The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Based on ASM2's box office and quality, was rebooting a mistake?

[hippie_hunter]

I don't think the concept of rebooting Spider-Man is a mistake. I think the way they rebooted it was the problem.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Darkman's cheese was clever and well executed.

I can't say the same for SM 1-3 which seemed to laugh at comic books more than anything.

SM3...sure. But I wouldn't say SM1 & 2 seemed to "laugh at" comic books.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

SM3...sure. But I wouldn't say SM1 & 2 seemed to "laugh at" comic books.

Well I guess there's two ways to view the cheese is SM1 and SM2.

Accurate to the comic books or condescendingly corny.

I find them guilty of the latter.

ASM2 has the same problem. Sony obviously wanted to copy Raimi's tone in an a last ditch attempt to re-capture his audience.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Well I guess there's two ways to view the cheese is SM1 and SM2.

Accurate to the comic books or condescendingly corny.

I find them guilty of the latter.

ASM2 has the same problem. Sony obviously wanted to copy Raimi's tone in an a last ditch attempt to re-capture his audience.

I don't see the humour as condescending in those 3. I'm not sure what to make of SM3 though, with Peter dancing down the street and in that bar with Gwen.

 

[Lord]

I think that's just Sam Raimi's humor, he's not trying to condescend anything, he just likes this old style of comedy that we don't really seem as much in movies anymore, and above all, what he wants is to entertain.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Raimi was true to his vision and he has always been a bit corny(in some movies more than others) but it comes off charming which is why people like it.

The new franchise is a giant contradiction. The first one was trying too hard to be like Batman Begins and since it didn't quite work they changed the tone for the sequel and its now a colorful "fun" Spidey movie(like Raimi's trilogy). Its fun to remember when TASM came out thier defensors were claiming "this one is actually realistic unlike Raimi's which was like a cartoon" lol

 

[Tony Stark]

I don't think the concept of rebooting Spider-Man is a mistake. I think the way they rebooted it was the problem.

Agreed.

 

[Tony Stark]

I think that's just Sam Raimi's humor, he's not trying to condescend anything, he just likes this old style of comedy that we don't really seem as much in movies anymore, and above all, what he wants is to entertain.

I agree with this. There's nothing wrong with this type of humor and it's certainly not condescending. Good grief there are numerous examples of that type of humor in the books.

What Raimi does is no different than what Whedon did with the "that man is playing Galaga!" line. No one complained about that being corny, they were too busy laughing their asses off!

 

[Tony Stark]

Raimi was true to his vision and he has always been a bit corny(in some movies more than others) but it comes off charming which is why people like it.

The new franchise is a giant contradiction. The first one was trying too hard to be like Batman Begins and since it didn't quite work they changed the tone for the sequel and its now a colorful "fun" Spidey movie(like Raimi's trilogy). Its fun to remember when TASM came out thier defensors were claiming "this one is actually realistic unlike Raimi's which was like a cartoon" lol

BINGO! Post of the day.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Even tho I think the reboot is a complete disaster Im not against that idea, I just think that Sony should have given Raimi the time and money he needed to make a great movie and it would have been the best for everyone.

 

[mace1]

I'll say it's rare that the critics are way off but it does happen.

Blade 1 (55%), Blade 2 (59%), MOS (56%), and Batman 89 (72%) all have scores that are at least 12 points too low and the user ratings are far more in tune with most people's assessment.

Many would argue Superman Returns (76%) and Spider-man 3 (63%) both have scores that are too high.

This is the critics real average score.
Blade 1 (5.7/10), Blade 2 (6/10), MOS (6.2/10), and Batman 89 (6.6/10).

Superman Returns (7/10), Spider-man 3 (6.2/10).

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I agree with this. There's nothing wrong with this type of humor and it's certainly not condescending. Good grief there are numerous examples of that type of humor in the books.

What Raimi does is no different than what Whedon did with the "that man is playing Galaga!" line. No one complained about that being corny, they were too busy laughing their asses off!

The galaga scene was very random. That's what made it funny.

There was nothing corny about it.

