Arrow ARROW Season 4, Episode 5 Haunted

[superboy13]

I gotta agree with Rev. Lovejoy here. There's basically no difference between what Ollie did and what Laurel did. That Laurel doesn't get a pass because she isn't Oliver is plain stupid. Double standards.

 

[kguillou]

Oh snap, guys, I didnt even realize that feather gag was a shot at NBC hahahaha.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ It wasnt. It was the writers having some good-natured fun with the cancellation situation, not taking a potshot at the network.

 

[superboy13]

^ It wasnt. It was the writers having some good-natured fun with the cancellation situation, not taking a potshot at the network.

Semantics. The feather was a reference to NBC, that's what people meant. Jeez.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Good crossover, even I only saw 3 ep of Constantine it was nice to see him in Arrow, he is a cool character and his cameo fitted finely with Sara's story.
My main interested at the moment is the return of The Atom, I can't wait to see how they show it, I mean the techno babble behind it.

 

[Mikelus]

Thea was dead. No matter how you cut it Oliver crossed the same line Laurel did. And it is a choice. It's all a choice. A thoughtless choice considering what nearly happened because of it. Much like Laurel's.That was never hinted at and the situation was never addressed by anyone as that being the case. Oliver has screwed up far worse, far more often and with far bigger consequences than Laurel.

Agreed, people bashing Laurel should bash Oliver even more if they really care so much about ethics:

- Oliver has killed more people than anyone else on Team Arrow.
- He has lied and manipulated people more than anyone on his team.
- He put his friends in danger with his crazy, moronic plan of working for Ra's Al Ghul.
- Etc, etc, etc...

In real life, a person like Oliver would be in jail, dead or very lonely for treating people so badly, but he's getting the greatest pass ever on the show, life is not bad at all for Oliver Queen.

Of course, all of this is thanks to poor creative decisions by Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg and company, so if you really want to be angry about it, then let them know!

Back on the episode, I agree it was a little rushed because they're setting up Sara being part of Legends of Tomorrow, although they could've done a more solid job with the writing, making things more natural, but these writers love forcing drama, even if it makes the characters look bad. At least, the drama between Oliver and Laurel is over and they're good friends again, hopefully it will stay like this till the show is over, we had more than enough drama with them. I don't know if the producers are going to respect the Green Arrow-Black Canary mythos, but them being good friends is the minimum they could do.

Like I said when the episode leaked, the Constantine stuff was good, Matt Ryan is great in the role, although I didn't like John telling Oliver to leave town to save themselves from Damien. I would've preferred giving Ollie a more useful advice, but whatever, decent episode despite the flaws.

 

[DigificWriter]

Semantics. The feather was a reference to NBC, that's what people meant. Jeez.

When people say that something is a "shot" at something or someone, the connotation is negative, so, no, it's not 'semantics'.

Yes, the peacock feather thing was a reference to NBC, but it clearly wasn't meant to be negative, which is the point I was making.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah but Constantine was using the feather to scratch an itch on his back....thats kind of taking a slight jab there. Not a malicious jab but one nonetheless.

 

[Kar]

I liked it. I'm a sucker for crossovers, although I agree it should have been a two-parter. It felt rushed but I hope this leads to Ollie exploring the mysticism on the island. Cause I don't understand how those 5 minutes with Constantine makes Oliver an expert on magic (the way he automatically knew Damien was using it in episode 1 implies he's seen stuff similar.) And I love how they brought the island into the mix by stating its importance and how it attracts bad stuff, so its not just a coincidence everybody ends up there. A line from John to Ollie how he's connected to the island forever and that he's always gonna end up back there would have been cool, too.

And Laurel...yeah I'm disappointed. While I understand why she did it it doesn't make it any less dumb. And her bringing up "oh you never respect me" was so lame. I was so glad Ollie chewed her ass out cause she really deserved it.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I doubt we're done with Ollie encountering magic on the island this season. The drug people clearly still have something going.

Anyway, Constantine was the highlight that made this episode pretty fun.

 

[Batsfan1]

Agreed, people bashing Laurel should bash Oliver even more if they really care so much about ethics:

- Oliver has killed more people than anyone else on Team Arrow.
- He has lied and manipulated people more than anyone on his team.
- He put his friends in danger with his crazy, moronic plan of working for Ra's Al Ghul.
- Etc, etc, etc...

In real life, a person like Oliver would be in jail, dead or very lonely for treating people so badly, but he's getting the greatest pass ever on the show, life is not bad at all for Oliver Queen.

Of course, all of this is thanks to poor creative decisions by Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg and company, so if you really want to be angry about it, then let them know!

