BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 9

[Raiden]

The movie simply has some truly idiotic plot points that are insulting to the GA . I like some parts of the movie but the reason of why superman and batman fight and the reason of why they become ....friends is stupid beyond belief and this lex Luthor is one of the most annoying and incomprehensible characters ever put on film .

I think as the euphoria from watching BVS starts to die off, more people will be able to question the way Snyder handles the movie and the fact that many of its plots are absurd.

 

[docdoc]

Well....At least it's not the worst received superhero film ever. Fan4stic is sitting at 9%.

But "good job" for making it the worst received Batman/Superman movie ever, Synder. Good thing Affleck is directing his solo Batman, so this won't matter soon.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm not sure you truly understand the amount of people who grew up watching the old Superman movies and are attached to them. I've had people telling me that to them there's only one Superman. And i'm talking about people who don't read comics.

The people who are affected by those expectations are also the loudest. They're the ones who will shape a movie's perceptions online, because they're the ones who vote and comment the most. You can find these expectations in critics too. And if critics give a movie an horrible score, whose to say that it won't affect its critical and/or financial success?

It's undeniable that there was always a huge level of controversy surrounding this movie. The type of controversy you don't see in other movies. Even the casting was controversial and got people talking. How many people love Bale and his role as Batman? A lot! How many people hate Ben Affleck? Probably a lot more. Most people weren't too happy about Bale being replaced by Affleck. That's very clear just by talking to random people about the movie. I've lost count on the amount of times someone looked funny at me after i said Affleck was the new Batman. Even my mother, who doesn't give much of a damn about these movies. "Affleck? What happened to the other guy i liked a lot?"

You might think that all these things don't matter and people will always fairly judge a movie, without preconceptions, but i just don't agree with you. It's fair to say this movie has problems, because some of them are very obvious. That still doesn't fully explain the amount of hate the movie has been getting from some people.

If preconceptions really have hurt the DCEU thus far, Snyder hasn't afforded us the opportunity to see it demonstrated. He's cranked out two incredibly subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is based on. I'm absolutely sick of this argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to distract from the real issues.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

What good points? I looked through her Twitter and found this gem.



Wow...she sure proved it there.

And she's another person that doesn't understand how RT works.

 

[Spideyfan117]

Well....At least it's not the worst received superhero film ever. Fan4stic is sitting at 9%.

But "good job" for making it the worst received Batman/Superman movie ever, Synder. Good thing Affleck is directing his solo Batman, so this won't matter soon.

Snyder still has his paws on Justice League. So we're not out of this yet. :/

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

If preconceptions really have hurt the DCEU thus far, Snyder hasn't afforded us the opportunity to see it demonstrated. He's cranked out two incredibly subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is based on. I'm absolutely sick of this argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to distract from the real issues.

It's a piss-poor argument and a lazy excuse. I'm a Marvel fanboy (everyone knows that about me) and did not grow up with all the DC attachment some others may have. I saw The old Supes films as a kid and grew up with Batman 89 and all the rest. I loved TAS growing up and think nobody comes close to DC's animated films. All that being said, BvS was just a crappy movie. All the world building was only relevant for the fanboys, numerous casual moviegoers I know had no clue what any of it was supposed to be for the most part. Hell, I know there are many things I didn't even get until I read about them here on the Hype. It just didn't work as a cohesive movie for the most part. I can see why the critics ripped it apart and the RT scores have been pretty dismal. That's what this film deserves.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's a piss-poor argument and a lazy excuse. I'm a Marvel fanboy (everyone knows that about me) and did not grow up with all the DC attachment some others may have. I saw The old Supes films as a kid and grew up with Batman 89 and all the rest. I loved TAS growing up and think nobody comes close to DC's animated films. All that being said, BvS was just a crappy movie. All the world building was only relevant for the fanboys, numerous casual moviegoers I know had no clue what any of it was supposed to be for the most part. Hell, I know there are many things I didn't even get until I read about them here on the Hype. It just didn't work as a cohesive movie for the most part. I can see why the critics ripped it apart and the RT scores have been pretty dismal. That's what this film deserves.

Yup. It's a genuinely bad movie, and the public treated it as such.
I wonder how this excuse is going to look whenever DC starts making movies that are well regarded amongst critics and audiences?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Yup. It's a genuinely bad movie, and the public treated it as such.
I wonder how this excuse is going to look whenever DC starts making movies that are well regarded amongst critics and audiences?

The new excuse will be that the critics revolted against the Disney overlords.

