Bryan Singer's X-Men 3

[Dan33977]

now edit your post before you get flamed

Um, no...

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Anyway, how is everyone tonight?

I'm doing absolutely wonderful. I went to the theater today to see Stranger Than Fiction and Casino Royale. First time seeing Stranger than Fiction and third time seeing Casino Royale.

Both are excellent films by the way.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

(Casino Royale) are excellent films by the way.

For once I agree with you...

 

[psyonic]

It was mentioned that Sigourney Weaver was gonna be asked to play Emma Frost in Singer's version of X3. I would have loved to see that happen. *sigh*

 

[Spade]

I personally would have loved to see how Phoenix was fleshed out. Auras aside, I think Singer would have done her the justice she needed to make her progression from Phoenix to Dark Phoenix identifiable. I would have also been intrigued to see how Frost's character factored into it if at all. When Penn and Ratner were still wondering over their own film as to what stage Phoenix was in- normal, Dark or Jean- in the director's commentary it gave off the heavy impression that the people behind the scenes knew little to nothing about the script they put into production. What's worse is that Penn is the one who wrote it. I find that very sad on some level.

Oh well. Now TIH gets Penn's mighty screenplay rapin- I mean, workmanship.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I agree. Much though I did like X3 and can find a lot of good things in it, I agree. X1 and X2 had better openings, more edgy, they grabbed you straight away. X3's opening was nice, worked within the movie (as Xavier/Magneto return there later) but was a bit too gentle for me (though I loved how the gentler intro pieces then went into the Danger Room explosion).

This is perhaps Singer's style in providing solo moments for the characters. Storm lashing out at Toad, Deathstrike making mincemeat of Wolverine, Storm's tornado sequence, Magneto's prison break. It's a good way of giving them their moments within what is not an action-oriented movie. It's also more Singer's style because he doesn't often create teamwork battles, whereas X3 is more about multiple fighting and teamwork. However, what Singer did for the intro of SR is as gentle as X3's intro (a character-driven piece) and I didn't like SR's intro at all; it was most unlike Bryan not to provide something stronger than an old widow croaking on her deathbed and Lex hurling his wig at some squawking kid. Oh if we'd had that Krypton sequence - i could almost weep that it's not in the movie...

This was one of the biggest surprise for me watching SR. Don't get me wrong, when he did have power usage, the action still 'sung' of Singer's style. It was always very smooth and appropriate, he understands that a character and their powers are one. But Why did I have to wait 25 minutes for the big stylized character entrance?? I guess with Superman being in space it made it difficult to give him the big opener right away, but I think it really took away from the movie to have the audience sitting there waiting for Supes to return for 30 minutes.

 

[Mike059jig]

It took almost one hour to see King Kong...in peter Jackson film...but boy was it worth the wait..anticipation/Suspense is always great.....anyway....I thought the first half of SR was excellent up until the plane sequence then it went up and down until the end......
Byran singers X3, we will never know, but it wouldn't cause as much controversy as Ratner's X3

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I thought it was a good beginning as well... but I already had expectations on how the beginning would look and feel, becuase of Bryan directing style. When it didn't go that way, I was a little surprised. But more importantly, I fault the whole "up and down" thing on the way the beginning went. With all that story layed out and then the 'Super' entrance (plane sequence) the movie pacing really needed to maintain that steam, but it didn't. That's why it felt like it kept flopping up and down.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I love Nightcrawler's introduction, but I don't even think it's the best action sequence in the movie, let alone the trilogy.

And, Nightcrawler's sequence is just one action sequence in X2, one of a very few in the movie. Singer didn't really have action in his movies, and that is why X-Men: The Last Stand had better action. Save for a couple in X2 (Nightcrawler's White House attack, and Magneto's prison break), I think the power usage is much better in X-Men: The Last Stand than in either of Singer's X-Men movies.

 

[BMM]

I love Nightcrawler's introduction, but I don't even think it's the best action sequence in the movie, let alone the trilogy.

And, Nightcrawler's sequence is just one action sequence in X2, one of a very few in the movie. Singer didn't really have action in his movies, and that is why X-Men: The Last Stand had better action. Save for a couple in X2 (Nightcrawler's White House attack, and Magneto's prison break), I think the power usage is much better in X-Men: The Last Stand than in either of Singer's X-Men movies.

