Chapter 39 - “Angels and Monsters” – Discussion Thread 10/13/08

All this blurring of the lines is making it harder and harder to really give a damn about any of the characters.

Y'know, part of what I used to love about Heroes was that they weren't really superheroes, they were more everyday heroes with super powers that they didn't know how to use very well. I mean, really... who has Peter actually saved other than Claire? We get to root for these guys like they're superheroes, but they really only have one or two heroic acts at most to their name. That's something I loved about the show.

So blurring the lines has no effect on me, because I never saw any lines.
 
Y'know, part of what I used to love about Heroes was that they weren't really superheroes, they were more everyday heroes with super powers that they didn't know how to use very well. I mean, really... who has Peter actually saved other than Claire? We get to root for these guys like they're superheroes, but they really only have one or two heroic acts at most to their name. That's something I loved about the show.

So blurring the lines has no effect on me, because I never saw any lines.

He saved the human race when he kept himself from releasing the virus
 
^I just don't want to be spoiled:o With 5 future episodes floating around on the front page in here...I would be mad if I accidentally clicked on one and read what I wasn't suppose to read that spoils something in the next episode. Because we don't have a non-spoiler section or a spoiler section here...it is hard to avoid spoilers.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=311220

Great episode.
-I certainely doubt that Hiro killed Ando. They must have staged it but don't ask me how.

How did they stage it? :oldrazz:

seriously, i can't believe that he killed ando like that. I was hoping he stab him somewhere in his body that won't kill him; but at the heart, wow. badass or not, thats cruel. but somehow, i think he'll come back alive.

We don't know where the black hole goes! He could still be alive.

yeah, i wonder where that vortex goes. and if he come back from it.
 
Anyone notice the sound effects they were using for Suresh in this ep? It sounded like insect wings buzzing or something.
 
Hell of an episode last night. Raised a lot of questions :up:
 
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I'm having a hard time understanding Peter's hunger for power. He automatically copies another person's abilities, why does he need to cut their head off? Peter proved in the last episode that he can figure out how the ability works when he used superspeed. Am I missing something? :huh:

Yeah, Peter's power gets ignored A LOT

We don't know where the black hole goes! He could still be alive.

Haha, what if a vortex randomly opened up during a later season and whole ton of crap(including that guy) just came spilling out? :D
 
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they say that black holes could lead to other dimension or even act as worm holes and maybe even allow time travel ...maybe peter could use it to go save caitlin...ya know if he cared :D
 
Everyone's problem with Peter's powers stems mostly from Present Peter right?(as far as I can see). Obviously, as shown by Future Peter, he gets more effective with him.
It's entirely possible that Present Peter still just hasn't been able to put together the most effective means for utilizing all his powers...he does seem kinda slow sometimes.
 
Anyone notice the sound effects they were using for Suresh in this ep? It sounded like insect wings buzzing or something.

Yeah. Mohinder's "theme" has had a locust-like sound to it ever since he started his tranformation.
 
I just caught the episode tonight on G4, Hiro killing Ando made me want to cry.
 
NUP_131378_0506.jpg


:waa:
 
I'm just not digging Mohinder this season. The whole "the fly" thing just seems ridiculous and out of character for him.

Also, the whole double strand DNA symbolism in the show seemed to have lost its meaning. It was this ominous symbol in S1, somehow connected to something greater, connecting everyone.

Then it was connected to the company, and now this new Pinehearst organization. It just loses its significance.

On a side note, how is it that Nathan found God, then sleeps with another woman. Isn't he still married? And what happened to his wife and kids? (forgive me if I forgot some details from S2)
 
I'm just not digging Mohinder this season. The whole "the fly" thing just seems ridiculous and out of character for him.

Also, the whole double strand DNA symbolism in the show seemed to have lost its meaning. It was this ominous symbol in S1, somehow connected to something greater, connecting everyone.

Then it was connected to the company, and now this new Pinehearst organization. It just loses its significance.

On a side note, how is it that Nathan found God, then sleeps with another woman. Isn't he still married? And what happened to his wife and kids? (forgive me if I forgot some details from S2)

his wife left him after mom Patrelli convinced her he was unstable
 
Y'know, part of what I used to love about Heroes was that they weren't really superheroes, they were more everyday heroes with super powers that they didn't know how to use very well. I mean, really... who has Peter actually saved other than Claire? We get to root for these guys like they're superheroes, but they really only have one or two heroic acts at most to their name. That's something I loved about the show.

