.

 

[JC00]

What is misleading??

Since Olicity became a thing all the cliffhangers have revolved around them..

 

[SpideyVille]

The sad fact remains that Felicity and Oliver's relationship is the A-plot.

 

[Slade W]

Like I said before, I am no fan of Felicity, but her and Oliver's relationship is not only to pander to the shippers, but it is also there to show us Oliver's growth as a person. In season 1, 2 and 3 he would not go out with someone or let himself be happy. He wanted to be with Felicity at the start of season 3, but Vertigos attack made him re-think this. He kept The Arrow and Oliver Queen separate, but there was very little Oliver Queen, and in his own words, the little bit of Oliver Queen that he had left, was fading away.

Him going out with Felicity is him allowing himself to be happy and not forever be a miserable git like Bruce Wayne. Like he said himself "I don't want to die alone in this cave". He started the season saying that people like him and Barry Allen do not get the girl, but by the end of the season he realized that this was wrong and he left with the girl he loved.

He also became more trusting of his allies, which was a big step for him as he had refused to train Laurel, let Roy help him or allow Diggle out on the field when he became a father in the past. He also trusted Malcolm Merlyn over them when it came to stopping Ra's. He took that step, and that is why he was able to leave with Felicity at the end of season 3 and left the city in the hands of Laurel, Thea and Diggle. He realized that The Arrow left his mark and started a crusade, and that it will live beyond him. Laurel, Diggle and Thea will keep fighting. Heroes like Tatsu and Barry also emerged.

Him running for mayor also represents growth in his character. He is trying to make the difference in the light of day as Oliver Queen, and he is becoming more pro-active than reactive. That is not to say there is still no darkness in him, there is, and it could still be unleashed before the end of the season (and he did unleash it on Ghosts after Felicity's injury), but he is still taking steps to change as a person and become a better, happier and more emotionally healthy person.

 

[SpideyVille]

Like I said before, I am no fan of Felicity, but her and Oliver's relationship is not only to pander to the shippers, but it is also there to show us Oliver's growth as a person. In season 1, 2 and 3 he would not go out with someone or let himself be happy. He wanted to be with Felicity at the start of season 3, but Vertigos attack made him re-think this. He kept The Arrow and Oliver Queen separate, but there was very little Oliver Queen, and in his own words, the little bit of Oliver Queen that he had left, was fading away.

Him going out with Felicity is him allowing himself to be happy and not forever be a miserable git like Bruce Wayne. Like he said himself "I don't want to die alone in this cave". He started the season saying that people like him and Barry Allen do not get the girl, but by the end of the season he realized that this was wrong and he left with the girl he loved.

He also became more trusting of his allies, which was a big step for him as he had refused to train Laurel, let Roy help him or allow Diggle out on the field when he became a father in the past. He also trusted Malcolm Merlyn over them when it came to stopping Ra's. He took that step, and that is why he was able to leave with Felicity at the end of season 3 and left the city in the hands of Laurel, Thea and Diggle. He realized that The Arrow left his mark and started a crusade, and that it will live beyond him. Laurel, Diggle and Thea will keep fighting. Heroes like Tatsu and Barry also emerged.

Him running for mayor also represents growth in his character. He is trying to make the difference in the light of day as Oliver Queen, and he is becoming more pro-active than reactive. That is not to say there is still no darkness in him, there is, and it could still be unleashed before the end of the season (and he did unleash it on Ghosts after Felicity's injury), but he is still taking steps to change as a person and become a better, happier and more emotionally healthy person.

Calling BS right there. He went out on several dates during season 1. First with Huntress, who he had an immediate spark with, and second with the cop who only left because she was hurt and needed to be written off the show.

It wasn't until season 3 where they basically killed the Oliver Queen character, which was obviously in favor of the arc you mentioned above. Now, it's certainly an interesting character study, which is always wonderful and welcomed on any show, but in this case, as most of his decisions and her decisions in season 3 were, they were made to keep the two apart for as long as possible, so that they could build up to the happy ending.

Yes, you can argue that Felicity has helped him embrace a lighter side, and a tone the show needs overall, and you can also say that the show started off much better because of it. But it's hard to argue that the last few episodes, where the relationship has taken the front seat again like it did last season, has hurt the show. It almost makes me wonder if they didn't focus on the relationship so much during the first half of this season because hey were too busy setting up Legends' arcs.

The big problem that the show is doing is making him dependent on her. His decision to run for Mayor was his own, not hers, and that's strong character development. But most other decisions that get made need her approval first, and when he doesn't get it, it makes both characters look bad. Oliver looks foolish for trusting Malcolm or is the bad guy for lying about William, and Felicity looks like an overlord that was denied power.

As has been the case for the last season and a half, the direction of the show and the writing have been sub-par when it comes to building this relationship and making it something that the majority of people want to see. And if you think most fans want to see a love-struck hero try to find his way by winning over the love of his life, just look at Superman Returns and why that movie failed.

