The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Based on ASM2's box office and quality, was rebooting a mistake?

[Par Avion]

Huh? First of all the sentiment that none of the Spider-man movies are great is eerily rare. Most people latch onto SM2 and the remaining few latch onto ASM1 or ASM2.

Second, I've always disliked the Raimi movies. When I first saw the Twin Towers trailer I was incredibly hyped but then I saw the full trailer with the cheesy cafeteria scenes and my heart sank. The cast and tone felt off from the get go.

Honestly it would be weird for someone who enjoyed the Raimi films initially to trash them later in a desperate attempt to elevate the ASM series. Once a movie wins me over, I'm a fan for life. I don't understand anyone who would trash a movie they loved to improve another movies reputation.

Out of curiosity, what comic book films do appeal to you? What is your criteria for judging humour (ie. What is and isn't cheesy/condescending/"making fun of the comics")?

 

[The Endless]

Raimi's movies don't make fun of the comics. They have a very similar tone to the comics i think.

They are self aware, but not in an ironic or smug way.

And the way they are balanced is spot on, for the most part.

Was anyone laughing when Spidey and Gobby were having their final fight? Which is still to this day one of the most brutal i've seen in a CBM. The part where the pumpkin bomb goes off in Spideys face is real nasty.

The scene right at the end with Parker narrating with Elfman's fantastic score is really powerful. Great ending.

 

[Lord]

I thought rebooting was the perfect thing to do. How could you go on with SM3 on the belt? It would be like a stain on a white dress.

Going on, Bond had plenty of strinkers, Disney isn't ignoring teh Star Wars prequels, etc. It's not as if Spider-Man 3 was all that hated by the general public.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The reboot was the right thing to do, but there is something stopping it reaching its best and i am very much guessing its Sony, i think they are showing themselves to be very paranoid and just be playing it safe to much

 

[Lord]

It was way too soon to reboot, it's as if Disney suddenly decided to reboot Pirates of the Caribbean now, or if in 2018 we got another Iron Man origin story. This wasn't like Batman & Robin, where even the public had lost interest and the film bombed.

 

[Erzengel]

You have to remember Sony biggest franchises are the Spider-Man and Bonds films. If Sony doesn't routinely produce Spider-Man movies, the movies would revert back to Marvel. I'm guessing it's 10 years as Fox is releasing the new FF 10 years after the last "debacle".

As I previously said, Sony is going to cling and milk the Spider-Man movies for everything it has.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Just because they have to keep making movies, doesn't mean they had to reboot. James Bond has been going on since 1962 and only one time in 50 years was there ever more than 5 years between films, and that was because a lawsuit prevented them from filming.

 

[JOE]

It's easy to say just start the franchise off while he's already Spidey and skip the reboot. Which movies have been able to successfully pull that off? Superman Returns?

 

[BestGirl]

But ultimately I haven't been blown away by any Spider-man movie yet, Webb's or Raimi's.

In my opinion, the ASM series' downfall was trying to copy the cheesy Raimi elements. They should've stuck to their guns and tried to stay grounded with the villains to fit the dramatic elements which were far more effective than Raimi's.

If they had coninued to fine tune Spider-man's personality while figuring out how to make the villains both believable and compelling the reboot would've kept it's integrity if nothing else.

So your shoe doesn't really fit me.

This is exactly how I feel.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It's easy to say just start the franchise off while he's already Spidey and skip the reboot. Which movies have been able to successfully pull that off? Superman Returns?

Batman 89.

Superman Returns was a sequel to Superman I & II.

 

[Human Torch]

Out of curiosity, what comic book films do appeal to you? What is your criteria for judging humour (ie. What is and isn't cheesy/condescending/"making fun of the comics")?

A good question.

 

[Visualiza]

It's easy to say just start the franchise off while he's already Spidey and skip the reboot. Which movies have been able to successfully pull that off? Superman Returns?

Batman 89.

Superman Returns was a sequel to Superman I & II.

Add Blade and X-Men to that list as well. Thor wasn't exactly what I'd consider an origin story either.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Out of curiosity, what comic book films do appeal to you? What is your criteria for judging humour (ie. What is and isn't cheesy/condescending/"making fun of the comics")?

My top comic book movies would include Blade, Batman 89, Avengers, and Superman the Movie.

Of those, only STM could be considered cheesy but I fell in love with that movie as a young child.

Nostalgia is a hella of a drug.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The problem is that it was way too soon when the film series wasn't even broken, before trying to ressurrect interest in a franchise, it needs to be dead in the first place.

Exactly, as I have said before, if the X-Men franchise can recover from X3 and Origins, the Spiderman franchise would have had no problem recovering from Spiderman 3 which was a better movie than both.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The X-men trilogy increased the domestic box office with every movie.

The Spider-man trilogy consistently dropped domestically with every release.