I don't. To me, Colossus' power usage in X2 is 10x more memorable than in The Last Stand. Likewise for Cyclops and Rogue. In the Last Stand, Cyclops blasts water . . . 'nuff said. Rogue is briefly shown absorbing Colossus' power for a split second, but she's so petrified she doesn't even know what's going on. I like her taking off her gloves and absorbing/wielding Pyro's power better. Speaking of Pyro, he burns cars again. I would have liked to have seen more creative manipulation as opposed to just blowing stuff up. The Iceman/Pyro showdown was cool, although watching TV between the months of March and May almost ruined it for me, as most of it was spoiled by the onslaught of television adverts. That being said, I'll give The Last Stand Iceman.

I still find Storm's climatic moment in X-Men (wind, lightning, and electricity surging from her body and all around her) and the dogfight sequence in X2 to be better than anything she does in The Last Stand. At least there was some variability in her powers in the first two films, whereas in the latest installment, it's the same old thing. She twirls with the best of them though. Professor X shows more power variability in the first two films whether it be through Cerebro or out in public, and I think it's cooler. Ditto for Mystique. The same goes for Nightcrawler and some of the students like Siryn. Magneto's bridge sequence is fun even if believed unnecessary. I'll have to wait a few years to see how it holds up against his escape sequence in X2 though. I still don't find anything in The Last Stand to be as clever as his turning the guns on the police in X-Men or detonating the soldiers’ grenades in X2.

Jean Grey easily provides the coolest sequences in The Last Stand but they lose serious points after waiting for three years and seeing no recognizable signs of a Phoenix display. That was a major let down for me, but the Jean/Xavier sequence was great (it made the movie worth my time . . . without it, I don't know where I would rate The Last Stand). Kitty's cameo in X2 is great, but The Last Stand takes this one. Then there's Wolverine . . . He just seems cooler to me in the first two movies. A lot of his scenes just felt like they had been done before like when he tracks down Jean but is levitated and overcome by Magneto (incredibly similar to his setup with Rogue in X-Men six years ago).

Callisto, Juggernaut, and Quills don't do it for me. I've seen the beat 'em up bad guys before in X-Men and X2. I can’t really say much for Angel . . . he flies to get around . . . but he doesn't really do much. Beast punches and his wirework leaves something to be desired. With the money The Last Stand had, I think it could have been much more creative. I would have liked if it had paid more attention to the characters already present rather than spending money on things like unnecessary CGI Toad look-a-likes.

 

[storm-x-fan]

I know that Singer wanted to extrapolate the Dark Phoenix Saga as the main plot of X3. He also wanted to include Emma Frost, which might've meant that the Hellfire Club would've provided a role. I don't think the cure would have played a part. It would've been Jean's resurrection, having amnesia, and then her slow turn as the Dark Phoenix.

I'm sure Nightcrawler would have returned, and we'd probably at least see either Gambit or Beast (or maybe Angel).

well then x3 wud have been much better.

 

[Rac]

I cannot believe people are still arguing about this. It's pathetic.

I'm still arguing about Mad Max 3 and it came 21 years ago. Is that pathetic?

 

[Spade]

I don't. To me, Colossus' power usage in X2 is 10x more memorable than in The Last Stand. Likewise for Cyclops and Rogue. In the Last Stand, Cyclops blasts water . . . 'nuff said. Rogue is briefly shown absorbing Colossus' power for a split second, but she's so petrified she doesn't even know what's going on. I like her taking off her gloves and absorbing/wielding Pyro's power better. Speaking of Pyro, he burns cars again. I would have liked to have seen more creative manipulation as opposed to just blowing stuff up. The Iceman/Pyro showdown was cool, although watching TV between the months of March and May almost ruined it for me, as most of it was spoiled by the onslaught of television adverts. That being said, I'll give The Last Stand Iceman.

I still find Storm's climatic moment in X-Men (wind, lightning, and electricity surging from her body and all around her) and the dogfight sequence in X2 to be better than anything she does in The Last Stand. At least there was some variability in her powers in the first two films, whereas in the latest installment, it's the same old thing. She twirls with the best of them though. Professor X shows more power variability in the first two films whether it be through Cerebro or out in public, and I think it's cooler. Ditto for Mystique. The same goes for Nightcrawler and some of the students like Siryn. Magneto's bridge sequence is fun even if believed unnecessary. I'll have to wait a few years to see how it holds up against his escape sequence in X2 though. I still don't find anything in The Last Stand to be as clever as his turning the guns on the police in X-Men or detonating the soldiers’ grenades in X2.