 

[Kobra]

If preconceptions really have hurt the DCEU thus far, Snyder hasn't afforded us the opportunity to see it demonstrated. He's cranked out two incredibly subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is based on. I'm absolutely sick of this argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to distract from the real issues.

It's not an excuse. It's a perfectly valid argument.

"subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is"

Really? You can find plenty of "movies riddled with problems" that were much better received than MOS. You have absolutely no way of knowing how a movie would have been received in different circumstances.

Your argument is nothing more than an excuse to distract from other possible factors, since certain people around here, like you, want nothing more than to preserve the idea that these movies are very bad and that's why 99% of the audience didn't like it. Why?

Let's not forget the majority still liked MOS. We're not talking about a massive failure. Just a movie that rubbed certain people in the wrong way. If you think people who hate the movie are right and people who loved it are wrong, well, that's just your opinion. MOS is a flawed movie. I can say the same about a good percentage of the superhero movie you would consider superior.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

If preconceptions really have hurt the DCEU thus far, Snyder hasn't afforded us the opportunity to see it demonstrated. He's cranked out two incredibly subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is based on. I'm absolutely sick of this argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to distract from the real issues.

I'm getting tired of all these "preconceptions" defenses for BvS's characters that people don't like them "because it's not the take you wanted or know".

Explain Doc Ock in Spidey 2.

I love Spidey 2 but Doc Ock is nothing like the comics. Doc Ock was married. His tentacles have thoughts of their own. He was Peter's mentor. He didn't wear a green and yellow suit.

AND YET HE'S SEEN AS ONE OF THE BEST COMIC BOOK FILM VILLAINS!!!!

Look at Heath's Joker. He was never thrown in a vat of chemicals. He just wears makeup. He has scars on his face. He uses guns & knives. Not joy buzzers or laughing gas. Batman didn't create him like in the comics. Joker helped in creating Two-Face.

AND YET HE'S NOT ONLY THE BEST COMIC BOOK VILLAIN BUT ONE OF THE BEST VILLAINS IN FILM HISTORY!!!!

It's not that people dislike change or something new. Because they don't. It's that they dislike stupid changes. People hated Fant4stic, X-Men Origins: Wolverine's Deadpool, Batman & Robin's Mr Freeze.

Maybe it's not preconceptions, maybe the characterization just suck.

 

[Kobra]

I'm getting tired of all these "preconceptions" defenses for BvS's characters that people don't like them "because it's not the take you wanted or know".

Who cares about what you're getting tired of. Deal with it.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's not an excuse. It's a perfectly valid argument.

I'm waiting to see any evidence of this.

"subpar movies riddled with problems that wouldn't be particularly well recieved no matter what character it is"

Really? You can find plenty of "movies riddled with problems" that were much better received than MOS.

You are entitled to your opinion.

You have absolutely no way of knowing how a movie would have been received in different circumstances.

And you have no way of knowing the level of pre-conceptions that exist in movie-goers on a mass scale, yet here we are.

Your argument is nothing more than an excuse to distract from other possible factors, since certain people around here, like you, want nothing more than to preserve the idea that these movies are very bad and that's why 99% of the audience didn't like it. Why?

The only person trying to distract or deflect anything are the people insisting this film's reception was significantly impacted by anything other than the quality. Let's talk about what actually happens in the movie. That way we can address the numerous criticisms that tear BvS apart from top to bottom that, once again, deal with the contents of the film itself.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Who cares about what you're getting tired of. Deal with it.

Ah the old "don't like it, deal with it" approach.

I am. I won't see another DC film (unless it's Suicide Squad or Batfleck solo directed by Ben) unless it's well received or I get a free ticket.

 

[Kobra]

Ah the old "don't like it, deal with it" approach.

I am. I won't see another DC film (unless it's Suicide Squad or Batfleck solo directed by Ben) unless it's well received or I get a free ticket.

Exactly. Deal with it. You won't force people to agree with you. You have your opinions, other people have their own. If you can't accept this, you have a serious problem. Because, like i said, nobody cares if you're tired or not. I'm not gonna change my views because some random dude on the internet can't shut up about being tired of it. If you're tired of the subject, move on to better things.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Exactly. Deal with it. You won't force people to agree with you. You have your opinions, other people have their own. If you can't accept this, you have a serious problem. Because, like i said, nobody cares if you're tired or not. I'm not gonna change my views because some random dude on the internet can't shut up about being tired of it. If you're tired of the subject, move on to better things.