Back on the episode, I agree it was a little rushed because they're setting up Sara being part of Legends of Tomorrow, although they could've done a more solid job with the writing, making things more natural, but these writers love forcing drama, even if it makes the characters look bad. At least, the drama between Oliver and Laurel is over and they're good friends again, hopefully it will stay like this till the show is over, we had more than enough drama with them. I don't know if the producers are going to respect the Green Arrow-Black Canary mythos, but them being good friends is the minimum they could do.

Like I said when the episode leaked, the Constantine stuff was good, Matt Ryan is great in the role, although I didn't like John telling Oliver to leave town to save themselves from Damien. I would've preferred giving Ollie a more useful advice, but whatever, decent episode despite the flaws.

I gotta agree with Rev. Lovejoy here. There's basically no difference between what Ollie did and what Laurel did. That Laurel doesn't get a pass because she isn't Oliver is plain stupid. Double standards.

Thank you very much, both of you.

God bless you both! God bless your families and everyone else in your life! God bless everyone!

 

[Adanu]

Oliver is far smarter and far more responsible with his risk than Laurel has been ever on this show, so it's far from the same thing.

 

[zenith16]

No he's not it takes alot for him to admit responsibility or get to that point.

 

[Adanu]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, because I just don't see it.

 

[Infinight888]

Thea was dead. No matter how you cut it Oliver crossed the same line Laurel did. And it is a choice. It's all a choice. A thoughtless choice considering what nearly happened because of it. Much like Laurel's.

1. Thea was NOT dead when she was healed. This isn't up for debate. She was alive by every definition of the word.

2. And Oliver was never informed of the risk. Because this is a TV show and people only seem to give warnings in the vaguest way possible, Oliver was never told that Thea would have an insatiable bloodlust until the day she dies (even though Malcolm definitely knew the specific details). And the person Oliver heard it from wasn't trustworthy. Laurel knew exactly what Sara would have to live with, having witnessed it with Thea, and knew that it would be far worse with Sara. She was fully informed of the consequences of her actions and chose to go through with them anyways.

3. Laurel felt zero remorse. People were killed, the daughter and sisters of other human beings, and Laurel cared more about the fact that Oliver disapproved than she did about the lives actually being lost.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The people killed weren't innocents, they were criminals and rapists. Sara didn't kill any innocent women.

 

[Paradox1]

And killing criminals is ok right?

 

[zenith16]

The people killed weren't innocents, they were criminals and rapists. Sara didn't kill any innocent women.

well we didn't see anyone killed and they're only victims were people that escaped sara's attack . where the women were involved any way, atleast. I do remember hearing rapist's and similar criminal's were killed


But both oliver and lance made the statement when sara was on her rampage that "people were dyeing out there" cause of sara. So the show put out a mixed message, through those two characters mouths, when the show in this past Wednesday show . I agree I didn't see sara kill anyone at all. minus two conflicting thing's said by certain characters.


but according to those both captain Lance and Oliver people were dying out there as their literal words cause of sara. that might be what Infinight888 may be reacting to to literally . which is what I hate about exaggerated talk from people or characters . it's ether fact or not about that happening. if that's not what's really happen don't use those words at all.


which the again with the mixed message's of they don't know what they are really saying on the show to be fact . it's like they have two side's of writers on the writing team arguing with each other at times

 

[KillerMcQueen]

well we didn't see anyone killed and they're only victims were people that escaped sara's attack . where the women were involved any way, atleast. I do remember hearing rapist's and similar criminal's were killed

Other than the guy in the beginning of the episode attacking the woman in the alley that had his throat slashed by Sara and then got stabbed by her half a dozen times? Because I somehow doubt the guy was walking away from that.

 

[zenith16]

Other than the guy in the beginning of the episode attacking the woman in the alley that had his throat slashed by Sara and then got stabbed by her half a dozen times?

yeah didn't remember that part . cause had headed to the bath room just at the start that night even though I made sure to see it twice with the fiber wire I have at my place. yeah I did that twice . Oh well .

Point is, it was just killers and rapist as primal slayer said which the show it's self stated . I'm not really for it ether . as Matt murdock once stated they are human too. there caes of there is no chose in protect someone in need from them or protect you self /self defense from them types of case. But others have differing view's on the matter.that character at the start of the show was in the act of something terrible.

The point is when lance and Oliver made that statement do they mean just people that don't commit crimes or do they want to protect even the criminals? when they say people are dying . some of us from the fan base here seem to exclude criminals for obvious reason's. Not completely good thing, but also understandable at times.

 

[Seb]

Well, technically, Sara didn't kill anyone (this season). Her body did, sure, but she wasn't in the driver's seat, and I'd hardly blame the owner for crimes committed using stolen property, and this amounts to the same thing.

That said, she still spent five years in the League, so she's definitely killed, probably innocents. (Actually, she might even have more blood on her hands than Oliver, depending on how frequent her missions were).