Jean Grey easily provides the coolest sequences in The Last Stand but they lose serious points after waiting for three years and seeing no recognizable signs of a Phoenix display. That was a major let down for me, but the Jean/Xavier sequence was great (it made the movie worth my time . . . without it, I don't know where I would rate The Last Stand). Kitty's cameo in X2 is great, but The Last Stand takes this one. Then there's Wolverine . . . He just seems cooler to me in the first two movies. A lot of his scenes just felt like they had been done before like when he tracks down Jean but is levitated and overcome by Magneto (incredibly similar to his setup with Rogue in X-Men six years ago).

Callisto, Juggernaut, and Quills don't do it for me. I've seen the beat 'em up bad guys before in X-Men and X2. I can’t really say much for Angel . . . he flies to get around . . . but he doesn't really do much. Beast punches and his wirework leaves something to be desired. With the money The Last Stand had, I think it could have been much more creative. I would have liked if it had paid more attention to the characters already present rather than spending money on things like unnecessary CGI Toad look-a-likes.

I agree with your sentiments 100%. I've always found it ironic that (for all the butchery of Phoenix that occured) Penn's original screenplay/ storyboards far surpasses the one 20th Century Fox gave us. It's even moreso in hindsight when you think about it- Fox actually cut down the scale of action when action is pretty much about 50% of this film. Much of X3's action is like X2 on a somewhat noticable uptake in scale, which causes some repetition even in scenes devoid of action. I personally don't like a tremendous amount of the film. I find myself skipping cringe-inducing lines when I re-watch it (and there are many). To be honest, about the only parts that were interesting were the ones you mentioned- the Grey house battle and the bridge sequence. Even from an action film POV the movie is sporadic in choreography and SFX.

 

[My Red Sight]

I like to think that Singer would have made a space-type scene. I don't mean consuming planets, or the sh'ar. Something like he did in SR, with him looking on the earth from space. It would be a nice nod to the fans, having Jean in space, looking troubled and struggling within. Singer could've pulled it off.

It's probably completely rediculous. Oh well. =D

 

[gambitfire]

I cannot believe people are still arguing about this. It's pathetic.

I'm still arguing about Mad Max 3 and it came 21 years ago. Is that pathetic?

Well if the topic is brought up, you have an opinion and you have every right to say it. You're not expected to act like it didn't happen.

I mean these boards are here to discuss this. It's pathetic if everywhere you go that's all you talk about. But there's a time and place for everything and this is the place, we choose the time.

So i'ts not pathetic to talk about it here, It's pathetic to not understand that.

 

[kg576094]

A lot of people are confused with Phoenix's relationship with the brotherhood/Magneto. Magneto did not attempt to "recruit" Jean into his army. He tried to persuade her to fight alongside him. There is a difference. She is the ultimate trump card but Magneto cannot play the card, Phoenix has to play it. Phoenix will choose what it does, plain and simple. Magneto put a lot of effort into gaining Phoenix's "support" not so he could use her against the humans but so that she would use herself against the humans. Magneto never commands Phoenix throughout the movie. Also, when he said "In chess the pawns go first" he also explained why he didn't pressure even pressure phoenix to engage, she was the ultimate force on that battlefield, let her make her move when she feels it necessary. Ordering the Phoenix around is a good way to get yourself vaporized.

Next, people need to stop acting like the Phoenix and Jean are two different entities. They are the same. I sort of think of Jean as the physical incarnation of the (and with full access to) phoenx force in the human body of a level 5 mutant. Jean Grey, Phoenix Force, and Phoenix imo have a "Holy Trinity" relationship within the MU.

This is even lamer than Nell or X's interpretation

WTF the Phoenix didn't even join Magneto's Brotherhood of Mutants and all that Magneto want with the Phoenix was to dupe her into battlefield, plant her at a spot and wait for someone to step on her, which the human eventually did with disastrous result.

So wat difference does it make the Phoenix from a walking Dynamite (oh, a pretty big atomic sized one too based on the deleted scene)? Now how could the Phoenix be that dumb to be played into Magneto's hands and not see through his tricks?