I wonder if WB will 'deal with' the hundreds of millions of dollars they won't be getting from moviegoers that they could have had.

 

[Kobra]

I'm waiting to see any evidence of this.



You are entitled to your opinion.

You can see plenty of evidence everytime people complain about the characters not being the version they expected. You can see plenty of evidence everytime a critic makes comparisons with the old Superman and complains about some elements of those movies not being in the new version. You can see plenty evidence when people are already hating on the movie before it comes out. Now, what evidence do you have that perceptions played no role in the whole thing?

And you have no way of knowing the level of pre-conceptions that exist in movie-goers on a mass scale, yet here we are.

I don't and that doesn't matter because i do know that pre-conceptions exist. Period.

The whole subject interests me very much. Especially the impact of critics on people's opinions. So much that in a near future i will organize an experiment in my university to help me understand a little better the issue. I will choose 1 very unknown movie. I will gather around 100 people(or maybe more) and divide them in two groups. To one group i will say that the movie is considered a masterpiece among critics, and to the other group i will say that it's considered a very very bad movie. I will ask each group to rate the movie. Then i will compare the results and see if expectations had a big impact or not in people's perceptions.

 

[Flint Marko]

You can see plenty of evidence everytime people complain about the characters not being the version they expected. You can see plenty of evidence everytime a critic makes comparisons with the old Superman and complains about some elements of those movies not being in the new version. You can see plenty evidence when people are already hating on the movie before it comes out. Now, what evidence do you have that perceptions played no role in the whole thing?

How about the fact that every one of these aforementioned complaints are always cushioned in between the numerous other criticisms regarding, amongst other things, the films choppy editing, the incoherency of the plot, the unnecessarily dour tone, the lack of compelling characterization, the over-reliance on action, etc. I could keep going because there's so much else to criticize, and it all comes up in every single negative review of the film.
Comparisons between previous interpretations are inevitable and aren't an indicator of anything regarding someone's bias/pre-conceptions. If I buy a turkey sandwich from subway and the next day I buy one from Arbys that is of considerably lower quality, I'm naturally going to make comparisons between the two. They're both Turkey sandwiches, after all. Doesn't mean I'm biased for Subway or against Arbys, it just means I'm not at all satisfied with this recent sandwich.

 

[The Joker]

It's not an excuse. It's a perfectly valid argument.

Based on what?

Really? You can find plenty of "movies riddled with problems" that were much better received than MOS. You have absolutely no way of knowing how a movie would have been received in different circumstances.

Probably because those movies had a lot more positives going for them than MOS did. Pros out weigh the cons.

Your argument is nothing more than an excuse to distract from other possible factors, since certain people around here, like you, want nothing more than to preserve the idea that these movies are very bad and that's why 99% of the audience didn't like it. Why?

Because it's the truth that's why. People don't care what critics think. People will like what they like, and hate what they hate, and not because of what the critics or anyone else says. The number of times that critics have hated movies that audiences loved.

Who cares about what you're getting tired of. Deal with it.

You're begging for another stint on probation.

I wonder if WB will 'deal with' the hundreds of millions of dollars they won't be getting from moviegoers that they could have had.

That will be the hardest pill for them to swallow.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I'm getting tired of all these "preconceptions" defenses for BvS's characters that people don't like them "because it's not the take you wanted or know".

Explain Doc Ock in Spidey 2.

I love Spidey 2 but Doc Ock is nothing like the comics. Doc Ock was married. His tentacles have thoughts of their own. He was Peter's mentor. He didn't wear a green and yellow suit.

AND YET HE'S SEEN AS ONE OF THE BEST COMIC BOOK FILM VILLAINS!!!!

Look at Heath's Joker. He was never thrown in a vat of chemicals. He just wears makeup. He has scars on his face. He uses guns & knives. Not joy buzzers or laughing gas. Batman didn't create him like in the comics. Joker helped in creating Two-Face.

AND YET HE'S NOT ONLY THE BEST COMIC BOOK VILLAIN BUT ONE OF THE BEST VILLAINS IN FILM HISTORY!!!!

It's not that people dislike change or something new. Because they don't. It's that they dislike stupid changes. People hated Fant4stic, X-Men Origins: Wolverine's Deadpool, Batman & Robin's Mr Freeze.

Maybe it's not preconceptions, maybe the characterization just suck.

Bingo. I have no problem with shaking up the origins of these characters or some of the things they do. But if the changes they make are f***ing stupid, they deserve to be ridiculed for it.

