The Dark Knight Rises Catwoman Discussion Thread

[Crook]

Like who?

Is Bale a leftfield choice? Is Neeson? Is Morgan Freeman? Is Gary Oldman? Is Michael Caine?

No, they ain't.

The closest you can get to leftfield choices so far is Heath Ledger. But Nolan didn't go "Hey no one would expect Ledger as the Joker! Let's cast him!"

Nolan chose Ledger because they both had similar ideas when it comes to portraying Joker in the world Nolan created in Begins. That's it.

Oldman was very much a left-field choice.

Otherwise, I agree.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

But---she does.

I think if it serves as a baseline rather than a sole factor to casting the role, it's fine. This isn't any more different than "Batman should be a bad-ass" or "Spidey needs to look geeky but charming".

Baseline? Maybe. But may people here tend to lack moderation and don't seem to be able to find balance, always bringing up names that are known for extremely hot bimbos only, or actresses they know from geek fave films.

Also, take note of what baseline is. Believing Catwoman is, above all else, a sex goddess is wrong. That could be a correct assertion for... I don't know, Poison Ivy (and even with her some nuance should be looked for) but Selina, althouh also being hot, stands for many other things that need to be conveyed through very good acting. It's a tricky role that can't be done well by anybody. Yet there's a surplus of untalented bimbos mentioned.

Bottom line, there needs to be compromise. I'm strongly rooting for Cotillard. Do I think she's the hottest woman available - sex incarnate? Not really. But she is attractive in non-typical ways that I tink suit the character even more. And he has proven being able of dealing with Catwoman's main traits (minus the physical acting) without having played a carbon copy of the character before. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Like who?

Is Bale a leftfield choice? Is Neeson? Is Morgan Freeman? Is Gary Oldman? Is Michael Caine?

No, they ain't.

The closest you can get to leftfield choices so far is Heath Ledger. But Nolan didn't go "Hey no one would expect Ledger as the Joker! Let's cast him!"

Nolan chose Ledger because they both had similar ideas when it comes to portraying Joker in the world Nolan created in Begins. That's it.

Mind you, Wilkinson, Oldman and Murphy were somewhat left-field. They just didn't bring so much focus on themselves as Ledger did.

Bale wasn't a left field, but it wasn't a big celeb either. Major points for the fan online movement that banded together to support that inspired and non-typical choice. To be honest, I don't see that happening now.

Neeson was a predictable one, but Nolan played on that predictability to enhance the twist. Although we have seen Neeson playing a mentor multiple times, we haven't seen him playing a bad guy often. Same goes for Eckhart, predictable Harvey Dent, left-field Two-Face.

And then there are all the relatively unknown actors (Mark Boone Jr., Linus Roache) and has-beens (Rutger Hauer, Eric Roberts) that usually fill secondary roles. I've seen some big names here being cast for the most secondary roles, just because people want to see them in the films, not minding all the attention that would go to them.

Despite all of this, I do agree with you, some people read too much into it. It's not an unbreakable rule for him. But he does have a knack for some left-field casting (i.e. David Bowie).

IMO, Nolan just likes to mix it up... and "Imsomnia" was the perfect example with totally cliché Pacino and completely left-field Robin Williams. Nolan's record makes hard to predict anything.

 

[Van Petrol]

The potential Matt Damon as Harvey Dent casting seemed a little bit 'left field' to me. Heck, I didn't expect Aaron Eckhart either.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

The potential Matt Damon as Harvey Dent casting seemed a little bit 'left field' to me. Heck, I didn't expect Aaron Eckhart either.

That's a very good point. I get that Eckhart wasn't "left-field" in the sense that he wasn't a controversial choice. But I don't remember anyone expecting him. All I remember is lots of Guy Pearce and Liev Schreiber. Eckhart came out of nowhere.

 

[Crook]

Also, take note of what baseline is. Believing Catwoman is, above all else, a sex goddess is wrong. That could be a correct assertion for... I don't know, Poison Ivy (and even with her some nuance should be looked for) but Selina, althouh also being hot, stands for many other things that need to be conveyed through very good acting. It's a tricky role that can't be done well by anybody. Yet there's a surplus of untalented bimbos mentioned.