Corny would be the high school and pedestrian scenes in SM1 or the cookie girl/elevator/raindrops scenes in SM2.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

This is the critics real average score.
Blade 1 (5.7/10), Blade 2 (6/10), MOS (6.2/10), and Batman 89 (6.6/10).

Superman Returns (7/10), Spider-man 3 (6.2/10).

Which suggest the movies on the bottom are superior or equal to the movies on the top.

They are not.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Which suggest the movies on the bottom are superior or equal to the movies on the top.

They are not.

You said that as if it was a fact.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You said that as if it was a fact.

Well add an "IMO" to my statement if it makes you feel better. I stand by it either way.

 

[Human Torch]

Raimi's humor was very much in keeping with the MCU style comedy. (which is why if there was ever an inter-studio crossover,Raimi's would've been perfect )

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Raimi's humor was very much in keeping with the MCU style comedy. (which is why if there was ever an inter-studio crossover,Raimi's would've been perfect )

I disagree. Raimi's so-called comedy is very self-aware, tongue in cheek and child-oriented.

While not exactly high brow, MCU comedy can elicit a chuckle or two from the average adult.

 

[Visualiza]

I'll say it's rare that the critics are way off but it does happen.

Blade 1 (55%), Blade 2 (59%), MOS (56%), and Batman 89 (72%) all have scores that are at least 12 points too low and the user ratings are far more in tune with most people's assessment.

Many would argue Superman Returns (76%) and Spider-man 3 (63%) both have scores that are too high.

Many would also argue that MoS and TASM 2 also have scores and recommendations that are too high. In that respect, the critics are still off the mark, but in this case, they were far too generous in their assessments.

MOS was better received because it was a vast improvement from Superman Returns.

But you wouldn't know that looking at the critic score.

I don't know about a critics aggregate, but I did know that it was awful by watching the movie. Can't say it was an improvement over much of anything, save for Sucker Punch...maybe.

I don't think the concept of rebooting Spider-Man is a mistake. I think the way they rebooted it was the problem.

Bingo.

Raimi was true to his vision and he has always been a bit corny(in some movies more than others) but it comes off charming which is why people like it.

The new franchise is a giant contradiction. The first one was trying too hard to be like Batman Begins and since it didn't quite work they changed the tone for the sequel and its now a colorful "fun" Spidey movie(like Raimi's trilogy). Its fun to remember when TASM came out thier defensors were claiming "this one is actually realistic unlike Raimi's which was like a cartoon" lol

So much truth in this post.

The fallout from this movie has indeed been interesting, but it looks like some of the more ardent defenders are sticking by their guns, sink or swim. I've said it before, but it's hard for me to take anyone seriously who still comes to the defense of this franchise a mature, faithful, and more earnest take on the character while also going on the offensive about the humor and style of other genre movies. They just don't have a leg to stand on anymore (didn't really in the first place, but this time it's so obvious as to be indefensible). To prefer one over the other is one thing...but there was a lot of snobbery and vitriol spewed in the years leading up to these movies. Poetic justice if you ask me, maybe some folks will think twice in the future before putting foot in mouth, but then again, that's just par for the course on the interwebz.

 

[chaseter]

Actually Critics are the only ones to think that. Box office doesn't indicate audience opinion of quality just audience, those who went to see it.

General Audience do prefer ASM2 over SM3 as it's rated higher on both RT and IMDB than SM3

Box office can offer insight into quality. It isn't always an absolute indicator but it can correlate with non-biased sources. A movie having great legs is usually a box office indicator of quality.

General audience do not prefer ASM2 over SM3. Both have the exact same cinemascore first off. So you are wrong right off of the bat. The second indicator is box office take. That is the general audience polling with their wallets. When ASM2 makes less than ASM1, then you know something is wrong. If it's not quality, what is it? You can make up anything you want but that doesn't make it right. The last piece is the critical reception...which this movie came in with a pathetic 54% on RT or an average score of 5.9. On Metacritic it has a 53. For SM3, that is 63%, 6.2, and 59 respectively. So, the audience and the critics both prefer SM3 over ASM2. You have nothing to go on that says otherwise.