 

[Kobra]

Based on what?

I already answered that.

Probably because those movies had a lot more positives going for them than MOS did. Pros out weigh the cons.

That's one theory.

Because it's the truth that's why. People don't care what critics think. People will like what they like, and hate what they hate, and not because of what the critics or anyone else says. The number of times that critics have hated movies that audiences loved.

Really? How many times have critics hated something and the audiences LOVED IT? And how do you know the audience rating wouldn't have been even higher if the critics score wasn't so low? You talk about truth but i don't think you can really prove that anything you say.

 

[Kobra]

How about the fact that every one of these aforementioned complaints are always cushioned in between the numerous other criticisms regarding, amongst other things, the films choppy editing, the incoherency of the plot, the unnecessarily dour tone, the lack of compelling characterization, the over-reliance on action, etc. I could keep going because there's so much else to criticize, and it all comes up in every single negative review of the film.
Comparisons between previous interpretations are inevitable and aren't an indicator of anything regarding someone's bias/pre-conceptions. If I buy a turkey sandwich from subway and the next day I buy one from Arbys that is of considerably lower quality, I'm naturally going to make comparisons between the two. They're both Turkey sandwiches, after all. Doesn't mean I'm biased for Subway or against Arbys, it just means I'm not at all satisfied with this recent sandwich.

I never said there wasn't anything to criticize. But the same complains you can make about MOS, you can also make about many other movies that get much better ratings. The fact that a movie has issues doesn't disprove my theory that preconceived ideas make it harder for certain people to enjoy the movie with an open mind. I don't know where you're trying to go with all this, but you're really not proving your point.

 

[The Joker]

I already answered that.

I didn't read it. Answer it again please. Copy and paste what you said.

That's one theory.

That's logic. Movies can have issues, but if the pros outweigh the cons the movies will be rated well.

Really? How many times have critics hated something and the audiences LOVED IT? And how do you know the audience rating wouldn't have been even higher if the critics score wasn't so low? You talk about truth but i don't think you can really prove that anything you say.

Here's 25 examples for you;

http://www.hollywood.com/movies/movies-audiences-loved-critics-hated-rotten-tomatoes-57160822/

Why would the audience rating be higher if the critic score was? You're asking us to believe people are sheep who will rate something higher just because the critics do.

 

[Kobra]

I didn't read it. Answer it again please. Copy and paste what you said.

You can see plenty of evidence everytime people complain about the characters not being the version they expected. You can see plenty of evidence everytime a critic makes comparisons with the old Superman and complains about some elements of those movies not being in the new version. You can see plenty evidence when people are already hating on the movie before it comes out. Now, what evidence do you have that perceptions played no role in the whole thing?

That's logic. Movies can have issues, but if the pros outweigh the cons the movies will be rated well.

True. That still doesn't invalidate the existence of other factors that can contribute to influence people's opinions.

Here's 25 examples for you;

http://www.hollywood.com/movies/movies-audiences-loved-critics-hated-rotten-tomatoes-57160822/

Why would the audience rating be higher if the critic score was? You're asking us to believe people are sheep who will rate something higher just because the critics do.

Thank you, but i'm aware that audience and critics don't always agree. That has absolutely nothing to do with the point i was trying to make.

Are you seriously suggesting that a score of 30% has absolutely no impact on those looking to know if the movie is good or not beforehand?

 

[Wylie Times]

Are you seriously suggesting that a score of 30% has absolutely no impact on those looking to know if the movie is good or not beforehand?

It depends on the movie....

Certain movies are "critic proof".

In fact the running narrative for Batman V Superman after the critics panned it was "Nobody cares what critics think". The opening weekend numbers proved that people were ignoring the critics. The reason the movie has under performed is because most people that saw the movie didn't go back for repeat viewings. GA Word of mouth had a MUCH bigger impact than critics.

 

[superion]

It depends on the movie....

Certain movies are "critic proof".

In fact the running narrative for Batman V Superman after the critics panned it was "Nobody cares what critics think". The opening weekend numbers proved that people were ignoring the critics. The reason the movie has under performed is because most people that saw the movie didn't go back for repeat viewings. GA Word of mouth had a MUCH bigger impact than critics.

This. The movie still opened huge despite the critics. The fact it collapsed afterward is all on the movie. Just look at Michael Bays Transformer movies critics hated them all as well and the last few also had Rotten Tomato ratings of around 30% or lower that didn't stop the last two from making a billion each.