The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Based on ASM2's box office and quality, was rebooting a mistake?

[MessiahDecoy123]

As can Sam Raimi's. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that adults can't appreciate humor geared towards kids. Pixar, Dreamworks, and Disney all say hello. Either way, considering the guys background and beginnings, I'd hardly consider Raimi's brand of humor to be childish.

Evil Dead has nothing to do with the level of humor in the Spider-man movies.

Just like the effective acting in THX-1138 has no bearing on the Star Wars prequels.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Had the Nolan reboot failed, Batman 89 would have been the best Batman movie though. Some people argue that now, although I disagree.

Batman 89 would've been the best Batman movie not the best Batman movie possible.

Some Raimi fans are assuming his movies can't possibly be topped simply because the reboot had weak execution.

 

[Visualiza]

lol, the mediocre execution of the reboot doesn't make criticism of the Raimi trilogy any less valid.

Never said it didn't. What I am saying, is that I question the integrity of someone who would defend what the Webb films did, and in much worse fashion, while shunning those same aspects in the Raimi trilogy. Doesn't apply to everyone of course, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

The Raimi movies aren't perfect, not even SM2.

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise. I've found that many Raimi fans agree on the more common criticisms. The difference is, there was a lot of very harsh, exaggerated vitriol directed towards the Raimi movies, and some of the more ardent Webb supporters justified this by resting on as yet unfulfilled, lofty promises and excuses -

"They just had to get the origin out of the way, now the next movies can tell amazing stories"
"The next movie(s) will be awesome. They can reimagine this or that, reintroduce things here or there, relive iconic moment A, B, and C, or improve upon X, Y, and Z where Raimi failed. Just you wait and see"
"That unresolved plot point/character thread will be in one of the next four movies. Just wait for it."

After this movie, it's fair to say that many of those same lofty promises and predictions failed to come to fruition.

It's like watching Burton fans gloat about how Batman 89 was the best Batman movie had the Nolan reboot failed.

I don't think that's quite what we're seeing here. We all want these movies to be good; it certainly doesn't give me pleasure as a Spider-Man fan to see the character crash and burn on the big screen. I liked two of the Raimi movies myself, but I prefer the prospect of something new and exciting to look forward to rather than resting on the past. Needless to say, the direction in which this franchise seems to be headed doesn't exactly give me much hope or confidence.

 

[Human Torch]

This. I could totally see Tobey's Peter interacting with Tony Stark and Bruce Banner in Avengers just like he interacted with Norman Osborn and Dr. Octavius.

The tone was very similar.It wouldn't have been a stretch at all.

 

[Visualiza]

Evil Dead has nothing to do with the level of humor in the Spider-man movies.

Just like the effective acting in THX-1138 has no bearing on the Star Wars prequels.

Fair point. Whatever the case, I still don't think that humor geared towards children is inaccessible to adults as you seemed to suggest. Again, look to Pixar, Dreamworks, and Disney. Beyond that, I fail to see what made the humor in the Raimi movies so childish in the first place. I've seen Seth Rogen comedies with more juvenile humor than what I've seen in any of the Spider-Man movies. I'd say that the humor in the old trilogy is just accessible to a younger audience, but that doesn't necessarily mean childish.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Batman 89 would've been the best Batman movie not the best Batman movie possible.

Some Raimi fans are assuming his movies can't possibly be topped simply because the reboot had weak execution.

Not at all. We don't want these films to fail. I don't like seeing bad Spider-Man movies. It isn't that the Raimi films can't be topped, it is that the current franchise hasn't topped them. Or even come close, really.

I am perfectly capable of liking more than one interpretation of the same character. I liked Man of Steel, even though it isn't as good as the Donner version. I still like the Burton Batman films, even though they aren't as good as the Nolan ones.

 

[The Joker]

Not at all. We don't want these films to fail. I don't like seeing bad Spider-Man movies. It isn't that the Raimi films can't be topped, it is that the current franchise hasn't topped them. Or even come close, really.

Seconded.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Never said it didn't. What I am saying, is that I question the integrity of someone who would defend what the Webb films did, and in much worse fashion, while shunning those same aspects in the Raimi trilogy. Doesn't apply to everyone of course, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Well I still rate the Webb films higher than Raimi even though it's popular to abandon ship and jump back on the Raimi bandwagon. But ultimately I haven't been blown away by any Spider-man movie yet, Webb's or Raimi's.

