Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[HighFivingMF]

I think that new guy is gonna be Prometheus.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't think it's the trope I think it s the way the characters are written. We both frequent POI boards and all those characters have similar backgrounds but they are written much better.

That's fair, and I agree it's in the writing and how those deaths are used, however I get the impression from watching this universe (mostly in Arrow, I think it's not so much an issue with the other shows individually) that these writers struggle with ideas to give motivation that aren't just death of a loved one equals hero/villain/reason to do something. There had to have been more creative ways to make the current situation seem more pressing, for example, than the option they chose, regardless of how much I wanted that to happen to that character. It just feels lazy at this point, and I doubt a new character with another dead loved one backstory is going to be any different. Especially not with the writing quality since the end of season 2.

 

[Paradox1]

That's fair, and I agree it's in the writing and how those deaths are used, however I get the impression from watching this universe (mostly in Arrow, I think it's not so much an issue with the other shows individually) that these writers struggle with ideas to give motivation that aren't just death of a loved one equals hero/villain/reason to do something. There had to have been more creative ways to make the current situation seem more pressing, for example, than the option they chose, regardless of how much I wanted that to happen to that character. It just feels lazy at this point, and I doubt a new character with another dead loved one backstory is going to be any different. Especially not with the writing quality since the end of season 2.

I agree partly because I'd go even further in that even season two they went to that well one too many times. I'd say the way Shado died and the purpose it served narratively was a disappointing aspect in a otherwise great season. I understood they wanted Slade to blame Oliver for her death. I just think there was a better way it could of been done.

 

[Slade W]

I also think that the Arrow writers rely on the death of a loved one too much. Tbf to them, the last two villains (Ra's and Darhk) were not motivated by such a thing, but they still have used it for so many other characters that it still feels overused. I would prefer it if they came up with a different motivation.

 

[Herolee10]

I also think that the Arrow writers rely on the death of a loved one too much. Tbf to them, the last two villains (Ra's and Darhk) were not motivated by such a thing, but they still have used it for so many other characters that it still feels overused. I would prefer it if they came up with a different motivation.

- Malcolm became the Dark Archer because the death of his wife.

- Ray Palmer decided to become the Atom because the death of his fiance.

- Slade Wilson went Deathstroke because of Shado's Death.

- Earth-2 Harrison Wells is willing to kill and became overprotective of his daughter because of the death of his wife.

- Laurel started her path as Black Canary because of the "death" of Sara.

- Rip Hunter decided to abandon his loyalties towards the Time Masters because of the deaths of his family.

 

[Slade W]

- Malcolm became the Dark Archer because the death of his wife.

- Ray Palmer decided to become the Atom because the death of his fiance.

- Slade Wilson went Deathstroke because of Shado's Death.

- Earth-2 Harrison Wells is willing to kill and became overprotective of his daughter because of the death of his wife.

- Laurel started her path as Black Canary because of the "death" of Sara.

- Rip Hunter decided to abandon his loyalties towards the Time Masters because of the deaths of his family.

There is also Oliver who is motivated by several deaths (Robert, Moira, Shado, Tommy and Laurel). Perhaps I have left some out.

Maseo was also motivated by his son dying.

Diggle was motivated at times because of his brothers supposed death.

Quentin was motivated by both of Sara's deaths, both in season 1 and 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more. Ivo was also motivated because his wife had bad health, but I cannot remember if she was dying.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I don't know what everyone's talking about, these last two episodes have been some of the best in a while. But I always thought Laurel was dead weight. So whatever. More fun for me.

 

[Slade W]

I agree about episode 18. That was a good episode, but I thought the ending was handled quite badly, to say the least.

 

[Paradox1]

I don't know what everyone's talking about, these last two episodes have been some of the best in a while. But I always thought Laurel was dead weight. So whatever. More fun for me.

Your one of the few because in the press and among fans It's not going over well.

 

[Grommers]

Your one of the few because in the press and among fans It's not going over well.

See I find this comment very odd, - most people i talk too who aren't big comic book fans, are beyond happy they finally killed off Laurel. There's probably 10-15 people at my office and not a single one is unhappy they killed off Laurel, but then I go online and I see the bashing on it. Now, none of the people I talk too at my work actually would go out of their way to post about it, or watch the trailers etc, where I see all this stuff about the negativity.

Not saying you aren't right, but I do wonder what the actual numbers are.

 

[Paradox1]

See I find this comment very odd, - most people i talk too who aren't big comic book fans, are beyond happy they finally killed off Laurel. There's probably 10-15 people at my office and not a single one is unhappy they killed off Laurel, but then I go online and I see the bashing on it. Now, none of the people I talk too at my work actually would go out of their way to post about it, or watch the trailers etc, where I see all this stuff about the negativity.

Not saying you aren't right, but I do wonder what the actual numbers are.

there is no way to tell but we only have social media and media outlets to really gage the response. Ive seen it as extremely negative and you've seen the same as well.

 

[SpideyVille]

I've seen almost a million different articles and episode recaps that all seem to lean toward negative. I've yet to see people with credibility talk about the show in a positive way.

 

[DCnightwing23]

I've seen almost a million different articles and episode recaps that all seem to lean toward negative. I've yet to see people with credibility talk about the show in a positive way.

