Bryan Singer's X-Men 3

[Boba_Fett_123]

I don't believe I ever implied that. I'm just saying, when the chips are down, and budget becomes an issue, compare Singer's idea for "budget Sentinels" to Ratner's.

Keep in mind that the original plan for Sentinels in X2 called for a massive Phoenix vs. Sentinels showdown at the end. Fox continued to cut the budget, until eventually ONE Sentinel would open the Cerebro door. Singer (rightly so) thought that was ******edly lame, and cut Sentinels entirely. Do I think we'd have gotten more than some headlights and a ****ty head in X3 had Singer done the story? Hell yes.

 

[Dan33977]

Would you agree with his statement of "Batman and Robin has better and more intelligent dialogue than Batman Begins?"

Oh, certainly not, but I don't see what this has to do with the discussion at hand. I merely stated that I usually agree with him, not always. I've always known TheGuard had his qualms about BATMAN BEGINS. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with them. I actually didn't know he said this specifically about BATMAN BEGINS, though. If what you said is true, then I'm a little disappointed...

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Oh, certainly not, but I don't see what this has to do with the discussion at hand. I merely stated that I usually agree with him, not always. I've always known TheGuard had his qualms about BATMAN BEGINS. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with them. I actually didn't know he said this specifically about BATMAN BEGINS, though. If what you said is true, then I'm a little disappointed...

Oh, he said it. More than once too. I know it has nothing to do with X3 in general, but it was necessary to show his credibility as a poster, since he thinks he's so much more intelligent than the rest of us.

He specifically stated "Batman and Robin had better dialogue, and the puns Freeze/Ivy used were better than Scarecrow and Ra's in Batman Begins."

His exact words. Of course, he'll deny it and call me a liar, but I definitely remember what he said which is why I don't really hold him credible in terms of great quality or understanding films that have great potential.

 

[WorthyStevens]

???

Angel was to be seen flying overhead for a second when Xavier and Logan toured the X-mansion in X-MEN. That was it for him.

Angel in X2 was to be a cameo in Alkali Lake with Cyclops, and probably would never have flown, or had any arc to speak of.

In X3, he had multiple scenes, including two very powerful ones, and was integral to the overall thematics of the film. And he flew. Several times. You're telling me the ideas Singer had for Angel are better than what Vaughn/Ratner provided? Get your head examined.

As I said, 3-4 minutes of actual screentime is not that much better. And those two powerful scenes? They were a part of a storyline between Warren and his dad that went NOWHERE.

Here we go with this "INO" nonsense. The character's name in X3 was Warren Worthington, and he had wings like an angel. He was a version of Angel, whether you like it or not. By your logic, we're still waiting for the correct versions of Wolverine, Storm, and god knows who else from Singer's time on the franchise.

That's [almost] completely false. Wolverine was developed in the first two to as he was in the comics. A loner that came with rage and a troubled past. Storm, well, she was kinda underdeveloped.

But Angel? Come on. Personality-wise, he was NOTHING like he was in the comics. Where was his self-confidence and ego? Sure, he MIGHT have had those qualities, but the movie didn't spend enough time on him to show that. And he didn't even help the X-Men at the end. The fact that he puts others before himself should have put him in the battle, not just saving his dad.

And when it comes down to it, his personality is one of, if not his most important traits.

And you believe that Singer would have topped the godlike usage of power from Dark Phoenix because...

Because of her development from the first two movies. She goes from intimidatable Jean Grey from X1, to starting to lose her control of her powers in X2.

Did you watch the scenes where Jean Grey DID things? They were amazing. Jean's best moments in X-MEN and X2 were silent. Ditto X3.

But she wasn't a mute in the first two. It would have been nice to hear her talking during the last part of the movie.

It's not really about SEEING the damn thing, it's about what it does, and what context its used in. Singer wanted Sentinels to help Stryker's men open the door to Cerebro. Ratner showed us a giant robot in a warzone ripped right out of Days of Future Past, tearing things to hell with lasers.

The Sentinel did it's job in the DR, but why the hell would it just stand there in the shadow and fog? All it was there for was to show off Wolverine under the guise of training.

These are Zak Penn's ideas. Not Bryan Singer's. If you pay attention to what Penn says, it certainly sounds like Bryan Singer REJECTED these ideas and chose to go with his own ending to X2.

It was cut for budget reasons.

He's an arrogant rich ******* with a heart of gold who the ladies love. That's about it, really. Sure, he's had good moments in the comics, but short of Angel-centric movies, and without the inclusion of Apocalypse, we were never going to get all that many good "Angel" moments in this franchise.

And that's why Singer would've been better handling Angel than Ratner and his writers. Singer is character-driven.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

As I said, 3-4 minutes of actual screentime is not that much better. And those two powerful scenes? They were a part of a storyline between Warren and his dad that went NOWHERE.