You then reference the RT user rating that has over 2 million less reviews than SM3. I wonder if that's apples to apples. The answer is no. ASM2's user rating has gone down 3% in just one week. Lets see where it is at in 5 years. That aside, like IMDB or RT is a good measure of the general audience lol. Hype trolls had ASM2 pumped up before the movie even came out. That must mean it is accurate!

 

[Visualiza]

Raimi's humor was very much in keeping with the MCU style comedy. (which is why if there was ever an inter-studio crossover,Raimi's would've been perfect )

On this I'll disagree. I think that Raimi definitely adheres to his own brand of humor. MCU humor seems to rely more on quick wit and pop culture references. Raimi tends toward self-deprecating humor much of the time.

I disagree. Raimi's so-called comedy is very self-aware, tongue in cheek and child-oriented.

While not exactly high brow, MCU comedy can elicit a chuckle or two from the average adult.

As can Sam Raimi's. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that adults can't appreciate humor geared towards kids. Pixar, Dreamworks, and Disney all say hello. Either way, considering the guys background and beginnings, I'd hardly consider Raimi's brand of humor to be childish.

 

[DACrowe]

Well I guess there's two ways to view the cheese is SM1 and SM2.

Accurate to the comic books or condescendingly corny.

I find them guilty of the latter.

ASM2 has the same problem. Sony obviously wanted to copy Raimi's tone in an a last ditch attempt to re-capture his audience.

Or a third way: a staple of Sam Raimi's style, which is unapologetically big, brash, and sometimes "corny." But it is never done in a condescending or smug way. It is why his first two movies are often described as joyful or "magical" by most general audiences and are still done to this day. Simon Kinberg while promoting Days of Future Past yesterday started waxing nostalgic about the Raimi movies--not that will probably mean much to a lot of fans as he did write TLS...

Still, there is just something euphoric about his Spider-Man allowing for his "cornier" tendencies (at least in the first two movies) to be overlooked. It also helps that his movies have heart, which is why his Norman Osborn can wear a lame costume or his Doc Ock can have conversations to himself and be considered great villains. In contrast, Electro and Rhino seem painfully campy.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Or a third way: a staple of Sam Raimi's style, which is unapologetically big, brash, and sometimes "corny." But it is never done in a condescending or smug way. It is why his first two movies are often described as joyful or "magical" by most general audiences and are still done to this day. Simon Kinberg while promoting Days of Future Past yesterday started waxing nostalgic about the Raimi movies--not that will probably mean much to a lot of fans as he did write TLS...

Still, there is just something euphoric about his Spider-Man allowing for his "cornier" tendencies (at least in the first two movies) to be overlooked. It also helps that his movies have heart, which is why his Norman Osborn can wear a lame costume or his Doc Ock can have conversations to himself and be considered great villains. In contrast, Electro and Rhino seem painfully campy.

Even in the third film, I don't have a problem with his style. The problems in SM3 stem mainly from script/plot issues more than a specific problem with the direction or tone of the franchise.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The fallout from this movie has indeed been interesting, but it looks like some of the more ardent defenders are sticking by their guns, sink or swim. I've said it before, but it's hard for me to take anyone seriously who still comes to the defense of this franchise a mature, faithful, and more earnest take on the character while also going on the offensive about the humor and style of other genre movies. They just don't have a leg to stand on anymore (didn't really in the first place, but this time it's so obvious as to be indefensible). To prefer one over the other is one thing...but there was a lot of snobbery and vitriol spewed in the years leading up to these movies. Poetic justice if you ask me, maybe some folks will think twice in the future before putting foot in mouth, but then again, that's just par for the course on the interwebz.

lol, the mediocre execution of the reboot doesn't make criticism of the Raimi trilogy any less valid.

The Raimi movies aren't perfect, not even SM2.

It's like watching Burton fans gloat about how Batman 89 was the best Batman movie had the Nolan reboot failed.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Had the Nolan reboot failed, Batman 89 would have been the best Batman movie though. Some people argue that now, although I disagree.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Raimi's humor was very much in keeping with the MCU style comedy. (which is why if there was ever an inter-studio crossover,Raimi's would've been perfect )

This. I could totally see Tobey's Peter interacting with Tony Stark and Bruce Banner in Avengers just like he interacted with Norman Osborn and Dr. Octavius.