Not true. Big reviewers online like Collider and Emergency Awesome almost always praise each and every episode, from the mediocre to just flat out bad. If reviewers like those were to come out and complain about the flaws the show has, maybe more would follow. However, they seem to gloss over the problems for the sake of viewership.

 

[SpideyVille]

Not true. Big reviewers online like Collider and Emergency Awesome almost always praise each and every episode, from the mediocre to just flat out bad. If reviewers like those were to come out and complain about the flaws the show has, maybe more would follow. However, they seem to gloss over the problems for the sake of viewership.

Yeah I love Charlie, but sometimes I try not to pay too much mind to what he says because he is overly positive about things. He doesn't exactly praise the bad, but he tries to remain level headed and optimistic that something good will happen, instead of reacting to the negative things.

As for Collider, they won't trash an episode outright, they'll give criticisms, but it isn't until the season ends that they'll talk bad about it. But they also remain positive because they've had guests on from the show before, so you kind of have to be respectful if you want to bring in more guests, which bring in viewers.

I actually respect the podcast in Vancouver, Quiver, because they've had Stephen Amell on the show before, but that hasn't stopped them from giving honest opinions about how they feel. Not to mention, there was a recent episode, I believe the cupid one, where they were just so fed up that they decided not to talk about the episode at all, or re-watch it. But they didn't do it in a whiny kind of way, it was more of an honest discussion about how the show has dipped in quality for them and they might not continue doing it next season, and that was before Laurel's death.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I've seen almost a million different articles and episode recaps that all seem to lean toward negative. I've yet to see people with credibility talk about the show in a positive way.

I've yet to hear anyone with credibility talk about it in a negative way either. Because liking or disliking a TV show isn't something that requires credibility.

 

[SpideyVille]

I've yet to hear anyone with credibility talk about it in a negative way either. Because liking or disliking a TV show isn't something that requires credibility.

Sounds like same thing people were saying about BvS when all the critics' reviews were out.

 

[Paradox1]

Not true. Big reviewers online like Collider and Emergency Awesome almost always praise each and every episode, from the mediocre to just flat out bad. If reviewers like those were to come out and complain about the flaws the show has, maybe more would follow. However, they seem to gloss over the problems for the sake of viewership.

Collider tv talk has put Arrow in the tv low lifes for the past 6 or 7 episodes.

 

[Slade W]

It is quite difficult to say if the majority of the shows fans are unhappy or not if we are judging it by the online fan community, as we do not know what percentage of the shows fan-base we make up. People that are unhappy will usually stand out more, as they are usually more aggressive and persistent, as well as more dramatic. Us online fans who talk about shows and movies a lot on forums and the like, usually have more time on our hands and are more obsessive and nit-picky than fans who do not discuss shows and movies online, or at least that has been my experience. IMO we see issues with things that other people would not, and if they did notice it, I do not think it would bother them or fill them with as much "nerd rage" as it does us. I think it is safe to say, however, that there has never been more unhappy online fans of the show than there is now, as I do not think there was ever as much people complaining online as there is now.

 

[SpideyVille]

Collider tv talk has put Arrow in the tv low lifes for the past 6 or 7 episodes.

I only watch the after show. I rarely listen to TV Talk, but it wouldn't surprise me, considering the second half is where the season started to fall off again.

I will say though, seeing John Campea return on the after show last week because Laurel died was pretty funny. I never understood why he hated her so much, but he was a man of his word and left once she became "Buckles".

And not to turn this into a Laurel/Felicity debate, but it's interesting to see that some people are starting to hate Felicity like they did with Laurel in season 2, but I think the biggest difference is that Laurel was not really in the A-plot during that season. She was always on her own, suffering through things without any help, whereas Felicity is at a point where you an argue that she's the main character. That's why the show is suffering, because putting more of a spotlight on a weak-written character drags the show down more than a character being given less of the spotlight.

 

[Deltron3030]

Man this has turned to be the worst season IMO. It started off strong but it seeems too long of a season and dragged out. They need to reduce the episode count to 18

 

[Obsidian Idea]

the show has dipped in quality for them and they might not continue doing it next season, and that was before Laurel's death.

This pretty much sums up where me and my sis are with Arrow nowadays. They need a drastic shift or change directions... idk what that looks like or what they need to do but something needs to change. It's boring right now.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Man this has turned to be the worst season IMO. It started off strong but it seeems too long of a season and dragged out. They need to reduce the episode count to 18

Frankly, I think anyone who thinks this is the worst season isn't remembering last season. This season isn't good. But the difference is this season started out strong and got dumb. Last season started stupid and got nonsensical. Also, at least Darhk is way more fun of a villain than Ra's was. I also thought the flashbacks started stronger. There was at least some movement in them where things happened before it devolved into Ollie in a cave with a lot of hocus pocus going on. Last season just had week upon week of him in an apartment. Now two seasons that aren't good are a cause for serious concern, but I still at least think this season is an improvement because it didn't start too badly.

 

[Slade W]

I, personally, think this season is worse than season 3. I think that Darhk is a better and more fun villain than Ra's though. Darhk is arguably a better villain than Slade was IMO.

 

[Reek]

Did I eat mushrooms and see Thea become the star of the Truman Show or is it really just this bad now?

 

[Slade W]

Nope, that really did happen. Unless, I had the same mushrooms as you that is.