Baseline in terms of capturing the most basic, stand-out superficial element of the character. We should all hope for an actress that captures the intricacies Selina possesses. That's a given. But that's for a more advanced stage in casting, after you've filtered out the more identifiable traits.

There's a (shallow) truth to describing Catwoman as "sex incarnate". She's practically the poster-girl for the seductress/femme fatale. It's a lot easier to narrow down your choices by looking at the select group of actresses that have the ability to display and exude that type of demeanor. If she can't, then I would have to deem that choice very poor for failing on the most austere standard.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Baseline in terms of capturing the most basic, stand-out superficial element of the character. We should all hope for an actress that captures the intricacies Selina possesses. That's a given. But that's for a more advanced stage in casting, after you've filtered out the more identifiable traits.

There's a (shallow) truth to describing Catwoman as "sex incarnate". She's practically the poster-girl for the seductress/femme fatale. It's a lot easier to narrow down your choices by looking at the select group of actresses that have the ability to display and exude that type of demeanor. If she can't, then I would have to deem that choice very poor for failing on the most austere standard.

So i see you got the Saint virus.

 

[Nightwing 52]

(Sorry about the size)

 

[jmc]

I'm no expert when it comes to fashion but god teal is an awful colour.

 

[Crook]

So i see you got the Saint virus.

..the hell is that? It's not fatal, is it?

Oh, and Marion looks gorgeous there. Not the hottest thing out there, but there's definitely a very unique sexiness to her.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I wouldn't say no to a roll in the hay with her, that's fer sure...

But hey, I wouldn't say no to Liz Taylor, but that's just me.

 

[jmc]

Might just the photo angles but she looks like she's bulked up slightly.

 

[Two-Face]

The Batman was mentioned because it had portrayal of Catwoman that pleased people on many fronts, and her characterization and relationship to with Bruce/Batman was actually an improvement upon BTAS.

But of course, this place is always open for better suggestions. Please.




Hmm, this I have to agree with.



But NOT this. The thought of Catwoman needs to be played by "sex incarnate" (mixed with narrow fanboy references) has led to the worst ideas in this thread.

The Batman had some great episodes. Catwoman, Riddler, Clayface, the introduction of Robin, and others were handled very, very well.
Not just that, but the risks they took with the designs paid off in Catwoman's and Riddler's case. They looked great.

The story of Catwoman was done very that I agree but I just don't like the design of suit and wouldn'r want to see it in Batman 3.

 

[Mr. Earle]

..the hell is that? It's not fatal, is it?

Lol, i was joking about how you wrote like Saint.

Oh, and Marion looks gorgeous there. Not the hottest thing out there, but there's definitely a very unique sexiness to her.

Seconded. A classy sexiness if i might add. Just perfect.

 

[conan69]

"The closest you can get to leftfield choices so far is Heath Ledger. But Nolan didn't go "Hey no one would expect Ledger as the Joker! Let's cast him!"


I said to alot of people here and on other boards when everyone went crazy when Ledger was cast - that we werent a the casting, we didnt see Ledger test - Nolan must have seen something to make him want to go with Ledger, why not wait and see.

Anyone remember that pathetic open letter to WB here on SHH about replacing Ledger because he sucks after the imax footage was shown.

I kept defending the choice of Gale for WW, while everyone else here was screaming I was a idiot and no it had to be Winstead.

People need to calm down and see the results before going ballistic.

Oh and for those who say Swank has a ugly jaw and big teeth, well I can say the same for Jennifer Garner, but I dont see people questioning her hotness.

 

[jmc]

Even though I think she has a geekish attractiveness, I know plenty of people who question Garner's hotness.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Heh, I question Jennifer Garnder's hotness.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I like Garner but she is not Catwoman.
She sometimes looks like a man btw.

 

[Laderlappen]

Not even Ledger was as left field as people are making him to be. People didnt want him because fanboys cant like a young actor that is popular by young girls. People also didnt want him because he played a gay character. Remeber all the Brokeback Batman crap?! Also fanboys are focused way too much on looks and way too little on acting. All the hate was because of really stupid reasons.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Baseline in terms of capturing the most basic, stand-out superficial element of the character. We should all hope for an actress that captures the intricacies Selina possesses. That's a given. But that's for a more advanced stage in casting, after you've filtered out the more identifiable traits.

