BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 6

[Matt]

MT sales are actually up since the reviews. So yeah. We'll see about the WOM when the movie's in its second week.

Of course sales are going to be good this weekend. Aside from being a high profile movie featuring two icons, opening to virtually no competition during a holiday weekend, you have this:

It could drop to %1 at this point, im still seeing it tonight at 8:45 and again sunday morning

People have already decided to see the movie. Those people are going to see it. The question is going to be weekend 2 and 3. That is when people who cannot afford to see every movie in theaters go. That is when people who are on the fence about seeing it go. That is when people who are just looking to do something on a Sunday afternoon go. Those are the people who are impacted by WOM. In the digital era, when the bad reviews are now trending on Twitter and Facebook...that is absolutely going to affect word of mouth (arguably more than anything).

Take Zootopia... I took my kids to see that movie and it has an amazing RT score. I didn't think it was very special. It was certainly not at Toy Story levels. But you see that 99% and think it must be the second coming. I wish sites would use film scores instead. The RT score is much less important to the film score it lists underneath the RT score but in much smaller font.

I took my daughter to see Zootopia. It was a cute, clever, and unique. We both loved it. But I loved it for what it is, a children's movie. Critics are kinder to children movies because they are not made for adults. They are made to appeal to children and therefore a critic must ask "is this appealing to those it is meant to appeal to?" Zack Snyder has talked a big game about making "adult" superhero movies. He has talked about how this is a mythological tragedy, Shakespearian in nature. He has set the expectations for this to be the second coming of The Dark Knight. Therefore, critics are evaluating it from that standpoint, a comic book movie that wants to be something more; a Chris Nolan type picture. It was never going to end well for a director who has the emotional depth of a brick to try to make something on Chris Nolan's level. My point is: When you try to do something on Christopher Nolan's level...expect to be held to the exact type of scrutiny of one of his films. And if you can't deliver...well...its gonna get trashed.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I think Cavill's a good actor. I think he's shown that, he certainly a presence and charisma, but they are really clipping his wings in these films. It's a colossal waste in my opinion.

Yeah, I think he's a good actor too. I feel like he WAS charming and charismatic in MOS, but they didn't utilize those qualities enough because the script required him to mostly brood and mope.

Part of me still hopes there's an outside shot that he could play Bond someday. I actually think he'd really shine in that role, provided the direction is good.

 

[KingKane88]

Why do some people find it so hard to believe that someone can like a film that has bad reviews. Or that a film with bad reviews could still actually be good, and that critical consensus doesn't align with audiences'?

Heck, "Mirrors" is one of mine and my wifes all time favs and that movie has a 14% on RT. I cannot tell you how many films i absolutely LOVED only later to go on RT and see the crappiest of crap rating.

Is what it is.

I do feel though that if BvS got into atleast the 60's, half these people on this board who are giving BvS such hell would not be as harsh on the film as they currently are.


This whole RT score thing has created a domino effect on these boards, it's sparking hate and anger in a lot of people who seen the movie who initially would not be picking it apart as bad as they are at the moment.

This is why i miss the 80's and the 90's so much, fans can go to a movie, and decide for themselves and discuss it among others in person without wildly ranting out behind a keyboard.

It's kind of like a prison riot, one persons anger spreads to others, and before you know it we have an all out hate brawl. Just sad, really.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Cavill was great in The Man From UNCLE and had loads of charisma. If his performance is flat in this that down to direction and or the material he has to work with.

Cavill: So what am i supposed to be feeling in this scene? Should I play it this way?

Snyder: Ah Henry, just stand there and look angry and it'll be totally awesome


I imagine that's how most of the on set discussion between the two must go

 

[GreenKToo]

ya know, i've went from being confident this was gonna make 1.2/1.3 billion, to just hoping it makes 900 mill now.

Folks can deny it all they want but the RT score will affect the BO.
I think if it would have received a mid 50's score we would have been in pretty good shape, but low 30's? they all can't be wrong.

If this is heading where I think it is, someone at WB is about to be out of a job. we will know in a couple of weeks by looking at the BO.

 

[harryoscop]

 

[Mjölnir]

Take Zootopia... I took my kids to see that movie and it has an amazing RT score. I didn't think it was very special. It was certainly not at Toy Story levels. But you see that 99% and think it must be the second coming. I wish sites would use film scores instead. The RT score is much less important to the film score it lists underneath the RT score but in much smaller font.

No, when you see that 99% score you should think that it's a movie that almost everyone can enjoy.

Compiling scores works worse though since people do not only use different scales, they also use the scales differently. For some getting a medium score (middle of the scale) can mean that it's pretty good, while other critics say that's a pretty bad movie.

If you want scores I think it's better to look at individual critics.

I think RT does it right to just let critics primarily say whether the movie was good or bad. It's a simple thing that everyone sees the same way. You still get the average score to complement the Tomato Meter, but I don't think that's a good primary focus.

 

[OzzMosiz]

I'm guessing the mod, Matt, doesn't want this film to be good by all the posts I've seen from him?

