Black Superheroes Movies - Part 1

[Vid Electricz]

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but this got me thinking about how a Black Panther movie could be perfectly executed... As in, would it be more effective as a straightforward action film or as a more subtle, thinking mans action film ala TDK, with meaningful themes woven into the narrative?

I personally would love to see a Black Panther movie that walks the fine line of never ignoring the fact that this is an important black superhero, all the while never emphasizing it and bashing you over the head with it either. I can't stand when things are taken to extremes like that. It'd be like walking a tightrope. Just to get the perfect mix of respecting the audience and the audience respecting the character. Just my two cents.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well it's Marvel thats making it and while Ive liked all the movies theyve made on some level they more staightforward action films than subtle. So I'm assuming, and would be surprised if they didnt, make it a straight forward action film

 

[Vid Electricz]

Well, it doesn't have to be artsy, per se. But perhaps something closer to Captain America than Daredevil. I want the characters to have pathos so we feel something for them as human beings and relate to them, rather than a mindless action hero adventure. I want political undertones (Like that'd ever happen) and some intelligent food for thought. I think BP is a character that has so much potential and so many possibilities...and it'd be just like Hollywood to screw it up.

 

[E-Man]

A Black Panther film should be the "thinking man's" action movie. Plenty of action should happen, but I want to see a lot emphasis on T'Challa's intellect like they did with Tony Stark.

 

[Paradox1]

I don't currently think marvel could do subtle or intellect their beat movie this year was done by fox which was good on all levels. Don't get me wrong none of them were bad just not emotionally provactive or thought provoking.

 

[chamber-music]

If they shoot on location in a section of Africa and just CG the more technical parts of the nation, then yeah. I seriously doubt it could cost them that much to shoot there, unless the local government is just *******s about it.

If they do shoot in Africa they will film in South Africa like they usually do because it has the infarstructure and its cheap.

 

[WildcatNC]

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but this got me thinking about how a Black Panther movie could be perfectly executed... As in, would it be more effective as a straightforward action film or as a more subtle, thinking mans action film ala TDK, with meaningful themes woven into the narrative?

I personally would love to see a Black Panther movie that walks the fine line of never ignoring the fact that this is an important black superhero, all the while never emphasizing it and bashing you over the head with it either. I can't stand when things are taken to extremes like that. It'd be like walking a tightrope. Just to get the perfect mix of respecting the audience and the audience respecting the character. Just my two cents.

I'd prefer a movie about a hero who just happens to be from Africa and is black. Leave race out of it. If you have to put those kind of nods in there then substitute culture instead, which there is plenty of disparity of in Africa and contrasts sharply with America.

I think there is a danger of him coming off as a "token" hero. I vote for true color blindness. Give him a faithful send up just like the other Marvel heroes have gotten.

 

[DarKush]

I don't believe in color blindness. T'Challa is a black African. People are going to see that and react one way or the other. I don't think Marvel can run from that or should de-emphasize it, or deracialize him. I for one 'don't happen' to be black. It makes it sound like black folk are on this planet by accident. I am black and there's nothing to be ashamed of about that.

In terms of it 'being about race' I don't always get what people mean by that. And I think 'injecting race' means different things to different people. I don't think it would be wise for them to talk about issues of racism or colonialism directly, even though it would be great if they did, so in that regard I'm cool with not including 'race'.

But in terms of excluding his culture or history/history of Africa and Wakanda, I want them to maintain T'Challa's uniqueness. And it would be great to see a movie based in Africa and focusing on issues on that continent, many of which are shared by many other countries, so there is already universality there despite the Western media's sometimes distorted depictions. I have no desire to see T'Challa be a tan Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne.

Back to color blindness. Instead of pretending we don't see color, how about we just embrace the colors of the human rainbow instead? All of that uniqueness and difference, yet all having a common humanity. To me, colorblindness is a dodge, a tactic to not address continuing racial issues or racial disparities.

 

[chamber-music]

Yes we are black but we are not simply defined by are ethnicity.

As Martin Luther King said

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I black and proud of it but their are more to me than just my race which is a part of me but not what defines me as a person.

They shouldn't ignore the fact his black but he doesn't have to walk around talking non-stop about black issues either.

On the subject of Black Panther I hope whoever makes the movie remembers the various African Cultures is not the same as African American culture or Carribean culture or Afro European culture or Afro-South American culture.

 

[terry78]

It's a fine line. You don't want it to be all "black power" nor do you want it to be like "color issues don't exist in our little rainbow world of puppies and kittens raining from the heavens." Somebody is gonna have an issue with an African nation having that much juice.

 

[E-Man]

It's a fine line. You don't want it to be all "black power" nor do you want it to be like "color issues don't exist in our little rainbow world of puppies and kittens raining from the heavens." Somebody is gonna have an issue with an African nation having that much juice.

That always makes me laugh when people say that Wakanda is too unrealistic. Of all the fake **** in the Marvel U it's Wakanda that gets their panties in a bunch? They can believe that a pacemaker can run a WMD, or that a Norse god wants to hang out and protect a city of 8 million superheroes with his drinking buddies. But an advanced African kingdom? No way man. Those people only had sticks and rocks. Shouldn't they be singing in the ghetto or something?

