Contest of Marvels II Thread 3

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

REBUTTAL: DARK BEAST Vs WILDSIDE

I didn't mean to make it sound like Wildside is completely useless in the combat stakes. As you say his Weapon X background means that your average chump should stay well clear of the guy.

As for the Dark Beast Vs Beast comparison, I agree that Beast's commitment to regular training gives him an edge in strength and certain fighting skills. However I think Dark Beast is a far more deadly combatant as Beast has zero killer instinct. Dark Beast prefers to win dirty (using his sharp claws in battle unlike Beast) and never holds back. This should even out any weaknesses. I don't think I'm stretching at all by claiming that Dark Beast could at least match Beast (and therefore pummel Wildside) in a straight brawl due to his lack of morals but voters are free to decide based on what they know of the characters.

Ok, I see what you're saying. I will grant you that Dark BEast's killing ways do make him as good of a match as Beast when it comes to fighting. Althogh, Since he isn't quite as acrobatic as 616 Beast due to the training, getting through some of Doom's traps and puzzles would be even more of a challenge though.

OK Thanks for explaining. I would suggest (I can't claim to know) that he would have trouble maintaining this power when under attack and being continually struck by someone with Dark Beast's strength and ferocity. I'm also unsure over whether he can use this power when he cannot see his opponent. Please correct me if I am wrong on either of those counts.

I honestly do not know. To be honest, I could see where being struck by Beast would affect his control. As for having to see them, I'm not sure, but since it is psionicI don;t see why he would have to. Many different psionic attacks from others in the Marvel Universe have worked fine without the person in line of sight. There is, I'm sure a certain distance thoughin which he will affect them though.

Even without specific knowledge of his opponent, it is in character for Dark Beast to hide out (which should be easy in Castle Doom) assess his opponent (not that he would discover the warping until it begins) and strike in deadly fashion when he is confident of victory. He is merciless and does not pause to let his opponent recover and will gladly kill Wildside.

He has the sharper senses, and is far faster and more agile. Dark Beast will be the one who will start the conflict at a time of his choosing.

Let me put it this way, if Wildside can avoid getting hit and can sneak up on Dark Beast and start using these tricks before he has a chance to do anything I would certainly give your character a chance. I don't believe he's capable but voters might. As I said before, without his warping powers, there is no point showing up. With them he at least he has one area where he is not completely outmatched.

I agree that without the warping powers, this would be almost impossible for Wildside, but he does have them. The biggest factor is these warping powers, and how much they can screw with Dark Beast. IMO they would totally destroy him, making him think that there is no ground/ only making him see rainbows everywhere and allowing for Wildside to just gradually walk up and kill him. Now, obviously what you think will happen is greatly different t: .

He has experimented on others rather than himself in the past mainly because there has been no need to enhance himself to these great lengths as he hasn't been in a true battle to the death scenario until now.

But if he could alter himself overall this greatly, why wouldn't he have done it before now? He has done battle befoer this, including taking on Xavier himself and others. H knew that battle was coming, and I thinik he would have made himself overall more powerful if he was able to. But instead of doing that, he got destroyed and almost killed by Sugarman. There have been plenty of instances where he would have enhanced himself overall if he could, but neve has. Personnally, I don't see him starting now.

He only changed his genetics to resemble Beast and infiltrate the X-Men when it became necessary. In this scenario, if he is unaware of his opponent he can't mix and match, he will have to go for an all round enhancement approach. Not knowing how powerful his opponent is, he will have to go for the max in case he is put up against a real badass.

Personally I still don't see a big difference between not knowing how powerful your opponent is, and knowing your opponent is very powerful and they have you outnumbered. LIke befoer, if he could enhance himslef overall, then he would have done so already.

Any lab from a top university or research company (in the real world universe) will do and Dark Beast can easily disguise himself to obtain access. Lets face it, if he can convince the X-Men that he is 616 Beast, he can convince any human that he is whoever he wants to be. Failing that he can always use force. There aren't too many university professors I know who could put up much resistance.

While most labs may have the capapbilities of doing this, time is a huge factor. Beast has 24 hours to disguise himslef (or kill all the lab technicians), and then do all the research and actually create the genetic mutation. That is a very short amount of time and I doubt even he could pull that off.

Dark Beast is a genius not an average scientist. He would already know of any of the things I am discussing as he is far superior to even Beast in the field of genetics. Being able to achieve mind boggling things with genetics is a real world issue not just one limited to comics. Dark Beast will take anything we have heard about or can conceivably imagine to the most extreme lengths. Our best scientists are limited by their morals (otherwise we would already have armies of clones as our slaves) while Dark Beast does whatever he likes with his insane mind.

