The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Based on ASM2's box office and quality, was rebooting a mistake?

[Erzengel]

One could say the BO started to drop after the X-3 and Wolverine Origins came out and almost ruined the franchise. It's interesting right now DOFP has 16 out 17 positive reviews. If this is reviewed well and does well in the BO that will be telling on the state of the franchise. Spider-Man has essentially taken a back seat to Batman and the Avengers movies now.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Well I still rate the Webb films higher than Raimi even though it's popular to abandon ship and jump back on the Raimi bandwagon. But ultimately I haven't been blown away by any Spider-man movie yet, Webb's or Raimi's.

In my opinion, the ASM series' downfall was trying to copy the cheesy Raimi elements. They should've stuck to their guns and tried to stay grounded with the villains to fit the dramatic elements which were far more effective than Raimi's.

If they had coninued to fine tune Spider-man's personality while figuring out how to make the villains both believable and compelling the reboot would've kept it's integrity if nothing else.

So your shoe doesn't really fit me.





Really the origin story was the most common complaint from ASM1. Why would any fan have reason to expect the sequel would go full-Raimi with the cheese?

People wanted to believe the sequel would continue to break strides with the Raimi trilogy and explore new territory. But Sony sold out completely and tried to carbon copy Raimi as much as they could while salvaging the unresolved story elements. The result was an uneven trainwreck that even the detractors didn't accurately foresee.





Yeah, hopefully other studios aren't learning the wrong lessons from Sony's failed experimentation.

Couldn't agree more. The underlying factor in all of this is that the franchise has never had a great director. Raimi has his Evil Dead cult following and a lot of fanfare from the first Spidey films, but he's not what I would call a great director. He has an unusual, distinct asthetic, but I consider him like I do Tim Burton, much more style over substance. Marc Webb had one pretty obscure rom-com under his belt, the well acted but criminally overrated (500) Days of Summer. At the end of the day nothing more then a clever gimmick.

Yet there was a time when James Cameron was going to do this and then David Fincher, but Sony didn't want to do the Death of Gwen Stacy, go figure. Fanboys complain about elements in Cameron's script or say Fincher doesn't have the right asthetic for Spider-Man, blah, blah, blah, but tell me those films wouldn't have been infinitely more interesting and held in higher esteem then the 5 films we got....It wouldn't even be close. Now the character is pretty much irredeemable to American audiences short of disastrous returns forcing Sony to sell the rights to Marvel and then being shelved for a decade because the character has become a tired, uninspired retread to audiences. Pathetic really.

 

[Spider-Fan]

One could say the BO started to drop after the X-3 and Wolverine Origins came out and almost ruined the franchise. It's interesting right now DOFP has 16 out 17 positive reviews. If this is reviewed well and does well in the BO that will be telling on the state of the franchise. Spider-Man has essentially taken a back seat to Batman and the Avengers movies now.

We'll see how the good reviews translate to BO revenue, though. First Class also had excellent reviews, but it still continued a downward trend domestically for the series. But, while The Wolverine also made less domestically than FC did, it managed to beat it WW. It will be interesting to see how the BO shakes up for the X-Men coming off more well liked entries in the series.

Spider-Man has taken a massive hit in his appeal. There is no doubt about that. I don't see how Sony is going to buck this trend. With the way they have been managing the series, I just see more of the same coming.

 

[Frodo]

The main problems with these folks is that they were basically supplementary material to what was already covered in the other series. I think whether fanboys like it or not, the other set if films were a pretty comprehensive telling of the Spiderman myth and Universe. These films basically had the stuff left over that hadn't been told from the comics and added minor things fans felt were lacking before. While that stuff is enough to please fans it isn't enough if you can't fully exploit the plot points and aspects which make the story interesting. In that sense, that was the problem rebooting so early. If you're gonna do Spiderman you gotta have it all.

 

[Will Nolte]

The only thing that saves Spidey right now is Sony selling back to Disney/Marvel and then he is used in the various MCU projects going on until his popularity is built back up. A wacky, lighthearted, one off of episode of AoS would do wonders for him...

 

[spiderral]

Spoilery spoilers have been blacked out.