In my opinion, the ASM series' downfall was trying to copy the cheesy Raimi elements. They should've stuck to their guns and tried to stay grounded with the villains to fit the dramatic elements which were far more effective than Raimi's.

If they had coninued to fine tune Spider-man's personality while figuring out how to make the villains both believable and compelling the reboot would've kept it's integrity if nothing else.

So your shoe doesn't really fit me.

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise. I've found that many Raimi fans agree on the more common criticisms. The difference is, there was a lot of very harsh, exaggerated vitriol directed towards the Raimi movies, and some of the more ardent Webb supporters justified this by resting on as yet unfulfilled, lofty promises and excuses -

"They just had to get the origin out of the way, now the next movies can tell amazing stories"
"The next movie(s) will be awesome. They can reimagine this or that, reintroduce things here or there, relive iconic moment A, B, and C, or improve upon X, Y, and Z where Raimi failed. Just you wait and see"
"That unresolved plot point/character thread will be in one of the next four movies. Just wait for it."

After this movie, it's fair to say that many of those same lofty promises and predictions failed to come to fruition.

Really the origin story was the most common complaint from ASM1. Why would any fan have reason to expect the sequel would go full-Raimi with the cheese?

People wanted to believe the sequel would continue to break strides with the Raimi trilogy and explore new territory. But Sony sold out completely and tried to carbon copy Raimi as much as they could while salvaging the unresolved story elements. The result was an uneven trainwreck that even the detractors didn't accurately foresee.

I don't think that's quite what we're seeing here. We all want these movies to be good; it certainly doesn't give me pleasure as a Spider-Man fan to see the character crash and burn on the big screen. I liked two of the Raimi movies myself, but I prefer the prospect of something new and exciting to look forward to rather than resting on the past. Needless to say, the direction in which this franchise seems to be headed doesn't exactly give me much hope or confidence.

Yeah, hopefully other studios aren't learning the wrong lessons from Sony's failed experimentation.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Well I still rate the Webb films higher than Raimi even though it's popular to abandon ship and jump back on the Raimi bandwagon. But ultimately I haven't been blown away by any Spider-man movie yet, Webb's or Raimi's.

Oh here we go with the "If Webb movies are not good then Raimi movies aren't good either" attitude.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Oh here we go with the "If Webb movies are not good then Raimi movies aren't good either" attitude.

Huh? First of all the sentiment that none of the Spider-man movies are great is eerily rare. Most people latch onto SM2 and the remaining few latch onto ASM1 or ASM2.

Second, I've always disliked the Raimi movies. When I first saw the Twin Towers trailer I was incredibly hyped but then I saw the full trailer with the cheesy cafeteria scenes and my heart sank. The cast and tone felt off from the get go.

Honestly it would be weird for someone who enjoyed the Raimi films initially to trash them later in a desperate attempt to elevate the ASM series. Once a movie wins me over, I'm a fan for life. I don't understand anyone who would trash a movie they loved to improve another movies reputation.

 

[Tony Stark]

Batman 89 would've been the best Batman movie not the best Batman movie possible.

Some Raimi fans are assuming his movies can't possibly be topped simply because the reboot had weak execution.

They could be topped, they just haven't been, not by general consensus anyway.

 

[Tony Stark]

Had the Nolan reboot failed, Batman 89 would have been the best Batman movie though. Some people argue that now, although I disagree.

It's not, but Keaton is still the best Batman/Bruce Wayne to me. I also love the look of Gotham in that movie, and the Batmobile.

 

[Human Torch]

Seconded.

Thirded

 

[Lord]

The more grounded take in The Amazing Spider-Man 1 is what made things like the Lizard and super inteligent Peter & Gwen stand out more in a bad way.

Allways liked Sam Raimi's humor, he's not condescending anyone? He's self aware, but not in a negative way, if you see his interviews and talks it's obvious that his main interest is in pleasing the audience. It's James Franco who makes fun of everyone, not Raimi.

I myself allways liked those simple moments in his films, like the comedy with Mr Ditkovich, even some of the romantic elements were well handled, like Mary Jane and Harry cooking in Spider-Man 3, etc.

