BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 7

[jmc]

Like I said in another thread, DC fans could/should LOVE this movie. For its imagery and world building and what have you. But they are so wrapped up in the visual comic booky smorgasbord playing out they are subconsciously using their catalog of back knowledge to fill in major, important plot points and character arcs. And then acting like it was all in the movie. Love it all you want. But understand why you love it.

Yeah, and that's problematic, because there's not enough of those fans to market a movie to.

 

[schereZada]

Just got back from the movie. I posted a reivew in the proper thread but to summarize: not good. It's certainly not Green Lantern/FFINO bad but I would dare say it's a notch or two below ASM 2. At times it can be fun, but it's still a huge mess.
Also, the DCEU drinking game should either be "take a shot every time there's a heavy-handed reference to how tough Lois Lane is" or "take a shot every time Lois Lane magically appears where she needs to be".

That's what I imagined. I'll be good as long as it's not full of those stupid forced jokes everywhere as many of the latest superhero movies. The thing that makes me appreciate DC movies over Marvel is that they often take their characters and stories seriously. But sure, Snyder is more visuals than anything else... He's always been that way.

 

[MrsKent26]

Yeah, and that's problematic, because there's not enough of those fans to market a movie to.

Even more importantly, there's no need to market a film to those fans specifically. Many of them would probably like a straightforward, well-written and executed GA-type movie just as much (not saying BvS is or isn't that, just a general comment).

 

[DA_Champion]

Surely it's the writer fault though? Everyone keeps telling me it's not Snyder who's to blame for all the problems in his movies.

I've said this many times, maybe not to the extent you're implying but I did. I was mistaken. There are a lot of mistakes in BvS, and a lot of them are consistent with the criticisms people have made of Snyder.

For example, the death of the Kents is over-stylized, it's done in slow motion as well both of which are distracting. Further, as someone else pointed out, he made the Kents into badasses by having them fight back against the killer, rather than showcasing their peaceful side. So the movie starts with a short that highlights most of the criticisms that people have made about Snyder.

You've also specifically said that Snyder is a director who likes to go right to the good part without doing the buildup first. This movie is Dark Knight Returns and Death of Superman rolled into one, two climactic stories that were merged with zero buildup whatsoever.

In short, BvS is consistent with everything people have said about Snyder as a director. I don't think he has it in him to be a great director anymore, there are a lot of people out there with great talent who don't get opportunities, they should have a head start. Snyder might work as a concept artist or as a cinematographer.

 

[jmc]

Even more importantly, there's no need to market a film to those fans specifically. Many of them would probably like a straightforward, well-written and executed GA-type movie just as much.

Exactly, if you try to try and structure a film like a comic all you're going to appeal to are comic fans, and even then you're not going to appeal to all of them. Foolish. It's a goddamn movie, treat it as such.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Exactly, if you try to try and structure a film like a comic all you're going to appeal to are comic fans, and even then you're not going to appeal to all of them. Foolish. It's a goddamn movie, treated it as such.

The bolded is all I wanted and all I could have asked for. Instead I left thinking "cool bits of fan service, awesome Bruce/Batman.....****** movie".

 

[Stark Bauer]

How tragic is it that Daredevil vs Punisher handled the Superman vs Batman conflict better than a Superman v Batman movie

Well you are comparing the writers who worked on the TV series Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Angel, and Sons of Anarchy to a script that was originally written by Goyer and then re-written by Terrio. I wouldn't call it tragic. It's merely a sign of the times. This is the Golden Age of Television. The quality of storytelling and character development is miles away from cinema. Plus, Marvel has an eye for talent, and how to USE said talent and where they would fit best.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I've said this many times, maybe not to the extent you're implying but I did. I was mistaken. There are a lot of mistakes in BvS, and a lot of them are consistent with the criticisms people have made of Snyder.

For example, the death of the Waynes is over-stylized, it's done in slow motion as well both of which are distracting. Further, as someone else pointed out, he made the Kents into badasses by having them fight back against the killer, rather than showcasing their peaceful side. So the movie starts with a short that highlights most of the criticisms that people have made about Snyder.