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

People have already decided to see the movie. Those people are going to see it. The question is going to be weekend 2 and 3. That is when people who cannot afford to see every movie in theaters go. That is when people who are on the fence about seeing it go. That is when people who are just looking to do something on a Sunday afternoon go. Those are the people who are impacted by WOM. In the digital era, when the bad reviews are now trending on Twitter and Facebook...

seems inevitable that the reviews become a story by today/tonight. and this all adds into what we were discussing yesterday, and how does warners handle this with justice league set to roll on april 11th. that's only two plus weeks away, and only after the third weekend of bvs. i'd have to think if they're going to make major changes to jl production, it would have to be based off the opening weekend box office, or what they'd prefer, the 2nd weekend, but wow, they are in such a tight spot here. i'm really more fascinated by how this all plays out than the movie. i mean, if they announce changes to justice league, they have to do it while bvs is still in its opening weeks and basically spill some bad p.r. onto their own product. it all seems no-win for them.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Yeah, I think he's a good actor too. I feel like he WAS charming and charismatic in MOS, but they didn't utilize those qualities enough because the script required him to mostly brood and mope.

Part of me still hopes there's an outside shot that he could play Bond someday. I actually think he'd really shine in that role, provided the direction is good.

Absolutely. Do you know what bugs me the most?

Watching press interviews and seeing his natural charm and that great smile he has. Two things he's practically never allowed to show off in the Superman suit. Especially that smile, it's the same great smile Reeve had, he could look at someone he's just rescued, smile and they'd feel a bit better.

But instead it's 90% brooding, I'm fed up with it, I liked Man of Steel, and I've defended it for years but I won't settle for it in yet another film.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Cavill: So what am i supposed to be feeling in this scene? Should I play it this way?

Snyder: Ah Henry, just stand there and look angry and it'll be totally awesome


I imagine that's how most of the on set discussion between the two must go

I remember reading that when they were filming Star Wars in the 1970s, George Lucas' only direction to his actors was, "BE MORE INTENSE!" I wonder if that's the type of director Snyder is too, lol.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Maybe Zack Snyder is the Adam Sandler of CBMs? Critics will hate him, but he will always have a fan base to support his work.

 

[Mjölnir]

I remember reading that when they were filming Star Wars in the 1970s, George Lucas' only direction to his actors was, "BE MORE INTENSE!" I wonder if that's the type of director Snyder is too, lol.

Yes, it was "faster, more intense!". I was reminded by that by that post myself. t:

 

[Supernova]

Of


People have already decided to see the movie. Those people are going to see it. The question is going to be weekend 2 and 3. That is when people who cannot afford to see every movie in theaters go. That is when people who are on the fence about seeing it go. That is when people who are just looking to do something on a Sunday afternoon go. Those are the people who are impacted by WOM. In the digital era, when the bad reviews are now trending on Twitter and Facebook...that is absolutely going to affect word of mouth (arguably more than anything).

I agree completly, I think WB is hoping good wom carries to weekend 2 and beyond until civil war. Between now and civil there isnt alot coming out so in theory this movie could make a decent amount. If it bombs which I hope doesnt happen Then no doubt someone is getting fired by the end of April, someone in writing or directing.

 

[Tony Gunk]

You know what there's a LOT of films I like that are horribly rated on RT, however, they're low budget films.

I struggle to think of a big money Blockbuster that I like, that has a horrible score on RT. Take from that what you will

 

[Rowsdower!]

Absolutely. Do you know what bugs me the most?

Watching press interviews and seeing his natural charm and that great smile he has. Two things he's practically never allowed to show off in the Superman suit. Especially that smile, it's the same great smile Reeve had, he could look at someone he's just rescued, smile and they'd feel a bit better.

But instead it's 90% brooding, I'm fed up with it, I liked Man of Steel, and I've defended it for years but I won't settle for it in yet another film.

Yeah, at least in MOS, it makes sense that he was brooding because he was trying to find his place in the world and filled with self-doubt. I'm sure that now, publicly as Superman, he would still be troubled for other reasons, but I do hope that they also show that Superman really likes doing what he does because he's saving lives and making the world a better place.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I think I'm more disturbed by Snyder's comments about disguising a wolf (Watchmen ideas) in sheep's clothing (BvS iconic characters). Watchmen is great, but it's a deconstruction of the genre. JLA or World's Finest should be a celebration of it. Very strange to shoehorn Watchmen ideas into this.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/21/zack-snyder-on-how-batman-v-superman-is-like-watchmen/

It's just more proof that he didn't, and doesn't, understand the material he's given. Comparing Batman & Superman to the character's and themes of Watchmen completely misses the point. On both accounts.

 

[Poni_Boy]

that was a quick turn about. how did you go from being the guy yesterday everyone was defending as 'but he liked the movie,' to now scathing it with some hot meme lingo.