 

[chamber-music]

In the comics they all ways got foreigners coming after Wakandas resouce vibranium which I'm sure they can address that and perhaps have foreigners trying to spy on Wakanda steal wakandan technology.

I don't want to see T'Challa having the cure for cancer and not giving it to people though as that just makes him look like a petty *****e.

More Christopher Priest and less Hudlin mary sue stuff

 

[chamber-music]

That always makes me laugh when people say that Wakanda is too unrealistic. Of all the fake **** in the Marvel U it's Wakanda that gets their panties in a bunch? They can believe that a pacemaker can run a WMD, or that a Norse god wants to hang out and protect a city of 8 million superheroes with his drinking buddies. But an advanced African kingdom? No way man. Those people only had sticks and rocks. Shouldn't they be singing in the ghetto or something?

Thats because some people outside Africa have a warped idea of modern Africa. They only see the stuff on the news and think everyone lives in mud huts they don't think of modern cities for some reason




Wakanda doesn't look too different to modern day Dubai or Singapore

 

[E-Man]

Aren't there terrorists in Dubai? Also, isn't Singapore that one place where Bruce Lee beat up some bad guys? Or maybe it was Chuck Norris...

 

[Paradox1]

I would rather not Wakanda look modern at all I want to see dirt rodes, no cars, huge statues of the 4 wakanda tribal gods. Then have this huge secret hiding in plain sight that the whole world can see. I mean see because I assume those thousand spy satelites in sky have scanned much of the world

I do not think you can avoid the race issue with a man who is an african king protecting his country from outside western forces. You just have to deal with it without it dominating the entire movie.

by the way found this on IGN the Fan made Street movie " Balrog:Behind the Glory" http://ps3.ign.com/articles/118/1187644p1.html its hilarious

 

[DarKush]

Chamber Music,

Dr. King said a lot of things, like this for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suw_CQ3zfTY

However the mainstream seems stuck on only "I Have a Dream", and only on one portion of that speech. It trips me out that MLK lived five more years after that and made a lot of speeches but the totality of his existence today revolves around one speech, and mainly just the line you quoted. One that I feel conservatives and liberals who want to use colorblindness to mask continuing problems beneath "Dream's" flowery rhetoric. Though I don't think it benefits us to simply quote MLK. Why should we be beholden to his "Dream", a dream even he wasn't so certain of by the time of his murder. I was born almost a decade after King's assassination. I believe he should be studied and read by everyone, but the idea that he we should worship the man (not saying you're doing that) is something I'm not down with. He has become a remote, mainstream saint, not the vibrant leader he was in life, and in a way he has been used to remove the agency of the common people, which were the backbone of the Civil Rights movement. We are taught to look on high at a distant saviour instead of taking up the causes he fought for and died for, and still persists, today, and completing the work. I think the overreliance on MLK, Malcolm X, and other thinkers and activists of that era just reveal how bereft of ideas our current leadership is.

We are black, and we are also other things as well. I'm not saying that T'Challa should solely be defined by his race, ethnicity, nationality, etc., but his race has and will factor into his success-first in publishing-and then in any eventual movie.

Often other people can't get beyond our skin color due to all of the negative connotations ascribed to it. And even if some of us do 'transcend' we are "exceptions", instead of folks who just don't fit into the prevailing external stereotypes about blacks. Why do we have to make it a choice between being black and being all the other things we are? Why can't our blackness be beneficial or give us a particular worldview or way of seeing and doing things that adds to humanity, and doesn't need to be transcended in order for white people to accept us.

As for Wakanda, I wouldn't mind if they went futuristic with it. Why not blow people's minds and preconceptions about Africa? It seems when it comes to issues of black people in this country we go for the lowest common denominator. We don't want to offend or rile up white folks so we tuck our heads down too much. Ultimately we won't know what white people will support regarding Panther until its presented to them. If we lowball it too much it might come off looking cheap and unappealing, beyond the racial makeup of the hero and cast. I would hope that the filmmakers would at least be as bold as Stan Lee, etc. in creating Panther in the 60s, comparatively speaking. Show us an Africa that is seldom seen in the Western press, or an Africa that can be. There's all types of African scholars, writers, artists, they could enlist in this. As well as black artists across the diaspora.

 

[Red Mask]

Thats because some people outside Africa have a warped idea of modern Africa. They only see the stuff on the news and think everyone lives in mud huts they don't think of modern cities for some reason

Wakanda doesn't look too different to modern day Dubai or Singapore

There's a lot of wonderful architecture, both ancient and modern, around Africa. But there is no definitive look for Wakanda, anymore than there's a definitive look for Gotham City or Metropolis. Artists should feel free to continue exploring African styles to dream of a Wakandan culture.

 

[Red Mask]

I do not think you can avoid the race issue with a man who is an african king protecting his country from outside western forces. You just have to deal with it without it dominating the entire movie.

A Black Panther movie should not be afraid to address social-political issues. But I think it's important to also address political issues between African countries, not just the West's relationship with Africa.