I've said it befoer, so I won't go inot unneccesary detail here (saves everyone a little bit of reading) but A) if he could do these uber genetic mutations, he would have already and B) he woldn't have time to make them anyway.

Also don't forget that Doom also has labs that can compete with any in the Marvel universe and Dark Beast is sure to make use of these when he finds them (although he is unlikley to have too much time on his own here)Dark Beast would have the smarts to use power inhibitors on Wildside as a precaution even if he was unaware of his warping abilities.

That's if he can even find and operate the Power Inhibitors. He could find the labs I'm sure, but like you said, he won't have much time. Also, if he does osomehow find and enable the power inhibitors to work in the lab, that would also change him. While Dark Beast is a good fighter due to his mutation, Wildside has been trained more. If both were normal humans, I believe that Wildside would have a definate advantage (we would also have the least climactic battle in COM on our hands ).

I wouldn't put it past him to have kept genetic samples such as hairs of his past superhuman acquaintances for future replication but this is a whole new murky road that I don't have time to debate right now.

Yeah, it's gonna be tough for us to debate this part without much time left. I'll just say that Doom probably would have samples, but i don't think Dark Beast would have the time to use them (plus thery're probably locked up.)

I didn't say he definitely would use robots by remote. I was just using that as an example of the unlimited and unpredictable ideas that his devious mind can come up with.

Ahhh...I gotcha.

I don't follow this logic. Superhuman agility is surely extremely useful in close range. Intelligence, quick thinking and tactical smarts are also useful even in a point blank range streetfight, never mind an interactive environment where the location can aid you greatly. Also strength is surely only useful at close range.

Edit (sorry I misread your last point): I doubt that Wildside will be able to maintain this reality warping effectively while being struck repeatedly and mercilessly with the force of Dark Beast (which is now genetically enhanced to extremes).

The thng about his reality warping affect is that once it hits Dark beast, he won't be able to attack Wildside. He won't know where anything is. Wildside will only let him see a Wildside if he chooses him to, and that willmost likely just be a hallucination. It is extremely hard to hit someone that you cannot see/smell/hear (and Wildside's power should affect those other senses too since they warping his entire reality.
Giving Dark Beast some credit, Even if his powers did work, but he could still hear and smell Wildside, Dark Beast is already at a huge disadvantage. Wildside also has superhuman agility as well (althoguh not as good as Dark Beast's) but the extra second it takes Dark Beast to realize where an attaack is coming fomr, and he is giving Wildside too much of an advantage. Also, Wildside is as much of a killer as Dark Beast is, so one good swipe form him and it will be to an extremely important part of Dark Beast. While it probably wouldn't kill him, it would definately cripple him (I'm thinking either spilling some intestines or maybe the Achilles tendon are where he would go for)

Doombots can't win the match for you on their own unless you actively use them to help you:

The way I see it, they are just another part of the castle's security measures. Security is on, and they are just stopping you fomr actually hacking in to Doom's castle.

Also 616 Beast is not the only character in the world who can hack high level computers effectively. Dark Beast is one of the Marvel Universe's leaders (alongside the likes of Sinister) in the field of genetics (considerably ahead of 616 Beast). He surely uses some of the MU's best computers everyday to break genetic structures and codes. Doom's computers will be on a similar level to those he is used to using. I wouldn't be surprised if Dark Beast has hacked the genetic databases of governments and leading research companies to steal their work but I can't back this up so it should probably be written of as speculation. In any case this is not a focal point of my debate so I'm happy to let any hacking of computers style argument rest if you are

I'l just point out 2 things.
1) using computers to create genetic stuff (while brilliant) is absolutely nothign like hacking into a computer system.
2) Hacking into the genetic database of a governement IMO is NOTHINg like hacking into Doom's computers.

Yeah even though Dark Beast will evade traps more easily and quickly with his speed, agility and intellect advantages, I'm not claiming either character will be caught as the match will be a bit of an anticlimax if that happens and we'll have nothing to talk about

True, in all likelihood, both would be caught, which would be rather funny.

I've not made any reference to Dark Beast altering himself with Wildside in mind, only altering himself knowing there is a possibility of facing a true badass, thereby forcing him to enhance every thing about himself that he can within the given time limits.

I've said my thoughts above. (I'm sure you're sick of reading them now anyway )

This is not about a character being defeated by the defences of the location as Phaed has pointed about. Wildside needs to be able to defeat him to claim a victory.

True, and defeat him Wildside can. By the power of "crazy ass warping reality halluicnating thingy" he can.