• Oscorp playing a huge part
• The beginning of the formation of the Sinster Six ([BLACKOUT]Harry and The Gentleman knowing Peter's identity[/BLACKOUT])
• Ravencroft
• Felicia (Hardy) and Alistair Smythe
• Peter's parents ([BLACKOUT]Richard's experiments with spiders, the hidden lab[/BLACKOUT])
• [BLACKOUT]Death of a love interest[/BLACKOUT]

After having seen TASM2, it's all these elements that keep the TASM series fresh for me, showing us a large Spidey universe in these films and opening up the possibility for anything to happen in a sequel which I find pretty exciting, especially as it means that they don't have to tread over the same ground that Raimi's trilogy did (which is what I was afraid they would have done).
TASM2 makes me appreciate TASM1 as an origin story more (though I didn't feel like it was a very "Spider-Man film) just because they expanded on a lot of elements such as [BLACKOUT]Peter becoming Spider-Man, his father's work etc.[/BLACKOUT] but I do agree that if they are going to reboot again in the next decade or so, then another origin is not necessary.
I'm not sure if the 'general audience', as opposed to 'Spidey fans', will get that TASM2 hints at potentially bigger things to come (from what I listed) but it's why I, personally, would definitely see TASM3 and am glad that we have the reboot.

 

[JayTee]

It was a box office success, has mixed critic reviews and a cinemascore of B+. So no, it was not a mistake.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It was a box office success, has mixed critic reviews and a cinemascore of B+.

You can say the same things about Spider-Man 3, except Spider-Man 3 fared better critically, and made a lot more money.

So I don't think TASM 2's reception is enough to say it wasn't a mistake to reboot.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sony made a lot of mistakes with TASM2, for one thing releasing in the US 2 weeks late, I don't get why they did that, if they were trying to copy the avengers then that's weak logic because TASM2 and the avengers are very different, just because you add 3 villains in the marketing won't equal the same as watching iron man fight Thor, watching Thor fight the hulk, big city battles, and all TASM2' was getting marketed for was gwens death and the villains... That wasn't enough to get over confident about delaying it 2 weeks

Someone at AMC also said it may have been marketing fatigue where they started too early and so full on that many just got bored with what they were seeing or thought the movie was released long ago

 

[Lord]

I don't think it was marketing fatigue, i think it was that the marketing didn't really get people interested because the film didn't look very good to many, in least that's the vibe i got from personal experience.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

It was a box office success, has mixed critic reviews and a cinemascore of B+. So no, it was not a mistake.

This is denial. It got a B+ cinemascore from a greatly diminished audience. And that score is nothing to be proud about. I wouldn't call it a box office success either, especially in comparison with past films. The audience is dwindling with each entry and Sony is now synonymous with mediocrity. No, this character has been surpassed and deserves to take a back seat in popular culture by bigger and better franchises. Just look at the momentum for this series compared to other franchises. It will be on par with Cap 2 in terms of box office but tell me which franchise has the momentum going forward? Which film is likely to build it's audience with blu ray, television, future films etc? The answer is clear and it's not Spider-Man. This franchise is on an island and nothing will save it. It will always be in the MCU's shadow.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It was more the reviews than the marketing. There was genuine interest in this film a few weeks ago, but once it came out overseas and the response wasn't great it was like letting the air out of a balloon.

Just look back in this forum. The entire mood changed when the reviews started coming out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It was more the reviews than the marketing. There was genuine interest in this film a few weeks ago, but once it came out overseas and the response wasn't great it was like letting the air out of a balloon.

Just look back in this forum. The entire mood changed when the reviews started coming out.

Agreed. Reviews and WOM from people in the countries it opened in 2 weeks early REALLY hurt this film. I imagnie piracy played a role, as well. When you open 2 weeks early, many will seek alternate means to see the movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I don't think it was marketing fatigue, i think it was that the marketing didn't really get people interested because the film didn't look very good to many, in least that's the vibe i got from personal experience.

People liked the 2nd trailer but they were incredibly impressed with the 3rd trailer, I remember a lot of positive words about it

 

[Oscorp]

I'm thinking, is the box office results (which, from what I understand, is pretty disappointing) a product of:

a) Simply a bad movie with bad word of mouth, or

b) a lack of interest in the character Spider-Man period as a character (no matter the medium), now being in the shadows of Batman and The Avengers, or

c) a lack of interest in the movie character due to previous efforts (SM3, to some extent TASM), which means the public would be excited again if MS would get the rights, or

d) marketing ruining the film

A combination, or none of those above?


I'm starting to think it's a combination of A, B and C. Yes, I have a bad feeling Spider-Man isn't as popular anymore as a character. Probably due to how badly he's been handled in basically every kind of media.