The X-men franchise didn't need to go to extreme measures to reverse their trend. The Spider-man franchise did, they were just poorly executed.

 

[JOE]

The X-men trilogy increased the domestic box office with every movie.

The Spider-man trilogy consistently dropped domestically with every release.

The X-men franchise didn't need to go to extreme measures to reverse their trend. The Spider-man franchise did, they were just poorly executed.

The X-Men also didn't have a huge burst of a start like SM did in 2002. Big shoes to fill off the bat.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The X-Men also didn't have a huge burst of a start like SM did in 2002. Big shoes to fill off the bat.

True. And that very much affected SM2's ability to do as well (along with a worse release date). But we are five films in now and the domestic gross is still going down with each film. There is no reason why this film couldn't reach the already lowered target of TASM1. Other than the audience being burned out by years of unsatisfactory Spider-Man films.

 

[Erzengel]

Like I said before let's be honest, it's the Wolverine franchise.

You don't have to go through rebooting because you are working with older characters. And when you have someone like Hugh Jackman that at 45 still works as opposed to a character who should look like they are in late teens and early twenties for a majority of the franchise, it's hard to do a continuous storyline.

Look at Robert Downey Jr. From Iron Man to Avengers 3 in 2018, we are looking about 10 years worth of movies and it works.

I understand rebooting because you don't want to handcuff yourself creatively and only use certain characters because previous characters were killed off in the other movies. Also at the end of Spider-Man 3, you have MJ and Peter back together in 4 you have to create some sort of drama and as much as I loved the first 2 Spidey films how many times were you going to put MJ in danger? It was every movie. Spider-Man is difficult because he is the main character. X-Men regardless of their overuse of Wolverine and the Avengers have certain luxuries that Spider-Man doesn't.

 

[Spiderine]

In many ways SM3 just felt like the end rather than opening a new chapter. Peter and MJ were about to make the next step with marriage. Which means more repetitive drama and struggles between them. And her character was just at a point of no return. It was a travesty what they did with Gwen's character. Don't know why anyone would have wanted Topher's Brock back. Harry and Norman were gone and thus so was Oscorp. Sony was starting to put their fingerprints all over the next film just like SM3. I think it would have done worse than than SM3 financially. It was going to decline regardless.

 

[JOE]

The biggest disappointment I have with TASM 2 is there was too much going on with the make up/break up Gwen/Peter situation and Oscorp. I understand that was the focus of the movie, but they tried to wrap everything else up really quick. One of my favourite elements to Spider-Man besides his wit is that he's a kid. Fast forward to graduation? What?! They're skipping over some of the best parts of Peter Parker, save that for the third movie. The high school dynamic is amazing and one of the things I loved about TASM. It wasn't perfect, but there was more to it than just a cafeteria fight like in SM. Wasted potential.

 

[OcStat]

I agree with that, one of the main things they said they wanted to do was keep Peter in high school when they did the reboot, graduating right at the beginning of 2 seemed a little early. But it did set up Gwen possibly leaving to England.

Ultimate Spider-Man had Peter in high school the entire 160 issues.

But at least he was still living with Aunt May, that presents some good moments, that were totally skipped over in the first series.

 

[Spooderman]

Well they should have killed Gwen (and introduced Goblin, Norman!Goblin) in part 3.

 

[Atharun]

Re-booting was not a mistake, but I think they could have done without retelling the origins although I loved TASM 1. Quite frankly, as much as I love the S6 (depending on roster/version) I see Vulture being knocked as a Falcon Ripoff (from CA.WS), Doc Ock being knocked since he was in SM2, etc.. I think people like to hate. We are all entitled to our opinions yes, but I think even if an S6 movie or TASM3 has the S6, people would still find a reason to hate even if it was awesome.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The X-men trilogy increased the domestic box office with every movie.

The Spider-man trilogy consistently dropped domestically with every release.

The X-men franchise didn't need to go to extreme measures to reverse their trend. The Spider-man franchise did, they were just poorly executed.

But after the X-trilogy finished the BO returns started to drop, but FC and TW made enough for the franchise to keep going and brought back some faith that the franchise was good again, they may well see the rewards of this when DOFP is released.

Spiderman 4 could have done what FC and TC have done and brought some fans good faith back to the franchise and then who knows what would have happened with a Spiderman 5. If it was good it could have made a lot of money.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But after the X-trilogy finished the BO returns started to drop, but FC and TW made enough for the franchise to keep going and brought back some faith that the franchise was good again, they may well see the rewards of this when DOFP is released.

Spiderman 4 could have done what FC and TC have done and brought some fans good faith back to the franchise and then who knows what would have happened with a Spiderman 5. If it was good it could have made a lot of money.

but you could say the same of ASM1 and ASM2. If they were better executed, ASM2 could've been the first Spider-man movie to increase domestically.