So blurring the lines has no effect on me, because I never saw any lines.

Peter was an incredibly good person. Hiro was an impossibly good person. Sylar was a very very evil person. This has been clear from the beginning. I mean, they even said in one of the episodes this season about Peter: "Nobody is that good..."

And then true we had these characters like HRG, Nikki, Nathan and lots of others that we're neither good nor evil.

And while I understand the fact that Peter, Hiro and Sylar (and Mohinder for that matter) could've been one dimensional because of the extremes they represented, I for one liked them for what they were. But now it seems that turning evil is just as simple as flciking a switch in somebody's brain. You cannot tell me that makes for healthy character development. To me it is lazy, contrived and all in all subpar characterization. And frankly I'm kind of worried everybody seems to like this episode so much.

The turn to the darkside is a journey, not a lightswitch.
 
Peter was an incredibly good person. Hiro was an impossibly good person. Sylar was a very very evil person. This has been clear from the beginning. I mean, they even said in one of the episodes this season about Peter: "Nobody is that good..."

And then true we had these characters like HRG, Nikki, Nathan and lots of others that we're neither good nor evil.

And while I understand the fact that Peter, Hiro and Sylar (and Mohinder for that matter) could've been one dimensional because of the extremes they represented, I for one liked them for what they were. But now it seems that turning evil is just as simple as flciking a switch in somebody's brain. You cannot tell me that makes for healthy character development. To me it is lazy, contrived and all in all subpar characterization. And frankly I'm kind of worried everybody seems to like this episode so much.

The turn to the darkside is a journey, not a lightswitch.
its not like they just woke up on morning and decided...." i like i'll be evil......starting today" they've all had something MAJOR or traumatic happen to them to "change" them, i doubt any of them will remain changed.
except for maybe sylar.

peter turning bad is because sylars power makes him........ insanely
"hungry" for knowledge, and supposedly it turns ppl into monsters.

Hiro turning bad is obviously a ruse of some sort.

mohinder.........i think, is getting more primal/agressive and instinctual then anything else.

sylar..........well idk....maybe his mom telling him he's special has finally began to cool his hungry.
 
I really like this season more than season 2, I think it might even be better than season 2, it's so juicy, I knew it was the dad-can't wait to see what he can and will do


I wonder how Hiro'll fix what he did to Ando... and I can't wait to see the romance develop between Daphne and Matt-odd I couldn't stand Daphne, but after the last episode of her future self and seeing this one, I'm starting to warm up to the speedster
 
I'm liking this season.

But anyone else wonder why they had to dig up Adam's coffin? Couldn't Hiro have just teleported it out of the ground...isn't that how he got it there?


Hiro doesn't use his abilities to the best of his abilties, for ex. when Adam get's away why didn't Hiro just go back in time to see where he went, that way he didn't have to kill Ando
 
its not like they just woke up on morning and decided...." i like i'll be evil......starting today" they've all had something MAJOR or traumatic happen to them to "change" them, i doubt any of them will remain changed.
except for maybe sylar.

peter turning bad is because sylars power makes him........ insanely
"hungry" for knowledge, and supposedly it turns ppl into monsters.

Well that's the problem for me. It's how you use the power that sould define you as a character. The power itself should not be evil. I would understand if Sylar's psychological issues would make him "hungry" for knowledge, but that's not something that can be transferred.

At this point, the only salvation for me for this particular plot would be if his father actually designed Sylar like that, wanting him to be his secret weapon against the other specials or something. So Mama Petrelli would have Peter who mimics other powers and Papa Petrelli would have Gabriel who understands other powers.

Otherwise it just pisses all over 2 seasons of character development.


Hiro turning bad is obviously a ruse of some sort.

mohinder.........i think, is getting more primal/agressive and instinctual then anything else.
Mohinder is turning into a calculated serial killer and there's nothing primal about that. Primal is to lash out at somebody for something, not to go looking for victims for your experiments or whatever. Mohinder seems perfectly aware of what he's doing.

sylar..........well idk....maybe his mom telling him he's special has finally began to cool his hungry.

so like I said, it has to do with his own psychological issues. Thank you.