 

[Slade W]

Calling BS right there. He went out on several dates during season 1. First with Huntress, who he had an immediate spark with, and second with the cop who only left because she was hurt and needed to be written off the show.

It wasn't until season 3 where they basically killed the Oliver Queen character, which was obviously in favor of the arc you mentioned above. Now, it's certainly an interesting character study, which is always wonderful and welcomed on any show, but in this case, as most of his decisions and her decisions in season 3 were, they were made to keep the two apart for as long as possible, so that they could build up to the happy ending.

Yes, you can argue that Felicity has helped him embrace a lighter side, and a tone the show needs overall, and you can also say that the show started off much better because of it. But it's hard to argue that the last few episodes, where the relationship has taken the front seat again like it did last season, has hurt the show. It almost makes me wonder if they didn't focus on the relationship so much during the first half of this season because hey were too busy setting up Legends' arcs.

The big problem that the show is doing is making him dependent on her. His decision to run for Mayor was his own, not hers, and that's strong character development. But most other decisions that get made need her approval first, and when he doesn't get it, it makes both characters look bad. Oliver looks foolish for trusting Malcolm or is the bad guy for lying about William, and Felicity looks like an overlord that was denied power.

As has been the case for the last season and a half, the direction of the show and the writing have been sub-par when it comes to building this relationship and making it something that the majority of people want to see. And if you think most fans want to see a love-struck hero try to find his way by winning over the love of his life, just look at Superman Returns and why that movie failed.

I guess I was wrong about season 1 there, but in season 2 it was the case and he even said that to Felicity after she asked him why he slept with Rochev. I don't or have never denied that the relationship and Felicity getting more screen time has hurt the show, as I do not think Felicity is very interesting, but I was just saying that it does not solely exist to pander to shippers.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I guess I was wrong about season 1 there, but in season 2 it was the case and he even said that to Felicity after she asked him why he slept with Rochev. I don't or have never denied that the relationship and Felicity getting more screen time has hurt the show, as I do not think Felicity is very interesting, but I was just saying that it does not solely exist to pander to shippers.

Might as well. I was going to get into this some more, but forget it. I'm not pleased with how Oliver is developing as a character outside of him leaving the "darkness" behind. And even that development is for the wrong reasons.

 

[SpideyVille]

I guess I was wrong about season 1 there, but in season 2 it was the case and he even said that to Felicity after she asked him why he slept with Rochev. I don't or have never denied that the relationship and Felicity getting more screen time has hurt the show, as I do not think Felicity is very interesting, but I was just saying that it does not solely exist to pander to shippers.

In season 2 he slept with Sara, and had a mini relationship with her. As for sleeping with Isabel, I was under the impression that he had a hidden agenda, but one could argue that that was one of the earliest signs of Olicity being a real thing, since she was clearly upset and Oliver ended up looking like the real billionaire playboy that Bruce Wayne pretends to be.

But my thing is, I look back at season two when I first started to hear about Olicity being a thing and I laughed it off because it made no sense. I never felt any kind of sexual chemistry between the two, and considering who Oliver was, it didn't seem like that was a relationship that would ever happen. And that moment in the finale just seemed like a wink to the fans at first because Ollie played it so seriously that it was just an act to get Slade to kidnap Felicity.

But the fact that they tried to jump right into it in season 3, and basically did all the important story-telling aspects of that arc in the between-season comic that hardly no one reads, just shows how important it was for them to address that. So I think they were definitely pandering to the shippers, and if you're going to do that, at least do it right. Don't put your lead, and your supporting character who is suddenly a lead, in a position where you have people hating them or their decisions for most of the season.

 

[Slade W]

In season 2 he slept with Sara, and had a mini relationship with her. As for sleeping with Isabel, I was under the impression that he had a hidden agenda, but one could argue that that was one of the earliest signs of Olicity being a real thing, since she was clearly upset and Oliver ended up looking like the real billionaire playboy that Bruce Wayne pretends to be.

I cannot believe you are using his relationship with Sara to argue against this. His relationship with Sara was not about happiness. They were both damaged people, who were feeling remorse for what they did in their past. Both were in a dark place at the time, so they could not hurt each other. There was nothing at all to suggest that it was sustainable or long-term. It was mostly based on lust, not love. It was a quick escape from the pain for both of them. It was not Oliver Queen and Sara Lance together, it was The Arrow and The Canary together, if that makes sense.

In regards to Isabel, there was nothing to suggest that he had an agenda. Again, that was lust, not love. He did not love either of those women like he loves Felicity and neither of them made anywhere close to being as happy as Felicity makes him.

But the fact that they tried to jump right into it in season 3, and basically did all the important story-telling aspects of that arc in the between-season comic that hardly no one reads, just shows how important it was for them to address that. So I think they were definitely pandering to the shippers, and if you're going to do that, at least do it right. Don't put your lead, and your supporting character who is suddenly a lead, in a position where you have people hating them or their decisions for most of the season.

