Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[baerrtt]

As someone who loved Logan, GOTG2, and Wonder Woman, this has been a fantastic year for me so far.

Dare I say it but along with even the Lego Batman movie all these films have, to some degree, actually moved me.

 

[Micromind]

Pine better watch out before I pull up.

Pine is just not a fan of comic book movies, I doubt he would have agreed to play any superhero (DC or Marvel). The Steve Trevor part got him interested in WW, otherwise I doubt he would have agreed to be in DC (or Marvel) movie.

 

[MadVillainy]

ok...he still should change his tone and watch out

 

[Micromind]

ok...he still should change his tone and watch out

 

[MadVillainy]

Issa joke

 

[I Am The Knight]

jokesonu.

 

[DACrowe]

It's been a depressing 7 years that's for sure.

We had The Dark Knight Rises during it too, yo.

(Not that I really want to start that argument again).

 

[DACrowe]

Pine better watch out before I pull up.

Despite the headline, I don't think Pine is actually dinging Marvel specifically. Sure he namechecks Infinity War, and has a point about the title, but I think he is more broadly talking about how a lot of these superhero movies run together in being about destroying cities and nothing but fighting. And while yes, that applies to Infinity War or Age of Ultron, it also applies to X-Men: Apocalypse, Suicide Squad, Batman v Superman, and Man of Steel.

I think he is talking about the limits of many of the films within the genre itself as opposed to a "Coke vs. Pepsi" fight. And he is right about this much, Wonder Woman is refreshing in how it departs from that.

 

[kguillou]

I'm just glad Warner Bros is going back to trusting their directors again. I know it was only a rumor but i totally believe that the exec mindset for the past 5 years has been "who cares if we botch the film? People will watch it anyway and half our BO audience doesnt speak english anyway."

Hopefully those execs got fired and replaced with competent people who trust the director and know how to competently edit a film. BvS and SS (and I'll even throw in Green Lantern) never got their fair day in court because the studio intervened shat out frankenstein monsters into theaters instead of cohesive film edits. Hopefully this is the start of a new era.

 

[-Arya-]

I'm just glad Warner Bros is going back to trusting their directors again. I know it was only a rumor but i totally believe that the exec mindset for the past 5 years has been "who cares if we botch the film? People will watch it anyway and half our BO audience doesnt speak english anyway."

Hopefully those execs got fired and replaced with competent people who trust the director and know how to competently edit a film. BvS and SS (and I'll even throw in Green Lantern) never got their fair day in court because the studio intervened shat out frankenstein monsters into theaters instead of cohesive film edits. Hopefully this is the start of a new era.

I believe this trend will follow with Aquaman. I've basically written off Justice League since it's another Snyder film. I'll watch it but I'm expecting another disappointment.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm just glad Warner Bros is going back to trusting their directors again. I know it was only a rumor but i totally believe that the exec mindset for the past 5 years has been "who cares if we botch the film? People will watch it anyway and half our BO audience doesnt speak english anyway."

Hopefully those execs got fired and replaced with competent people who trust the director and know how to competently edit a film. BvS and SS (and I'll even throw in Green Lantern) never got their fair day in court because the studio intervened shat out frankenstein monsters into theaters instead of cohesive film edits. Hopefully this is the start of a new era.

I think WB always trusted their directors. The issue is, they trusted the WRONG directors.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm just glad Warner Bros is going back to trusting their directors again. I know it was only a rumor but i totally believe that the exec mindset for the past 5 years has been "who cares if we botch the film? People will watch it anyway and half our BO audience doesnt speak english anyway."

Hopefully those execs got fired and replaced with competent people who trust the director and know how to competently edit a film. BvS and SS (and I'll even throw in Green Lantern) never got their fair day in court because the studio intervened shat out frankenstein monsters into theaters instead of cohesive film edits. Hopefully this is the start of a new era.

I hate saying this, but the only movie I think they did that to really was Suicide Squad. Who knows maybe there is a good version of that movie?

But Man of Steel and BvS were very much Snyder's vision. The studio may have forced Snyder to use Batman, but the whole Frank Miller-esque blended by way of Ayn Rand "deconstructionist" take of the characters with Superman being a Debbie Downer and Batman a fascist was all Zack. They just made him cut it from 3 hours to 2.5 hours, and I don't really think the longer version is any better.

The lesson I hope they learned from BvS, besides that perhaps Zack shouldn't be making all the decisions for the DCEU, is that they don't need to rush team-ups and crossovers. Wonder Woman shows doing a standalone can be better received than not only the rest of their movies, but also much of the Marvel Studios oeuvre by critics. The trick though is for Wonder Woman to have great legs (besides, Gal's). If it can really be a crowd pleaser that lasts throughout June, and I think it can be, then it will tell studios two important things:

1) We need more women-led and women-directed blockbusters.
2) A shared universe is great, but individuality within it can be better.

Aquaman looks like it will be fairly standalone as well. And given I have liked every James Wan movie thus far save for Death Sentence, I have high hopes that it will also be quite good.

 

[kguillou]

I hate saying this, but the only movie I think they did that to really was Suicide Squad. Who knows maybe there is a good version of that movie?

But Man of Steel and BvS were very much Snyder's vision. The studio may have forced Snyder to use Batman, but the whole Frank Miller-esque blended by way of Ayn Rand "deconstructionist" take of the characters with Superman being a Debbie Downer and Batman a fascist was all Zack. They just made him cut it from 3 hours to 2.5 hours, and I don't really think the longer version is any better.

