The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[Mandalore464]

Not only would it not serve any purpose, but it would go against the title of the film and the natural progression of the series.

Wrong. First, it can be written so as to serve a purpose, so saying it won't is nothing but speculation on your part.

Second, the title is The Dark Knight Rises. Well, "The Dark Knight" is the name of the symbol, just like The White Knight was Dent's in TDK (and he was still called The White Knight after his death).

And symbols, or legends as Ra's put it, can live on even after the flesh has decayed. And that's what Bruce always intended to do with Batman, become a legend, a symbol, that could change people's minds and still have an influence over their lives after he, the human, had disappeared. Only a fool would think that they can change the world over the span of one lifetime. Batman also has to consider what will happen after he's gone.

The symbol can rise after Bruce has fallen, I don't see a problem in that.

 

[RedSkull]

Theres no way Batman should die. Heroes are not redeemed through death of their dark spots in their pasts. Now maybe "Batman" should die (as you can't kill an idea) but Bruce Wayne should of course live I think and the movie should end on the note that Batman will RISE again should the situation demand it. The protagonists don't die in movies like these. It's morbid wishful thinking on the part of some folks. Look at all the people that said Harry Potter would die in the final book. If Batman dies, this series took a major hit in my book.

 

[Hurm...]

I agree with everyone, that if he dies it should serve a very important purpose. However, I don't think he will die in this film. I think it will be a very strong theme throughout the film. It needs to be mentioned and explained even if Bruce/Batman does not physically die in the final movie. My ideal ending is Bruce living, as well as Alfred, and both of them emotionally coming to terms that they are destined to do this forever, and hoping that when it all ends, that this legend inspires Gotham.

 

[Solidus]

Theres no way Batman should die. Heroes are not redeemed through death of their dark spots in their pasts. Now maybe "Batman" should die (as you can't kill an idea) but Bruce Wayne should of course live I think and the movie should end on the note that Batman will RISE again should the situation demand it. The protagonists don't die in movies like these. It's morbid wishful thinking on the part of some folks. Look at all the people that said Harry Potter would die in the final book. If Batman dies, this series took a major hit in my book.

Well many heroes die even in the comics, though they find a way to resurrect them.

Heroes can easily be redeemed through sacrifice, and death. Read Joseph Campbell. To me I'm fine either way of what suits the story best. But a hero can be redeemed and actually made more of an example through death. The symbol of Batman always has to live on, that is why in things like Batman Beyond, or Robin/Nightwing ect there is a second generation taking his mantle and continuing on with it. Bruce can die, but the legacy of the Bat never dies.

 

[Mandalore464]

I hope (and think) he won't die either. It's an extremely difficult thing to do, write a popular character's death and make it appear both necessary for the story to come to its conclusion and make it appealing to an audience. Killing off Batman would take more than b*lls and could be misinterpreted by the audience as an easy way out for Nolan and his team ("I didn't know what to suggest for my Batman's future so I just killed him off")

Which doesn't mean it absolutely won't happen, but makes it highly unlikely.

 

[Solidus]

I hope (and think) he won't die either. It's an extremely difficult thing to do, write a popular character's death and make it appear both necessary for the story to come to its conclusion and make it appealing to an audience. Killing off Batman would take more than b*lls and could be misinterpreted by the audience as an easy way out for Nolan and his team ("I didn't know what to suggest for my Batman's future so I just killed him off")

Which doesn't mean it absolutely won't happen, but makes it highly unlikely.

I doubt the General audience will feel that way. Honestly most of them (even though they go) tire and mock movies that make 100 sequels and continue to just drag out forever.

Making a solid story and ending it, is much more appeasing to people that a story that goes on and on and on.

 

[Nevincer]

I doubt the General audience will feel that way. Honestly most of them (even though they go) tire and mock movies that make 100 sequels and continue to just drag out forever.

Making a solid story and ending it, is much more appeasing to people that a story that goes on and on and on.

Great post.