You mean when Thomas Wayne causes the death of his wife and leaves his son an orphan because he went all Comedian on the mugger? Yeah that scene was awful

 

[Sho Nuff]

You mean when Thomas Wayne causes the death of his wife and leaves his son an orphan because he went all Comedian on the mugger? Yeah that scene was awful

I was looking for the smiley face button when the camera panned down.

 

[Flint Marko]

Like I said in another thread, DC fans could/should LOVE this movie. For its imagery and world building and what have you. But they are so wrapped up in the visual comic booky smorgasbord playing out they are subconsciously using their catalog of back knowledge to fill in major, important plot points and character arcs. And then acting like it was all in the movie. Love it all you want. But understand why you love it.

Well said. I hope there will be a good amount of fans who admit to liking it because it tickled them in all the right fanboy places.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I was looking for the smiley face button when the camera panned down.

I **** you not I totally expected him to be wearing one on his lapel after he hit the ground. I guarantee you Snyder thought of it.

 

[Hordakfan]

This movie felt like the film version of what the 90s comic era is known for. Trying to desperately to be like The Dark Knight Returns/Year One/The Dark Knight Trilogy, but not understanding why those worked and just falling into oppressively dark and bleakness in an attempt to look mature and adult while just coming off as childish.

Do you think DC/WB is stuck in the 90s while Marvel is going for the 60s 70s and 80s silver bronze and iron ages while DC is going for the 90's dark age of comics right?

Do you think WB learned the wrong lessons from Watchmen the movie, Dark Knight and V For Vendetta?

 

[Adder]

The audience score dropped to 75%. How low do you guys expect it to go?

 

[DA_Champion]

I am looking forward to RedLetterMedia's analysis of this film.

They did such an incredible job discussing Terminator Genysis.

 

[Snow Queen]

Do you think DC/WB is stuck in the 90s while Marvel is going for the 60s 70s and 80s silver bronze and iron ages while DC is going for the 90's dark age of comics right?

Do you think WB learned the wrong lessons from Watchmen the movie, Dark Knight and V For Vendetta?

Seems like an accurate comparison.

Completely, particularly The Dark Knight Trilogy. They see the tone and seriousness often praised but don't understand why and try to replicate it without any of the maturity.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The audience score dropped to 75%. How low do you guys expect it to go?

60s. Easily. Possibly high 50s. It's tough to guess because it started at 99

 

[DarthSkywalker]

60s. Easily. Possibly high 50s. It's tough to guess because it started at 99

A lot of people were using that number early on to bolster there case. Wonder if they still will.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Seems like an accurate comparison.

Completely, particularly The Dark Knight Trilogy. They see the tone and seriousness often praised but don't understand why and try to replicate it without any of the maturity.

Badman v. Sadman: Dawn of Dourness

 

[DA_Champion]

A lot of people were using that number early on to bolster there case. Wonder if they still will.

Never trust an early user score for movies.

 

[Kane52630]

A lot of people were using that number early on to bolster there case. Wonder if they still will.

"At least it has a better rating than Leprechaun 4: In Space!!1"

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Never trust an early user score for movies.

Oh I know. But again, using stuff like this to defend the movie is ridiculous. Some people were actually using the IMDB score.

 

[Motown Marvel]

The audience score dropped to 75%. How low do you guys expect it to go?

The problem is, the film had over 100,000 fan ratings before it even opened in theaters. Clearly, that's over a 100,000 (likely positive) fan ratings from people who never even saw the movie and were just hoping it'd be good. So, yer average rating is already horribly skewed. Imagine if they didn't allow those fan ratings until opening day.

 

[titansupes]

You mean when Thomas Wayne causes the death of his wife and leaves his son an orphan because he went all Comedian on the mugger? Yeah that scene was awful

Thank god I'm not the only one that noticed that. Thomas Wayne-- billionare-- took a swing at a mugger rather than be calm and give him his wallet... Jesus.

 

[jmc]

The audience score dropped to 75%. How low do you guys expect it to go?

I have no doubt a large part of the original scores were inflated by fans on purpose, many of whom probably hadn't seen the film. The the reality is starting to hit with that score getting lower and lower. I think it was around 85-86% 24 hours ago.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

"At least it has a better rating than Leprechaun 4: In Space!!1"

Leprechaun in Space, has a giant version of Warwick Davis attacking people as it's finale.

It's easily the better film.