The lesson I hope they learned from BvS, besides that perhaps Zack shouldn't be making all the decisions for the DCEU, is that they don't need to rush team-ups and crossovers. Wonder Woman shows doing a standalone can be better received than not only the rest of their movies, but also much of the Marvel Studios oeuvre by critics. The trick though is for Wonder Woman to have great legs (besides, Gal's). If it can really be a crowd pleaser that lasts throughout June, and I think it can be, then it will tell studios two important things:

1) We need more women-led and women-directed blockbusters.
2) A shared universe is great, but individuality within it can be better.

Aquaman looks like it will be fairly standalone as well. And given I have liked every James Wan movie thus far save for Death Sentence, I have high hopes that it will also be quite good.

I agree (and I say this as a Zack Snyder fanboy). I think DC should just focus on making good standalone films that happen to co-exist in the same universe instead of copying the marvel build up formula too. I've always said DC's movies should be like Graphic Novels, basically standalone epics like the Nolan movies. You can still have teases to other things but leave the episodic stuff to Marvel.

 

[Mjölnir]

When you need to remove a part of the movie to demostrate a weakness, you are missing the point. The reason Ledger is in TDK, is the same reason every great thing about a movie is in it. That he makes the movie function as well as it does is the success of casting. It is not something you simply remove.

That Gal is the lead, and Pine her obvious co-star, for which the movie rarely leaves, how do you separate them from the rest of the movie? 90% of it is Gal or Pine interacting with someone.

Test this whole theory. Take any really successful movie from the last 80 years. Take out the cast and replace them. How many still works as well, how many are classics, how many resonant with the audiences? Terminator? Star Wars? Alien? Dr. Strangelove? Indiana Jones? Lethal Weapon? Die Hard? Pretty Woman? Pulp Fiction? Lord of the Rings? The Wizard of Oz? Iron Man?

Well you have Avatar. I guess we have that one.

It's just a way of saying that something elevated the movie but the filmmaker didn't manage as well with the rest of it, which is very relevant. Arguing against that is like saying if there's one great thing in a movie then the movie is automatically great.

I very clearly stated that I haven't seen WW and therefor can't talk about it, so I don't know why you ask a question about it.

You also over-exaggerate his point by starting to talk about replacing the entire cast, which isn't useful at all, but if I have to go to that extreme I'll choose your example Star Wars. Hardly a movie that's living on great acting, and the perhaps biggest pop culture hit ever had one single breakout star. But again, this is not at all the point I'm discussing.

And to talk about TDK, as you mentioned, if someone thinks that Ledger was great but the rest of the movie isn't that captivating, then that's clearly an issue for that person as Ledger doesn't have a huge amount of screen time. One could also think that Ledger did a great performance despite that the person also thinks that the character wasn't written great, which is also a legitimate opinion. Of course it might be an upsetting opinion as well, seeing how the discussion looked the last time I saw someone say he thought that here. In either case it's not even remotely comparable to the notion of changing the entire cast in a movie.

 

[DACrowe]

With Ledger though it feels like a reach since Christopher Nolan co-wrote all of Ledger's lines and directed it. And he intentionally crafted the film around the Joker, so like the shark in Jaws you see relatively very little of him, but every time he appears it has drastic impact on the narrative and constantly changes its gears.

Saying that the actor or character makes the movie is a bit silly since the movie is built around him and a variety of protagonists reacting. It is very much like saying, well if there was no shark in Jaws, you would not have the same movie. No kidding.

 

[MadVillainy]

With Ledger though it feels like a reach since Christopher Nolan co-wrote all of Ledger's lines and directed it. And he intentionally crafted the film around the Joker, so like the shark in Jaws you see relatively very little of him, but every time he appears it has drastic impact on the narrative and constantly changes its gears.

Saying that the actor or character makes the movie is a bit silly since the movie is built around him and a variety of protagonists reacting. It is very much like saying, well if there was no shark in Jaws, you would not have the same movie. No kidding.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I am not a RT is right or wrong kind of person. I don't think WW is an all time great, but I really liked it and with a stronger third act, I'd probably put it right up there. Still with what is there, I really liked it.

I had similar thoughts with Dr. Strange. In that it was well made and I liked it. But it's knowhere near the best in the genre like RT makes out. I will see WW this week and make my own mind up.

I am still a fan myself.

I am not alone!

 

[Consona]

With Ledger though it feels like a reach since Christopher Nolan co-wrote all of Ledger's lines and directed it. And he intentionally crafted the film around the Joker, so like the shark in Jaws you see relatively very little of him, but every time he appears it has drastic impact on the narrative and constantly changes its gears.

Saying that the actor or character makes the movie is a bit silly since the movie is built around him and a variety of protagonists reacting. It is very much like saying, well if there was no shark in Jaws, you would not have the same movie. No kidding.

Ledger actually directed some of his stuff in TDK himself!

 

[Consona]

I had similar thoughts with Dr. Strange. In that it was well made and I liked it. But it's knowhere near the best in the genre like RT makes out. I will see WW this week and make my own mind up.

I have to say, even though I was rather disappointed with Dr. Strange movie, [BLACKOUT]its Dormammu finale was so great! [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Flint Marko]

Superman Returns is a good movie.

 

[Consona]

Superman Returns is a good movie.

Haven't seen it yet. But I rewatched MoS yesterday so it could be a proper time to watch this one. They are quite different, aren't they. No skyscrapers leveling in SR.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Is it me, or Wondy made more money on the opening weekend than any MCU solo film? Outside Iron Man sequels.

 

[-Arya-]

Is it me, or Wondy made more money on the opening weekend than any MCU solo film?

Except for Iron Man 3, yes.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Except for Iron Man 3, yes.

I think Iron Man 2 made more too.

 

[-Arya-]

I think Iron Man 2 made more too.

You're right. Iron Man 2 had 128 million. Still very impressive that it outdid everything else in Phase 2 Marvel solos.