 

[The_Raganork]

If he dies/if he doesn't

Isn't what he creates as a legacy in the film more important?

Death or non-Death can't change that

 

[Solidus]

If he dies/if he doesn't

Isn't what he creates as a legacy in the film more important?

Death or non-Death can't change that

Yes very well put. It is about his legacy, just as it was with his family before him.

 

[Nevincer]

If he dies/if he doesn't

Isn't what he creates as a legacy in the film more important?

Death or non-Death can't change that

Definitely. Which is why TDK was still a fine film without anything like that. But his death may be as Devin described it perhaps poetic, or "shakespearean" in style, something new that really adds gravitas to the stakes this film presented and really gives that "conclusive" theme that Nolan is searching for.

 

[The_Raganork]

Definitely. Which is why TDK was still a fine film without anything like that. But his death may be as Devin described it perhaps poetic, or "shakespearean" in style, something new that really adds gravitas to the stakes this film presented and really gives that "conclusive" theme that Nolan is searching for.

It'll be conclusive with or without the death

Neither is going to make the series more conclusive.

The conclusiveness will come from his actions in the movie, not from his survival or lack thereof

Whatever he does in this film will be monumental.

Death or Non-Death is not going to out-do it.

So people offended at the thought of his death are admitting they don't care about the story, they only care about scenario.

And people who think he must die are doing the same.

 

[Nevincer]

Maybe but, it'll be minute compared to the legacy of the film.

Whatever he does in this film will be monumental.

Death or Non-Death is not going to out-do it.

So people offended at the thought of his death are admitting they don't care about the story, they only care about scenario.

And people who think he must die are doing the same.

Well I don't think he has to die. No way. But I am definitely discerning from the way Nolan has been in interviews and how WB is handling the future of these films, that it's a probability.

Hopefully that's fair and not as offensive as some people have been in this thread with the whole 'NO, IT'S NOT HAPPENING. I'D WALK OUT THE THEATRE. WHY DOES THIS THREAD EXIST? IDIOTS!' and more along the same lines as the people that think it's possible but unlikely/wouldn't want it I have no gripe with you guys.

 

[The_Raganork]

Well I don't think he has to die. No way. But I am definitely discerning from the way Nolan has been in interviews and how WB is handling the future of these films, that it's a probability.

Hopefully that's fair and not as offensive as some people have been in this thread with the whole 'NO, IT'S NOT HAPPENING. I'D WALK OUT THE THEATRE. WHY DOES THIS THREAD EXIST? IDIOTS!' and more along the same lines as the people that think it's possible but unlikely/wouldn't want it I have no gripe with you guys.

Mhm, I'm saying there's no indication either way; so for anyone to say how likely it is is silly.

No one knows.

Even with proof you cant say "He Can't die because..."

Because you're wrong; he can die.

Furthermore you can't say: "He will die because..."

Because you're wrong; he can live.

I've read every post in this thread; the only ones that work are akin to:

"I don't want (think) Batman will survive (die) because the films have suggested this:"

Proof from the films is the best proof to have, if at the end of the day you can acknowledge you can be very wrong, then you've done a good job.

If you've tricked yourself into thinking you're right anymore than someone else is then you've messed up.

Neither arguments are more right. Some have have better reasonings but, no closer to the truth than the other.

 

[not_a_victim]

If he dies/if he doesn't

Isn't what he creates as a legacy in the film more important?

Death or non-Death can't change that

Most certainly it could.
If Batman were to die while he was wanted and pursued by GPD, he would die a villian in the eyes of Gotham.
If he dies redeeming himself, it would set him up almost a mythic hero.
That's just basic storytelling.

 

[Truu]

I don't think he will die, but I would love it if he did.

 

[The_Raganork]

Most certainly it could.
If Batman were to die while he was wanted and pursued by GPD, he would die a villian in the eyes of Gotham.
If he dies redeeming himself, it would set him up almost a mythic hero.
That's just basic storytelling.