 

[thomass]

You will always get some revisionism in these types of things. I went back and watched the Rami films a little while ago and my thoughts really haven't changed. The first is thoroughly enjoyable, the second excellent and the third horrible. The worst thing in all of these things being the total lack of chemistry and believability of the leading pairs relationship.

That last is something Webb totally nailed and gives the rebooted films their biggest draw. I'm glad it was rebooted as it gave me the spider man I always had in my head. They aren't perfect but I suppose I like both sets of films for different reasons in the same way I think of the early Batman films and then Nolan's.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

If the time frame was different and they had waited just a bit longer to reboot, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Huh? First of all the sentiment that none of the Spider-man movies are great is eerily rare. Most people latch onto SM2 and the remaining few latch onto ASM1 or ASM2.

Second, I've always disliked the Raimi movies. When I first saw the Twin Towers trailer I was incredibly hyped but then I saw the full trailer with the cheesy cafeteria scenes and my heart sank. The cast and tone felt off from the get go.

Honestly it would be weird for someone who enjoyed the Raimi films initially to trash them later in a desperate attempt to elevate the ASM series. Once a movie wins me over, I'm a fan for life. I don't understand anyone who would trash a movie they loved to improve another movies reputation.

I never even implied that you ever liked Raimi's trilogy but very often people who love TASM pretend not to like either version so their opinion gets more validation instead of being dismissed as a Webb fanboy.

 

[LizardMan07]

I think TASM series is justified in it's existence by the clocktower scene at the end of TASM2. I'll never resent the reboots because it did something that no other spiderman movie did, and that's heighten the emotional impact of a scene to levels that CBM's don't really go too often.

Yeah, some pretty average things to come out of both franchises, but they've both given CBM's such great, powerful moments that I'd never resent either of them existing.

Train and Clocktower scenes from TASM2 and SM2 will probably go down as the most iconic in the spiderman films short history, but we'll wait and see if anything beats those in the years to come.

 

[Jumpman]

This reboot franchise wasn't a mistake. If we can have numerous interpretations of Batman and Superman, why not Spider-Man?

There's five Spider-Man films for fans to choose from. I don't get what the big deal is.

Some prefer the Raimi films. Some prefer the Webb films. That's about the end of this conversation.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

This reboot franchise wasn't a mistake. If we can have numerous interpretations of Batman and Superman, why not Spider-Man?

There's five Spider-Man films for fans to choose from. I don't get what the big deal is.

Some prefer the Raimi films. Some prefer the Webb films. That's about the end of this conversation.

It's like those who rage about the reboot or remake of any number of things Hollywood re-franchise these days. Some act like the originals can never be beaten, some act like the originals will up and vanish upon the arrival of the new one, some feel it's disrespectful to make more ect...

If one prefers the Raimi movies then there's three to sit, watch and enjoy. The ASM series isn't destroying all copies of them.

I don't see the benefit of competing them against one another, both are good imo, both have quirks unique to them ect...

 

[LizardMan07]

Hell yeah to this, a majority (50+1) of critics reccomend that people see the film, it ain't too bad

Spiderman is just so great, even SM3 is a good watch now and again.

Hopefully TASM3 is the movie that will unite Spider-Man fans with it's brilliance, and we can dance in the buckets of cash it makes and the wonderful RT score it gets

 

[Lord]

The problem is that it was way too soon when the film series wasn't even broken, before trying to ressurrect interest in a franchise, it needs to be dead in the first place.

 

[Leenie]

I don't think the problem is the reboot, exactly. I'm open to as many interpretations of Spidey as possible ... It's the timing and the quality of the films.

Sony had to rush the reboot to keep the rights, and the quality of the films have been affected by it (in my opinion).

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I thought rebooting was the perfect thing to do. How could you go on with SM3 on the belt? It would be like a stain on a white dress.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

I think TASM series is justified in it's existence by the clocktower scene at the end of TASM2. I'll never resent the reboots because it did something that no other spiderman movie did, and that's heighten the emotional impact of a scene to levels that CBM's don't really go too often.

Yeah, some pretty average things to come out of both franchises, but they've both given CBM's such great, powerful moments that I'd never resent either of them existing.

Train and Clocktower scenes from TASM2 and SM2 will probably go down as the most iconic in the spiderman films short history, but we'll wait and see if anything beats those in the years to come.

You are just awesome BRAB.