New people always come to this boards and bring the same choices that have been filtered out by lack of general qualitites. And those baselines, when not backed up by some real understanding of the character, are really tricky. I've seen suggestions that would be the equivalent of casting The Rock as Bane because, let's face it, Bane has a huge complexion and The Rock is a celeb, right? Do you see where I'm go to?

There's a (shallow) truth to describing Catwoman as "sex incarnate". She's practically the poster-girl for the seductress/femme fatale.

Too shallow, I'd say. She doesn't rely on pure seduction to achieve her goals, and she draws her claws sooner than later. She's usually more agressive and free-spirited than a typical seductress. In the bat world, that role would be better fit by Poison Ivy (or maybe even Talia) and the differences between them are noticeable. And knowing that narrows it even more. For example, I could say Kate Beckinsale is really, really hot, but I haven't seen her in a definitely sassy, strong role (strong =/= action-packed) and she relies too often on pouty faces.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Not even Ledger was as left field as people are making him to be. People didnt want him because fanboys cant like a young actor that is popular by young girls. People also didnt want him because he played a gay character. Remeber all the Brokeback Batman crap?! Also fanboys are focused way too much on looks and way too little on acting. All the hate was because of really stupid reasons.

Let's not rewrite history. He was left-field because he hadn't played a similar character before. He was left-field in Brokeback Mountain and he was left-field in TDK. And of course, I'm sure Nolan played on those expectations, to take us all by surprise. Even his other colleagues were surprised. An actor's resume and public image is a baggage he takes on to the screen and directors have to consider that stuff while casting. Remember the usual fan suggestions back in the day? Ledger was indeed pretty left-field.

 

[Laderlappen]

I didnt say he wasnt left field. People made him out to be one of the most left field choices of all time. He wasnt more left field than basically any other famous villian in movie history. No he was never suggested sure, but that is shocking really. He had the look and he had the talent. Like I mentioned people care too much about the looks and to them he didnt have the look enough when he really did.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

I didnt say he wasnt left field. People made him out to be one of the most left field choices of all time.

Yeah, I get you... the problem is that, well, I'm one of those people.

He wasnt more left field than basically any other famous villian in movie history.

I'm most certainly strongly disagree with that. He was certainly miles more into 'left-field' than Nicholson's Joker. Or Lugosi's Dracula, or Robert DeNiro's Al Capone in "The Untouchables", or Al Pacino in "Dick Tracy", or Hackman's Luthor, or Fiennes' Voldemort, or Christopher Lee's Saruman. Please, tell me of these famous left-field adapted villains.

And note I'm just mentioning the adaptations here. Other famous cast choices, considered unpredictable nowadays, like Hopkins' Hannibal Lecter, or Alan Rickman's Hans Gruber, or Fiennes's nazi officer in "Schindler's List", weren't really left-field because they matched the character perfectly like if it was written for them, not having to fight preconceived notions of the character before.

So you will have to tell to which 'famous movie villains' you're comparing Ledger with. Because I think you're wrong here.

He had the look

Nope, he didn't.

and he had the talent.

Yeah he did. Fanboys just weren't aware he had just got robbed of an Oscar.

Like I mentioned people care too much about the looks and to them he didnt have the look enough when he really did.

He didn't really look that much as the Joker. But it turned out than (albeit the make-up helped a little), the Joker was much more about demeanor than and accurate, carbon-copy look. They seemed to forget Jack Nicholson wasn't exactly the Joker's doppleganger (he didn't have the weight nor the chin, but who cares?). And judging from some of the casting suggestions in the boards, some need a reminder again.

 

[Matt.S99]

I'm no expert when it comes to fashion but god teal is an awful colour.

I think it looks beautiful. Especially on her.

 

[Laderlappen]

I'm most certainly strongly disagree with that. He was certainly miles more into 'left-field' than Nicholson's Joker. Or Lugosi's Dracula, or Robert DeNiro's Al Capone in "The Untouchables", or Al Pacino in "Dick Tracy", or Hackman's Luthor, or Fiennes' Voldemort, or Christopher Lee's Saruman. Please, tell me of these famous left-field adapted villains.

Yes Ledger is more left field than those obviously. You just picked 7 guys that are famous for playing villians. Example of left field villians: Basically every batman villian so far except Nicholson.

Nope, he didn't.

He was tall, skinny, and had a big smile.