You just proved my point.

It's not the death that matters but, what he does before his death or lack thereof.

 

[not_a_victim]

I hope (and think) he won't die either. It's an extremely difficult thing to do, write a popular character's death and make it appear both necessary for the story to come to its conclusion and make it appealing to an audience. Killing off Batman would take more than b*lls and could be misinterpreted by the audience as an easy way out for Nolan and his team ("I didn't know what to suggest for my Batman's future so I just killed him off")

Which doesn't mean it absolutely won't happen, but makes it highly unlikely.

Your post contradicts itself. First you say killing off a popular character is extremely difficult to do, then you go on to say it would be the easy way out for Nolan.
If Nolan et al have proved nothing else with this series, it's that they can write exceptionally well.

And remember, this is not strictly the comic book Batman. This Batman is not doing this for revenge, he's doing it for his love of the city. He wants nothing more for Gotham to NOT NEED HIM. If it appears Gotham doesn't need him anymore, he may "kill" Batman himself.
BTW, it almost sounds in the teaser that Wayne has at least taken a hiatus from being Batman, with the line, "What if he doesn't exist anymore."
If that is the case, then the story will have come full circle..
1. Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham as the prodigal son.
2. Batman dissapears for a while, then returns, thus being the second version of the prodigal son.
The more I think about it, the more I am inclinded to think "Batman" will "die", either literally or figuratively.

 

[Truu]

You just proved my point.

It's not the death that matters but, what he does before his death or lack thereof.

But the death strengthens that. Like you pointed out in another thread, it wasn't until his father died that he became a legend and people reacted to it. Same with Batman.

 

[The_Raganork]

But the death strengthens that. Like you pointed out in another thread, it wasn't until his father died that he became a legend and people reacted to it. Same with Batman.

I said it worked for Thomas but for Batman to be bigger than Thomas, surviving would seem to be the method to go.

and even if it strengthens it, it's not the focus.

the Focus is WHAT he does, not IF he dies.

To rest this entire legacy on Bruce's survival is really a slap in the face to the nature of these films.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think it should be like the metaphorical death of Batman that was see. In Batman RIP. Most writers had been trying to show that since the death of the Waynes, Bruce was never really Bruce, he was Batman, just without his totem. RIP showed what it would be like if he was truly just Batman. And that he was actually being wrestled around between the two, and he sees that he is actually both, Bruce and Batman are one in the same.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Well many heroes die even in the comics, though they find a way to resurrect them.

Heroes can easily be redeemed through sacrifice, and death. Read Joseph Campbell. To me I'm fine either way of what suits the story best. But a hero can be redeemed and actually made more of an example through death. The symbol of Batman always has to live on, that is why in things like Batman Beyond, or Robin/Nightwing ect there is a second generation taking his mantle and continuing on with it. Bruce can die, but the legacy of the Bat never dies.

Great post. I can see both sides of this argument, but what I don't understand is why so many are narrow-minded about the idea of him dying. I think the story could work really well depending on how it's handled. One thing we know is Nolan is a master at ending a movie, so I'm sure this one will be a stellar ending once again regardless of whether Bruce lives or dies.

 

[Spidey 2007]

Batman wont die in this film. When nolan made batman begins he wanted the character to live on after the credits even if he didn't do another batman film. He might fake his death, that makes sense, but in no way will Bruce Wayne actually die. Confirmed.

 

[Truu]

Batman wont die in this film. When nolan made batman begins he wanted the character to live on after the credits even if he didn't do another batman film. He might fake his death, that makes sense, but in no way will Bruce Wayne actually die. Confirmed.

Unconfirmed.

It's unlikely, but possible.

 

[Spidey 2007]

Unconfirmed.

It's unlikely, but possible.

Haha wanna bet? An actual death of bruce wayne wont happen.

 

[Truu]

Haha wanna bet? An actual death of bruce wayne wont happen.

Probably not, but it's not confirmed either. That is just spreading misinformation.