That's [almost] completely false. Wolverine was developed in the first two to as he was in the comics. A loner that came with rage and a troubled past. Storm, well, she was kinda underdeveloped.

But Angel? Come on. Personality-wise, he was NOTHING like he was in the comics. Where was his self-confidence and ego? Sure, he MIGHT have had those qualities, but the movie didn't spend enough time on him to show that. And he didn't even help the X-Men at the end. The fact that he puts others before himself should have put him in the battle, not just saving his dad.

And when it comes down to it, his personality is one of, if not his most important traits.



Because of her development from the first two movies. She goes from intimidatable Jean Grey from X1, to starting to lose her control of her powers in X2.



But she wasn't a mute in the first two. It would have been nice to hear her talking during the last part of the movie.



The Sentinel did it's job in the DR, but why the hell would it just stand there in the shadow and fog? All it was there for was to show off Wolverine under the guise of training.



It was cut for budget reasons.




And that's why Singer would've been better handling Angel than Ratner and his writers. Singer is character-driven.

Exactly. Worthy, don't debate with a guy who says Batman and Robin had better dialogue/puns than Batman Begins. It's simply not worth the stress or time my friend.

I think had Singer stayed we would've seen an excellent X-Men closer. I think the Sentinels should've been introduced after the events of X2. After having numerous car crashes, plane crashes, and humans dying general it should've been given that the Sentinels would've/should've appeared.

I'm not saying the ideas in X3 weren't good ideas. The bad ones far outweigh the good ones unfortunately. Penn, Ratner, and Kinberg don't have a good understand for great character driven stories and it shows with The Last Stand.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but I want Singer's (and I've been known to have a love/hate relationship for him around here.) version of X3. I do enjoy the X3 we got, but the Last Stand is easily the most flawed of the trilogy the more and more I watch it.

My only fear about Singer's X3 would be that Storm probably would have been dropped than not trying to be fixed at all, but perhaps that's better than yet another personality for her in X3.

 

[gambitfire]

Oh, he said it. More than once too. I know it has nothing to do with X3 in general, but it was necessary to show his credibility as a poster, since he thinks he's so much more intelligent than the rest of us.

He specifically stated "Batman and Robin had better dialogue, and the puns Freeze/Ivy used were better than Scarecrow and Ra's in Batman Begins."

His exact words. Of course, he'll deny it and call me a liar, but I definitely remember what he said which is why I don't really hold him credible in terms of great quality or understanding films that have great potential.

He said that? really?

 

[Neto Magnus]

now everyone here knows my opinion on this matter but i just don't want to get into it anymore. But I'm wondering if Singer's X3 is the new Donner's Superman II?

 

[X-Maniac]

But I'm wondering if Singer's X3 is the new Donner's Superman II?

In what sense? Especially since we don't actually have a completed Singer X3 to compare it with.

 

[X-Maniac]

Keep in mind that the original plan for Sentinels in X2 called for a massive Phoenix vs. Sentinels showdown at the end. Fox continued to cut the budget, until eventually ONE Sentinel would open the Cerebro door. Singer (rightly so) thought that was ******edly lame, and cut Sentinels entirely. Do I think we'd have gotten more than some headlights and a ****ty head in X3 had Singer done the story? Hell yes.

Sentinels as an idea is fine, but it's obvious there are budgetary problems with them. i don't know why as other movies have introduced robots - look at Sky Captain, Matrix's Sentinels... How did they afford it???

I suspect there was also some creative doubt over whether robots might look a bit too sci-fi in X2. Given that Bryan cut the Krypton sequence from SR, I can imagine he might have been worried about removing the humanity from the story.

The idea of a Sentinel in the DR was not a bad one. The execution of that idea did not work very well, in my view. A smaller (15ft max) and more visible robot opponent (Nimrod?) would have been better than that huge head and nothing else. They obviously intended a foot as well, but it never happened. Or they could have gone with some other opponent entirely in the DR. They were obviously trying to do this for the fans... so they deserve praise for that.. but the final sequence is not that satisfying. This seems like another occasion where something they tried to do for the fans is being spat back in their face, which is a shame.

If we ever see the DR again, I'd like a Savage Land sequence...

 

[gambitfire]

They should have a Hulk DR cameo.

 

[Neto Magnus]

In what sense? Especially since we don't actually have a completed Singer X3 to compare it with.

well there is the Singer X3 Treatment.

 

[TNC9852002]

Anyone else think that it's time to move on?