As for the Laurel vs. Oliver responsibility debate, I think it's safe to say that they both have abysmal judgement and extremely un-heroic levels of altruism (I will save my family member/lover even if it costs a bunch of other people their lives).

 

[zenith16]

Well, technically, Sara didn't kill anyone (this season). Her body did, sure, but she wasn't in the driver's seat, and I'd hardly blame the owner for crimes committed using stolen property, and this amounts to the same thing.

That said, she still spent five years in the League, so she's definitely killed, probably innocents. (Actually, she might even have more blood on her hands than Oliver, depending on how frequent her missions were).

As for the Laurel vs. Oliver responsibility debate, I think it's safe to say that they both have abysmal judgement and extremely un-heroic levels of altruism (I will save my family member/lover even if it costs a bunch of other people their lives).

Agreed if they were working for any state side agency domestically they'd both be fired and in prison. that were the case
s for cancelled show like the fallowing and grace land and I think state of affairs (only had one season ) cause their protagnist cross lines and it just hat tye cross line they were hypercrits and worse refuse to own up tot heir own actions)


And I agree with every thing you said here.

The reason this show is still on is cause it's dc related show and has more then the normal fan base and we want the comic hero shows to be successful and it may be in some way's the only chance to have them done live action. other wise they'd fall to way side like those show's too. unless the show was about you being corrupt fromthe start like the shield and your gonna have what's coming to you cause it's inevitable .... there's still alot to like with this show how ever. But the writer's need to make up their minds on certain things.

 

[Nathan]

The people killed weren't innocents, they were criminals and rapists. Sara didn't kill any innocent women.

Well, not for lack of trying. But even if she didn't succeed in killing any innocent women, I still find Laurel's lack of concern appalling. She can cry at the drop of a dime in any given situation, but when Thea (who all of a sudden is supposed to be like a little sister to Laurel) is hospitalized, because her actual sister, which she brought from the grave, is running around town, killing people, she's almost super calm.

I hate whiny Laurel, I really do. But if there's was a moment for her to feel completely helpless, distraught, out of her depth and struggling with the consequences of her actions, it should have been by Thea's side. Apologizing for what she did, and just in general being f**king sorry. But no. The moment she starts to whine and cry, is when she accuses Oliver of not viewing her as an equal. Where the hell were those emotions when her sister nearly killed Thea?

 

[Batsfan1]

Well, not for lack of trying. But even if she didn't succeed in killing any innocent women, I still find Laurel's lack of concern appalling. She can cry at the drop of a dime in any given situation, but when Thea (who all of a sudden is supposed to be like a little sister to Laurel) is hospitalized, because her actual sister, which she brought from the grave, is running around town, killing people, she's almost super calm.

I hate whiny Laurel, I really do. But if there's was a moment for her to feel completely helpless, distraught, out of her depth and struggling with the consequences of her actions, it should have been by Thea's side. Apologizing for what she did, and just in general being f**king sorry. But no. The moment she starts to whine and cry, is when she accuses Oliver of not viewing her as an equal. Where the hell were those emotions when her sister nearly killed Thea?

Probably the same place Oliver's were when he abandoned his friends, sister and the city to live in suburbia with Felicity and didn't wanna come back even though they were all telling him that they needed his help and they couldn't do this on their own and when he murdered over two dozen people, including for all intents and purposes innocent guards, allowed the brainwasher of his sister and murderer of hundreds of people, Sara and Tommy to get away scot free with the prize of a terrorist organization and lied to his family about a superpowered dangerous assassin that wanted to destroy him that he couldn't defeat, leaving them ignorant to the danger he posed.

God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!

 

[Batsfan1]

1. Thea was NOT dead when she was healed. This isn't up for debate. She was alive by every definition of the word.

No she wasn't. She was unhooked from life support, shipped to another country and laid on a slab as a ceremony was prepared. She was dead.

2. And Oliver was never informed of the risk. Because this is a TV show and people only seem to give warnings in the vaguest way possible, Oliver was never told that Thea would have an insatiable bloodlust until the day she dies (even though Malcolm definitely knew the specific details). And the person Oliver heard it from wasn't trustworthy. Laurel knew exactly what Sara would have to live with, having witnessed it with Thea, and knew that it would be far worse with Sara. She was fully informed of the consequences of her actions and chose to go through with them anyways.

Oliver was told that she would be changed in the soul. That the one he got back wouldn't be the one he knew. He didn't care how it changed her. He just wanted his sister back and he showed no desire to take it back. Like Laurel.

3. Laurel felt zero remorse. People were killed, the daughter and sisters of other human beings, and Laurel cared more about the fact that Oliver disapproved than she did about the lives actually being lost.

Just like Oliver didn't feel remorse when he was murdering people, even for all intents innocent guards. And he still doesn't.

God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!