Three things:

A. Seeing it in a GA atmosphere and their response (i.e. kids getting upset, no "normal" adults caring)

B. Catching all the disjointed plot points and story beats I missed earlier or seeing the ones I breezed past before more glaringly obvious ([BLACKOUT]Convenient Lois who always shows up when we need her, Superman can hear all the way to Africa but can't hear his mom getting kidnapped. The "peach tea" thing.[/BLACKOUT])

C. Scrutinizing the dialogue and editing more ([BLACKOUT]the entire Knightmare and Flash scenes were totally pointless as they have NO effect on the story. The JLA character file intros should have been an after credits thing it halted all momentum.[/BLACKOUT])

Overall I would say BvS is the saddest, most nihilistic superhero movie DC could possibly make. It'll be a movie that people want to quickly forget after leaving the theater.

 

[sf2]

Heck, "Mirrors" is one of mine and my wifes all time favs and that movie has a 14% on RT. I cannot tell you how many films i absolutely LOVED only later to go on RT and see the crappiest of crap rating.

Is what it is.

I do feel though that if BvS got into atleast the 60's, half these people on this board who are giving BvS such hell would not be as harsh on the film as they currently are.


This whole RT score thing has created a domino effect on these boards, it's sparking hate and anger in a lot of people who seen the movie who initially would not be picking it apart as bad as they are at the moment.

This is why i miss the 80's and the 90's so much, fans can go to a movie, and decide for themselves and discuss it among others in person without wildly ranting out behind a keyboard.

It's kind of like a prison riot, one persons anger spreads to others, and before you know it we have an all out hate brawl. Just sad, really.

U r right. We r all sheep's in this cyber world... sadly

 

[Matt]

seems inevitable that the reviews become a story by today/tonight. and this all adds into what we were discussing yesterday, and how does warners handle this with justice league set to roll on april 11th. that's only two plus weeks away, and only after the third weekend of bvs. i'd have to think if they're going to make major changes to jl production, it would have to be based off the opening weekend box office, or what they'd prefer, the 2nd weekend, but wow, they are in such a tight spot here. i'm really more fascinated by how this all plays out than the movie. i mean, if they announce changes to justice league, they have to do it while bvs is still in its opening weeks and basically spill some bad p.r. onto their own product. it all seems no-win for them.

The bad PR won't hurt JL. Like I said yesterday, Marvel changed directors midway through Antman and no one cared (or knew) outside of internet forums.

I think people are foolish to think that Warners does not have a fallback plan. Miller was brought in as a consultant, right around the time that we heard all of the reports that Warners execs were panicking over their test screening of BvS. Warners has hedged their bets and a reshuffle could probably happen with minimal delay.

That said, they are going to be watching the second weekend very carefully...because that will give the biggest gauge of how the public is reacting to this movie. And if it is negatively, you can bet your ass they will take the egg on their face that comes with delaying JL to reshuffle the cards a bit, rather than gambling 300-500 million dollars with the hope that the third time will be Snyder's charm.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

For people who say that bad reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are meaningless:

The Tomato Meter for BvS (particularly its unfavorable nature) is currently trending on Twitter and Facebook.

Explain to me again how this doesn't affect word of mouth.

Of course it has effect but how much is questionable... Minimal or a lot, we'll see.

This much hype & advertisement should reach 1 billion dollar. If it makes less, sure it's because of bad mouth.

Of course terrorism in europe might have an effect too. Some people are even afraid to go outside.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Ah yes. [BLACKOUT]When he killed that guy. Gotta love s movie where Bats and Supes just kill **** all the time. So cool. Much hero. [/BLACKOUT]

Hearing this

Spoiler

Snyder doesn't understand Batman or Superman.

[YT]aKm5otkR2mc[/YT]

[YT]UIux476XgmA[/YT]

[YT]GTmfnK6XDiA[/YT]

 

[Rowsdower!]

You know what there's a LOT of films I like that are horribly rated on RT, however, they're low budget films.

I struggle to think of a big money Blockbuster that I like, that has a horrible score on RT. Take from that what you will

Transformers films. And the Star Wars prequels should all be at about 8% if there was justice in this world. (Somehow AOTC is fresh...WTF?!!)

But those are outliers, I think.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I'm guessing the mod, Matt, doesn't want this film to be good by all the posts I've seen from him?

You're guessing wrong. What could anyone possibly gain from a superhero movie that isn't good? Are they shareholders of a rival studio?

 

[Tony Gunk]

Yeah, at least in MOS, it makes sense that he was brooding because he was trying to find his place in the world and filled with self-doubt. I'm sure that now, publicly as Superman, he would still be troubled for other reasons, but I do hope that they also show that Superman really likes doing what he does because he's saving lives and making the world a better place.

EXACTLY! Man of Steel was setting up Superman, the way he talks with Swanwick at the end is TOTAL Superman to me, that's what I wanted to see more of.

You know something, Cavill is an intelligent guy, and I've noticed in all his press interviews he's saying "We're still building towards the Superman everyone knows and loves". I think that's damage control from him, he knows fine well a lot of fans are going to be disappointed that we're still stuck with brooding Superman and we're still not getting hopeful Superman.