I never denied that there was pandering involved, but it also played a big part in Oliver's arc, and that is another reason that they jumped into it so fast. Oliver starts the season not being able to be with the girl he loves and be happy, but he ends it having both of those things. Simply referring to it as "just pandering" is reductive, and a childish and simplistic way of looking at it. I don't really care for the relationship between them and I like Oliver when he is darker and single, but I understand where the writers are going (whether they are doing that in an entertaining and interesting manner is a different matter). The best relationship on this show was the Tommy and Laurel one IMO. The writing and acting was very good in that relationship IMO.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I wonder if they could ever bring Solomon Grundy back? It'd fit with the more mystical theme of the show lately, and Cyrus Gold already appeared in S2 and apparently "died," but his corpse was shown with lots of chemical burns on his face in a manner that sort of resembled Grundy. I think it would've been cool if Darhk found Gold's body and reincarnated it, or something. Alas, he's powerless now.

 

[JC00]

But most other decisions that get made need her approval first, and when he doesn't get it, it makes both characters look bad. Oliver looks foolish for trusting Malcolm or is the bad guy for lying about William, and Felicity looks like an overlord that was denied power.

For example

One of her reasons for being mad at him because she wasn't included in the decision he and the mother of his son made regarding their son... Come on...

 

[SpideyVille]

Is that really what she said in the episode?

EDIT: Holy Crap! She actually does say that right before she gets out of the chair. Are you freaking kidding me?

On a side note, something I just realized is that they pretty much are stuck with Felicity and Oliver being a couple now, unless EBR leaves the show, whether it be because Felicty is killed, or she leaves the team. But at this point, I don't even think they could do Laurel and Oliver or him with anyone else while she is still around. It's just a shame that they don't know how to write for them.

 

[antsman41]

Is that really what she said in the episode?

EDIT: Holy Crap! She actually does say that right before she gets out of the chair. Are you freaking kidding me?

On a side note, something I just realized is that they pretty much are stuck with Felicity and Oliver being a couple now, unless EBR leaves the show, whether it be because Felicty is killed, or she leaves the team. But at this point, I don't even think they could do Laurel and Oliver or him with anyone else while she is still around. It's just a shame that they don't know how to write for them.

I'm assuming... all I hear now when she speaks is, "wah was was I'm the best tech girl ever, punk woo, wah wah Oliver is bad wah wah it's my show".

 

[Jedi Arrow]

So be careful with "Arrow - Vengeance." It has what appears to be a major spoiler for S4. Don't read on if you don't want to be spoiled.

Spoiler

Slade visits Shado's grave and finds a new grave beside it...with the name Taiana on it.

 

[Batsfan1]

I miss Chloe and Oliver from Smallville and I thought that was bad writing. This is worse.

God bless you all! God bless everyone!

 

[Herolee10]

For example

One of her reasons for being mad at him because she wasn't included in the decision he and the mother of his son made regarding their son... Come on...

Is that really what she said in the episode?

EDIT: Holy Crap! She actually does say that right before she gets out of the chair. Are you freaking kidding me?

On a side note, something I just realized is that they pretty much are stuck with Felicity and Oliver being a couple now, unless EBR leaves the show, whether it be because Felicty is killed, or she leaves the team. But at this point, I don't even think they could do Laurel and Oliver or him with anyone else while she is still around. It's just a shame that they don't know how to write for them.

If Oliver thinks that his 5 years away from his family was "Hell", wait till his marriage life starts with Felicity.lol

I'm already done with Felicity at this point. There's literally no hope for this character at this point. Oliver may have lost his arm to Grant Wilson in a different timeline, but he's already lost his balls to Felicity.

No sane guy would ever put up with this kind of woman. Sadly enough, there are people out there who think that Felicity is justified for EVERYTHING that she does. Apparently, they believe that since Oliver used to be such a terrible person, she's allowed to do anything bad to him.

Based on everything that we've seen of Felicity in the last 2 seasons, she's pretty much revealed herself to be nothing more than:

A Shallow, Control-Freak, Sexist, Hypocritical, and Unforgiving person. Unless Season 5 promises to do something DRASTIC in a very positive way, I think I'm done with Arrow after this season. Felicity and Olicity has ruined this show for me and I don't want to waste my energy and time watching her *****y ways.

 

[AspieXLDS]

So.... I guess Jake Coburn, one of the writers on "Arrow", actually called people who don't like Olicity "bozos". Regardless of if this was joking or serious, it was highly unprofessional and gave me the fire I needed to resurrect my old Twitter account and send off a message to Marc Guggenheim, tagging Coburn as well. The message: "As someone watching for the Oliver Queen story, being called a bozo by @JakeCoburn2 makes it easier not to watch."

 

[Slade W]

He was obviously joking .

 

[BlueLanternKal]

The stories in Green Arrow: The New Adventures of Oliver & Felicity come off as being written by a room full of bozos.

You could probably get a better show for free from a handful of people on these forums and they'd pull it off without ****ting on the canon to prop up characters that have long passed their expiration date.

 

[Slade W]

Bozo is such a terrible insult. Anyone who uses that word in a serious manner deserves to be locked in a room full of Olicity shippers.