Quite frankly I would have prefered Nell's emo-unstable caged monster a hundred more than this walking Dynamite explanation.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't. To me, Colossus' power usage in X2 is 10x more memorable than in The Last Stand. Likewise for Cyclops and Rogue. In the Last Stand, Cyclops blasts water . . . 'nuff said. Rogue is briefly shown absorbing Colossus' power for a split second, but she's so petrified she doesn't even know what's going on. I like her taking off her gloves and absorbing/wielding Pyro's power better. Speaking of Pyro, he burns cars again. I would have liked to have seen more creative manipulation as opposed to just blowing stuff up. The Iceman/Pyro showdown was cool, although watching TV between the months of March and May almost ruined it for me, as most of it was spoiled by the onslaught of television adverts. That being said, I'll give The Last Stand Iceman.

I still find Storm's climatic moment in X-Men (wind, lightning, and electricity surging from her body and all around her) and the dogfight sequence in X2 to be better than anything she does in The Last Stand. At least there was some variability in her powers in the first two films, whereas in the latest installment, it's the same old thing. She twirls with the best of them though. Professor X shows more power variability in the first two films whether it be through Cerebro or out in public, and I think it's cooler. Ditto for Mystique. The same goes for Nightcrawler and some of the students like Siryn. Magneto's bridge sequence is fun even if believed unnecessary. I'll have to wait a few years to see how it holds up against his escape sequence in X2 though. I still don't find anything in The Last Stand to be as clever as his turning the guns on the police in X-Men or detonating the soldiers’ grenades in X2.

Jean Grey easily provides the coolest sequences in The Last Stand but they lose serious points after waiting for three years and seeing no recognizable signs of a Phoenix display. That was a major let down for me, but the Jean/Xavier sequence was great (it made the movie worth my time . . . without it, I don't know where I would rate The Last Stand). Kitty's cameo in X2 is great, but The Last Stand takes this one. Then there's Wolverine . . . He just seems cooler to me in the first two movies. A lot of his scenes just felt like they had been done before like when he tracks down Jean but is levitated and overcome by Magneto (incredibly similar to his setup with Rogue in X-Men six years ago).

Callisto, Juggernaut, and Quills don't do it for me. I've seen the beat 'em up bad guys before in X-Men and X2. I can’t really say much for Angel . . . he flies to get around . . . but he doesn't really do much. Beast punches and his wirework leaves something to be desired. With the money The Last Stand had, I think it could have been much more creative. I would have liked if it had paid more attention to the characters already present rather than spending money on things like unnecessary CGI Toad look-a-likes.

I disagree with much of what you said.

While I will give you that Colossus' moment in X2 was cooler than his moments in X-Men: The Last Stand, and Cyclops and Rogue had better "power moments" in the previous movies, I think that's about it.

Pyro's X2 car flame bonanza is really just X2's version of Magneto's police car assault in X-Men. At least in X-Men: The Last Stand, Magneto and Pyro's car bomb assault was a team effort, in battle, against the X-Men. And in my opinion, was a lot more epic than either car destruction bonanza in either previous film.

Magneto's prison escape is the epitome of Bryan Singer's beauty with these films. Not only was it a nice piece of action, but there was brilliance and elegance to it that was missing in X-Men: The Last Stand.

If only Bryan Singer could produce more moments like that, the grenade pins, and re-arranging Cerebro.

Nightcrawler's sequence is brilliant as well, and another point to Singer's X2.

I refuse to complain about Beast's X-Men: The Last Stand wirework when the Lady Deathstrike vs. Wolverine battle is one of the lamest wirework / choreographed fights I've seen in a to-be-taken-seriously movie. The flips all the way up to the ceiling, and the pushes that send each other flying all the way across the room... it's just way too soft and Power Rangers for a movie that is otherwise much darker and more serious. The wirework is a lot more seamless in X-Men: The Last Stand.

You talk about Angel just flying to get around, in X2 Kitty just ran through some walls... :

At least X-Men: The Last Stand had the big badass Juggernaut crashing through some walls behind her.

And Angel's sequence breaking out of Worthington Labs is breathtaking... if only it weren't in every single piece of X3 marketing ever, it wouldn't be so played out.

Wolverine's wood and mansion fights are about equal, really. There's something special about the mansion sequence, because it was the first time we saw the berserker rage. His fight in the woods is really just more of the same. But I think it's just as good.

Magneto's bridge sequence is amazing. That sequence, and Jean's Alcatraz destruction are on par with Jean's flood parting power display in X2 in terms of epic.

I find Storm's X2 tornado thing to actually be quite a bit boring, and much prefer her owning of Quill & Arclight at Jean's house. Her tidal wave sequence, if left in, also would have topped the tornado sequence.