-TNC

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

I think the IDEA of Singer's X3 will become the Donner Superman II. But unless it happens VERY quickly, it's not going to happen at all. It's not one of those things where it can be released more than 20 years after the fact, because there's no footage. I'd love nothing more than for Singer to do Man of Steel, and then to do X-Men 3 afterward, maybe for a 2012 release. I think by that point most of the cast would be willing to show up; certainly Stewart and Romijn would, and more than likely Paquin, Janssen, and Marsden. Singer's name will get Jackman back, especially as a producer. Berry, maybe not, but I don't think Singer wants to do Storm anyway, and honestly, I'd rather have no Storm than the Storm we got. And that far down the line, it wouldn't hurt too much to recast Storm, either. Ultimately, though, a film probably won't work. This is where I think Singer should get his ass in gear and do his X3 as one-shot graphic novel for Ultimate X-Men, instead of the projected arc he's supposedly still doing.

EDIT: *hugs TNC*

 

[gambitfire]

Anyone else think that it's time to move on?

-TNC

From what?

I'm a college student at work in his school library and have nothing else to do.

So i'm here doing some sketches, chating, and browsing the hype.

No harm done.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Sketches? Never knew you draw Gambitfire, can I take a peek?

 

[Goddessreicho]

You know Gambitfire, you could be doing something else cool , like giving me my review.

 

[X-Maniac]

I think the IDEA of Singer's X3 will become the Donner Superman II. But unless it happens VERY quickly, it's not going to happen at all. It's not one of those things where it can be released more than 20 years after the fact, because there's no footage. I'd love nothing more than for Singer to do Man of Steel, and then to do X-Men 3 afterward, maybe for a 2012 release. I think by that point most of the cast would be willing to show up; certainly Stewart and Romijn would, and more than likely Paquin, Janssen, and Marsden. Singer's name will get Jackman back, especially as a producer. Berry, maybe not, but I don't think Singer wants to do Storm anyway, and honestly, I'd rather have no Storm than the Storm we got. And that far down the line, it wouldn't hurt too much to recast Storm, either. Ultimately, though, a film probably won't work. This is where I think Singer should get his ass in gear and do his X3 as one-shot graphic novel for Ultimate X-Men, instead of the projected arc he's supposedly still doing.

EDIT: *hugs TNC*

Singer could still come back and do his Genosha/Sentinels/Hellfire story, it could still follow on from the existing X3 and be adjusted where necessary to follow on seamlessly.

After all, X3 did give us Trask and enough mutant destruction to mean that drastic measures might well be put into place.

 

[La_She-Beast]

^^No, first the sketches

 

[gambitfire]

Sketches? Never knew you draw Gambitfire, can I take a peek?

Well i don't have much posted on Deviant art, and it's fanfic stuff i won't post my original stuff yet, but here is the link- http://gambitfire45.deviantart.com/

Above Devious Information it says scarps click on the link next to it.

You know Gambitfire, you could be doing something else cool , like giving me my review.

ill get it too it this weekend, and i'll make it up to you

 

[La_She-Beast]

Those are careful lines, nice

 

[gambitfire]

Careful?

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Singer could still come back and do his Genosha/Sentinels/Hellfire story, it could still follow on from the existing X3 and be adjusted where necessary to follow on seamlessly.

After all, X3 did give us Trask and enough mutant destruction to mean that drastic measures might well be put into place.

He could. But I want to see his take on the Phoenix story, quite frankly. I want to see what was supposed to happen, as opposed to what we got. In the end, X3 is visually consistent, and occasionally tonally consistent, with X2 and X-Men. But so much of the plot is so incongruous...I don't know. It just really doesn't feel like what I thought would happen. It's a logical extension of events, sure, but so much of it feels like it's off in its own world. I don't really know; all I DO know is that I want to Singer's version, if only out of curiosity.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Woulda

Coulda

Shoulda

and will...

 

[X-Maniac]

He could. But I want to see his take on the Phoenix story, quite frankly. I want to see what was supposed to happen, as opposed to what we got. In the end, X3 is visually consistent, and occasionally tonally consistent, with X2 and X-Men. But so much of the plot is so incongruous...I don't know. It just really doesn't feel like what I thought would happen. It's a logical extension of events, sure, but so much of it feels like it's off in its own world. I don't really know; all I DO know is that I want to Singer's version, if only out of curiosity.

There are a few things to bear in mind though. Singer himself says he has only a rough treatment on his computer, nothing more. Who's to say how that would have developed, and how it would have been altered by the time it became celluloid.

Also, Famke herself - who played the character for the two prior movies, as you know of course - insisted on the split personality and said somewhere (wish i could find the source again) that it was Bryan who had told her the Phoenix was a second persona within her.

Bryan's X3 would have been gentler, more considered, less energetic, more serious, with far fewer cameos. I don't think he has the mentality for doing all-out wars, he prefers moody tensions and bursts of activity.

Of course, the very act of Bryan leaving and hiring Marsden had an impact on X3. Singer surely knew that Cyclops should be part of the Phoenix story that would automatically be coming next (whoever was writing/directing) and Marsden should have known that by leaving he was depriving Cyclops of a larger role in the Phoenix Saga. Singer and Marsden must share some blame for, in effect, killing off the Cyclops character.