 

[Spiderine]

I'm thinking, is the box office results (which, from what I understand, is pretty disappointing) a product of:

a) Simply a bad movie with bad word of mouth, or

b) a lack of interest in the character Spider-Man period as a character (no matter the medium), now being in the shadows of Batman and The Avengers, or

c) a lack of interest in the movie character due to previous efforts (SM3, to some extent TASM), which means the public would be excited again if MS would get the rights, or

d) marketing ruining the film

A combination, or none of those above?


I'm starting to think it's a combination of A, B and C. Yes, I have a bad feeling Spider-Man isn't as popular anymore as a character. Probably due to how badly he's been handled in basically every kind of media.

I agree with everything u said. I also think that we are entering an era of colossal superhero teamup films and combining universes of properties. Something Spiderman simply can't do.

 

[LizardMan07]

B and C and a sprinkle of D explain the opening weekend, A explains why it had no legs

 

[Lord]

Then i guess it was only around here, because from people i know, even those that liked the reboot were not excited by the trailers at all.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think both TDK and TDKR prove you don't need a team movie to crack a billion. You just need to strike that lightening in a bottle. They simply haven't done that with Spider-Man with the reboot series. Like I said in another thread, SM3 was a billion dollar film waiting to happen. Even with disappointing WOM, the film almost made a billion. I don't think 1 billion is unattainable for this property. Even after the decline. QoS disappointed people, but Skyfall was awesome, people loved it, it made a billion dollars. Spidey doesn't need a team-up or gimmick. He simply needs a great movie to rejuvenate the property. Whenever that happens, it is like Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think had Sony released it everywhere on the same day or week they would have benefits

TASM2 wasn't really a film you can bootleg and then think woah I need to see this on use big screen... Because what Sony was trying to sell it on was plot points rather then action

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think the reboot turned off a good number of viewers, but that they were ready to be won back by this film. When the reviews came out, most of these fence-sitters decided to pass.

Skyfall didn't have things nearly as bad as Spider-Man has now because the Bond franchise was only one film removed from the fantastic Casino Royale as opposed to having to go back a decade to SM2 and also because it still had the extremely popular Daniel Craig. Craig didn't take a hit whatsoever from QoS being a disappointment as most people agreed that he was by far the best part of that film and Casino Royale was still fresh in people's minds.

I think it will be tough for Spider-Man going forward. TASM2 was their chance to win back the audience and they blew it. TASM3 will be a much harder sell.

 

[Oscorp]

So, do you think that if tomorrow's news would be that Marvel Studios get the rights back to Spider-Man, do you think the general audience (and comic book fans as well, for that matter) would be super excited, or do you guys think it's reached a point where Spider-Man has lost his appeal to most people no matter what studio owns the license?

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Let's be honest, if it were announced tomorrow that Sony has sold the rights back to Marvel, I'd bet the internet would be on fire because of the hope and expectations that would come with such an announcement. Suddenly a world of possibilities would open up for the character and feed our imaginations. People would actually believe we'd get a good/great film.

I also think we need a break from the character. When someone is selling you something that you have diminished or little interest in, then it becomes annoying and looks really desperate. People aren't blind to this fact and that was part of the problem with TASM 2. A large segment of the audience were fatigued by the franchise with it's quick reboot and lackluster films so the advertising came across as almost needy, "please like us, please come see the film!" Overexposure always rubs people the wrong way but Sony didn't care apparently. A sign of desperation and a cry for help. They spent a ton on this and wanted to get paid off.

We''ll get more of the same in the future and no doubt threads like this will become the norm on websites everywhere.

 

[Spidey_62]

So, do you think that if tomorrow's news would be that Marvel Studios get the rights back to Spider-Man, do you think the general audience (and comic book fans as well, for that matter) would be super excited, or do you guys think it's reached a point where Spider-Man has lost his appeal to most people no matter what studio owns the license?

I don't think the general audience knows or cares about the difference between Marvel Studios or Sony or Fox films. There are a lot of people that don't understand the distinction and just see it all as Marvel movies.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

When it comes to reboots, you've got to go big or go home. Sony played it safe by tweaking the tried and true franchise formula. They earned the audience's apathy.

They could have done something novel like hiring an actual teenager, instead of another actor old enough to be a father of one. Look how popular Spectacular Spider-man was with Spider-Man fans. They could have produced a less expensive movie that stood out from the rest of the superhero crowd, captured the interest of the spider-faithful, and filled the live action family friendly niche that has been absent since Spy Kids.

Instead we get more of the same old same old.