Ratner's final battle fights are also a lot grittier I find than Singer's fights. Both of Singer's X-Men films are brilliant, up until the point when Wolverine starts his fight with the bad guy, and then I start to get taken out of it a bit. It's when the movies begin to feel "soft", and "tame". I don't get that feeling with Ratner's action. Singer's action is only brilliant and elegant in certain spurts. And when it is, it's quite possibly more powerful than even Ratner's because there's an intelligence and elegance behind it. Not many scenes, PERIOD, in this trilogy or otherwise, top Magneto's prison break in X2. I love his scenes with the grenade pins, and the re-arranging of Cerebro. Nightcrawler's sequence is brilliant. Wolverine's mansion berserker rage is brilliant. And I quite like Storm pwning Toad (possibly my favorite sequence in X-Men). I find Storm's tornadoes, any of Wolverine's 1v1 battles (outside of getting owned by Sabretooth in Canada), and most of the other action to be "soft" and "tame".

I don't find any "soft" or "tame" action in X-Men: The Last Stand, outside of Wolverine's fight with limb-regrowing man, and the whole "grow those back" pun.

Much of it doesn't have the same elegance that Singer's best action pieces had, but it also doesn't feel "soft" to me. It feels much more in line with these characters, and this world. It's darker, it's grittier.

Singer was either extreme with action. Either brilliant, or tame.

Ratner was more consistant. Not so much brilliant, but exciting and epic. Not really tame, but lacking the elegance that Singer's best action sequences brought.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I love Nightcrawler's introduction, but I don't even think it's the best action sequence in the movie, let alone the trilogy.

And, Nightcrawler's sequence is just one action sequence in X2, one of a very few in the movie. Singer didn't really have action in his movies, and that is why X-Men: The Last Stand had better action. Save for a couple in X2 (Nightcrawler's White House attack, and Magneto's prison break), I think the power usage is much better in X-Men: The Last Stand than in either of Singer's X-Men movies.

From a comic stand point the lack of action sucks, from a movie DRAMA standpoint, Singer's use of action to stimulate the story almost comes off like true artistic genius.

Jean Grey easily provides the coolest sequences in The Last Stand but they lose serious points after waiting for three years and seeing no recognizable signs of a Phoenix display. That was a major let down for me, but the Jean/Xavier sequence was great (it made the movie worth my time . . . without it, I don't know where I would rate The Last Stand). Kitty's cameo in X2 is great, but The Last Stand takes this one. Then there's Wolverine . . . He just seems cooler to me in the first two movies. A lot of his scenes just felt like they had been done before like when he tracks down Jean but is levitated and overcome by Magneto (incredibly similar to his setup with Rogue in X-Men six years ago).

I agree with most of this. The fact that they tried to breathe a story into their adaptation of Phoenix was laudible but still sucks. However, it could've been so much more horrible had they not used Chuck/Magneto. That scene alone really stands out, but it saddens me because it reminds me of how much more brilliant the whole movie should be.

I refuse to complain about Beast's X-Men: The Last Stand wirework when the Lady Deathstrike vs. Wolverine battle is one of the lamest wirework / choreographed fights I've seen in a to-be-taken-seriously movie. The flips all the way up to the ceiling, and the pushes that send each other flying all the way across the room... it's just way too soft and Power Rangers for a movie that is otherwise much darker and more serious. The wirework is a lot more seamless in X-Men: The Last Stand.

Again, I can agree, Beast was fun to watch and I just WON'T complain harshly about wire work. Unless I can literally see the wires it's just not one of my pet peeves.

You talk about Angel just flying to get around, in X2 Kitty just ran through some walls... :

At least X-Men: The Last Stand had the big badass Juggernaut crashing through some walls behind her.

Woah... now you know that's just not a fair comparison. Angel was actually being used in the plot, he was way more than a 5 second cameo like kitty's X2. A better comparison would be X3 Angel to X2 nightcrawler, and I'm pretty sure we know to whom that would go. BMM's criticism of Angel's uselessness is fairly accurate. Introducing and using a character for your plot and then essentially forgetting about him is a....:

 

[Penguin]

I'd LOVE to see Bryan's X3

 

[Cosmic Mind]

me too, but is up to him to do it.....

 

[The Ones]

me too, but is up to him to do it.....

No, its up to Fox and if they want to put they're money to a good use. My vote is no