 

[WildcatNC]

I don't believe in color blindness. T'Challa is a black African. People are going to see that and react one way or the other. I don't think Marvel can run from that or should de-emphasize it, or deracialize him. I for one 'don't happen' to be black. It makes it sound like black folk are on this planet by accident. I am black and there's nothing to be ashamed of about that.

In terms of it 'being about race' I don't always get what people mean by that. And I think 'injecting race' means different things to different people. I don't think it would be wise for them to talk about issues of racism or colonialism directly, even though it would be great if they did, so in that regard I'm cool with not including 'race'.

But in terms of excluding his culture or history/history of Africa and Wakanda, I want them to maintain T'Challa's uniqueness. And it would be great to see a movie based in Africa and focusing on issues on that continent, many of which are shared by many other countries, so there is already universality there despite the Western media's sometimes distorted depictions. I have no desire to see T'Challa be a tan Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne.

Back to color blindness. Instead of pretending we don't see color, how about we just embrace the colors of the human rainbow instead? All of that uniqueness and difference, yet all having a common humanity. To me, colorblindness is a dodge, a tactic to not address continuing racial issues or racial disparities.

Maybe I didn't word it properly but my main concern is that "American" racial paradigms will be woven into the movie. Black culture in America is NOTHING like it is in Africa. Things are viewed very differently over there. I would be happy with an African depiction of things.

Are don't think the color of T'Challa's skin dictates who he is. Where he's from? Who his father was? Sure. Africans don't have the same complex about race that Americans often do.

 

[DarKush]

^
I think you are a bit too adamant about the differences between the racial experiences of African Americans and Africans. They were different, but not as different as I think you believe, in some respects. I don't think the gulf is so insurmountable.

I will say that there is a possibility that American ideas or notions of race will factor into a BP movie because it will probably be largely conceived and funded by Americans. And the American audience will likely be the target audience they care the most about. Just like American ideas about a lot of issues are transposed on movies about places all over the globe.

It depends on the African you talk to, just like the American, if they have a 'complex' about race or not. I've read articles from African journalists and spoke to some Africans during my graduate studies, that would dispute that claim. Some share similar ideas about race that some African Americans do. I'm sure others do not.

 

[Red Mask]

Are don't think the color of T'Challa's skin dictates who he is. Where he's from? Who his father was? Sure. Africans don't have the same complex about race that Americans often do.

I hope they don't use cliches like "remember where you came from" and such. Why would Black Panther ever say something like that, or even say that to anybody except a fellow Wakandan?

 

[Paradox1]

^
I think you are a bit too adamant about the differences between the racial experiences of African Americans and Africans. They were different, but not as different as I think you believe, in some respects. I don't think the gulf is so insurmountable.

I will say that there is a possibility that American ideas or notions of race will factor into a BP movie because it will probably be largely conceived and funded by Americans. And the American audience will likely be the target audience they care the most about. Just like American ideas about a lot of issues are transposed on movies about places all over the globe.

It depends on the African you talk to, just like the American, if they have a 'complex' about race or not. I've read articles from African journalists and spoke to some Africans during my graduate studies, that would dispute that claim. Some share similar ideas about race that some African Americans do. I'm sure others do not.

I agree I have a African friend from Liberia who was forced out by cival war in his country. The man who started that war was a man who was taught in the us which he suggested might of been a ploy by the US to destablize the region. However if a movie is made I think it will be pretty bland just judging from marvel latest projects except X-men.

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't think this movie will get made if there isn't a sort of color-blindness to it. I agree that it should touch on social issues, without making the audience (mostly white audiences) feel alienated or accused. That's why I don't think that real life African ideas of racial issues are very relevant, since the countries involved (Wakanda, as a character, and America, as the target audience) don't hold those same ideas.

But looking at the Marvel movies, they don't really get into many of the complexities or uniqueness of the characters beyond what the actors can personally bring in RDJ's case, and the powerset. These are heroes we recognize from a dozen movies. When bankable black stars get on screen, Freeman, Denzel, Smith and SLJ, basically, they don't bring any racial issues with them, for the most part. If they do, it's for a drama, and definitely not for an action film. This isn't because of their particular views on race, but because an action movie is meant for the masses, and unless they can all get behind the morally justified (that is, victim's), side of the oppression, they will be turned off.

Which is why I ask the questions about budget and location. How much are you pandering to the audience that does not visually identify with Africa, and how much are you expecting from them, critically and commercially?

I think a colorblind movie that treats Wakanda like some sort of mythical place, and includes people like Ross in an important role can bring in enough money to justify at $100M budget.

If you're touching on social issues, you need to be prepared to make most of your money overseas, imho. Take AVATAR for example. Great film, a very well executed story, but criticized thoroughly in the west. Everywhere else? Ate it up. The downside, Black Panther won't be the highest grossing movie of all time, so it can't afford to have a literally incalcuable budget.

 

[terry78]

It should be accessible to the masses yet at the same time if no mention of how the rest of the world kind of subtly views Wakanda as this upstart nation isn't present, I'd feel like they kind of sidestepped it for fear of not pushing the envelope.

 

[Omega Red]

I would even take Black Manta in a Justice League movie right now, I know its sad