:wow::csad:
 
O and on another forum someone mentioned to me that in the Jet li movie "Hero" that he stabbed someone a certain way that it wouldn't kill them but look like it... Maybe Kaito taught Hiro that during his Sword Training

Oh yeah, I remember that from HERO.
 
BTW, I just noticed that the "vortex" looks a teenie weenie bit like the eclipse image. Okay, I'm stretching it, but it's fun to speculate.
 
There is a GIANT SPOILER below, it's about Ando's fate, but if you don't want to know, DON'T READ IT.

http://spoilertv-heroes.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmation-that-ando-is-alive.html
 
I don't get why everyone has such a problem with Syler's "hunger". I didn't take it as it being his power but a negative side effect of his power to understand. He desires to understand no matter the cost. And as someone else brought up, Peter has the same negative side effect but it seems to be more towards understanding people's motivation's rather than their powers.
 
He saved the human race when he kept himself from releasing the virus

Good point. That's two for Peter.

Peter was an incredibly good person. Hiro was an impossibly good person. Sylar was a very very evil person. This has been clear from the beginning. I mean, they even said in one of the episodes this season about Peter: "Nobody is that good..."

And then true we had these characters like HRG, Nikki, Nathan and lots of others that we're neither good nor evil.

And while I understand the fact that Peter, Hiro and Sylar (and Mohinder for that matter) could've been one dimensional because of the extremes they represented, I for one liked them for what they were. But now it seems that turning evil is just as simple as flciking a switch in somebody's brain. You cannot tell me that makes for healthy character development. To me it is lazy, contrived and all in all subpar characterization. And frankly I'm kind of worried everybody seems to like this episode so much.

The turn to the darkside is a journey, not a lightswitch.

You're right, and I also disagree. Peter was a good person, it takes a lot to be an empathic hospice nurse. Hiro was an idealist, but he was, as far as I could tell, primarily self-centered. Until he 'grows up,' to me, he's still playing hero. Sylar was very twisted, and a bad person, but he still had a conscience that was able to be pricked by innocent death that fell outside of his 'interests.' I too, loved these characters for what they were, but I never let myself think that these were 'good guys' and 'bad guys' because, to me they were too well-realized to be categorized into comic book cliches.

Of course it shouldn't be a lightswitch, like they've done this season, but we already saw in S1 that a little dose of reality (Ando's death) turns "impossbily good" hero into an Anti-hero badass who's sole motivation is the primarily selfish one of getting his best friend back. That's right, according to S1 Future Peter (an experienced Empath, btw), Hiro twisted time to get his friend back. It wasn't until his Five Years gone that Future Hiro actually got up the real selfless guts to sacrifice himself, and then again, it was for a past version of himself.

Imho, Hiro is easy. Having one of his heroic idols (Takezo would have been perfect) break his heart could have ripped Hiro from his idealism, and sent him at the very least, into the 'normal people' range that all of the other characters inhabit. Malicious or not, he could have been naturally turned to a negative influence.

Peter is easier in many ways. As someone who is used to death, he is perfect for being the 'greater good' type of villain and honestly, all it takes is one power trip. As soon as he thinks he has the power to fix things that shouldn't be fixed he'll try. That was actually the only good thing about Future Peter... he logically SHOULD be a villain, jacking everyone's lives up for the greater good... the only thing they messed up with him is trying to make him heroic... there's no reason Future Peter should ever be too late for anything, or have trouble finding anyone instantly. He should have no challenge popping the nor should he be 'running' for his life.

Sylar, of course, is too twisted to naturally develop into a heroic figure. Of course, they had a great storyline with Haitian amnesia that would have certainly turned Sylar into a hero, at least temporarily.

But even with or without all this, Peter "no one is that good" Petrelli was the explosion from S1 and Nathan "Billain" Petrelli was the one who saved the day. Peter was the villain's dragon in S2, and the virus wouldn't have gotten out without him. Morally grey, and switching from heroic to villainous and vice versa was a basic theme of the show. Just because they're doing a bad job of it doesn't mean it should be included.
 

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