Anyway you've provoked my lazy ass into participating in this interesting debate, so thanks, I've enjoyed it very much

As always, a pleasure debating you as well. I'm glad we got to more. That way no matter who wins, the other can feel better knowing that even though they lossed, they made everyone that voted read through 30 minutes of debate. (at least that's how I always look at it.)

Winner- Wildside

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

(Remember, you must read through all of this weeks debates before voting. The debates should be the largest percentage of reason for the way you vote; but, they do not have to be the sole reason for your decision.)

 

[hippy fascist]

war machine (hard choice but rhodes has more flexibility in this fight)
nimrod (just too powerful and no debate against him)
patriot(no debates on either side but i figured powederman wasn't gonna be using him so... t: )
dark beast (close one but I think the evil $@#& could take it)

 

[kytrigger]

War Machine
Wildside
Nimrod
Bi-Beast


You know, for only having 2 1/2 debates, there was a lot of reading in this thread...t:

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Nimrod - (You debate, you get the advantage in the match....as if Nimrod didn't have a big advantage already.)

*Terrax

*Bi-Beast - (Simply put, I think Bi-Beast would turn patriot into paste. Pastriot...get it!)

*Wildside - (Wow...one hell of a debate. I could have gone either way.)

 

[wiegeabo]

Nimrod
Terrax
Wildside
Bi-Beast

 

[hippy fascist]

Results so far:

Nimrod is currently beating talisman 4-0
Terrax is currently drawn with war machine 2-2
Bi-Beast is currently beating patriot 3-1
Wildside is currently beating Dark Beast 3-1

 

[DarkHellRider]

War Machine
Wildside
Nimrod
patriot

 

[Harlekin]

Nimrod - Could've been a great match though.
Terrax - Great debate though.
Bi-Beast - Out of Patriot's league.
Wildside - I was convinced.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Terrax - I think he should take this
Nimrod - Seems he would have had plans against every type of power
Bi-Beast - easy decision when no debates are posted
Wildside - the mind altering powers should give him the edge

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Nimord
Terrax
Bi-Beast
Dark Beast

 

[Darren Daring]

Nimrod
war machine
Bi-Beast
Dark Beast

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results so far:

Nimrod is currently beating Talisman 9-0
Terrax is currently beating War Machine 5-4
Bi-Beast is currently beating Patriot 7-2
Wildside is currently beating Dark Beast 6-3

 

[Hellstormer]

Nimrod
Terrax
Patriot
Dark Beast

 

[JewishHobbit]

Nimrod
Bi-Beast
Wildside - Good debate on this one. I was originally going for Dark Beast, but my mind has been changed.
Terrax - Went back and forth, but in the end I think Terrax would take it

 

[Iceman]

War Machine - even battle based on the debates, very difficult choice.
Nimrod - nice debate. Location is in his favour and he should win quite easily.
Dark Beast - A very fun debate but I'm going to miss this character
Bi-Beast

 

[Iceman]

As always, a pleasure debating you as well. I'm glad we got to more. That way no matter who wins, the other can feel better knowing that even though they lossed, they made everyone that voted read through 30 minutes of debate. (at least that's how I always look at it.)

Yeah, I love the Dark Beast character and it's painful to lose him but going down to a good and interesting debate makes it ok

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Nimrod beat Talisman 12-0
Terrax beat War Machine 7-5
Bi-Beast beat Patriot 9-3
Wildside beat Dark Beast 7-5

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 5,

Match 21:

Omega Red (WIEGEABO) bio

vs.

Jubilee (ZOKEN) bio

Match 22:

Calypso (POWDERMAN) bio

vs.

Emma Frost (PHAEDRUS45) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 6,

Match 21:

Kylun (POWDERMAN) bio

vs.

Pyro (HIPPY FASCIST) bio

Match 22:

Will O' The Wisp (WIEGEABO) bio

vs.

Man-Thing (HELLSTORMER) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION:

Ego, the Living Planet:


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Known Superhuman Powers: The living planet Ego has been called a "bioverse." Every part of its substance, including its atmosphere, is "alive" inasmuch as it is animated and controlled by the consciousness of Ego. The exact composition of Ego is unknown, but much of the planet's surface, at least, seems to be composed of organic molecules. The planet possesses various internal features which have analogues to parts of living Earth-based organisms. For example, its interior contains tunnels which have been compared to arteries, and the center of Ego's consciousness resides in a brain-like organ deep below its surface. Ego can absorb humanoid-sized living beings into itself and "digest" them in internal areas similar to an Earth beings stomach, using its own analogues to digestive fluids. Just as an Earth organism creates one-celled antibodies to attack foreign substances in its bloodstream, Ego creates humanoid sized anti-body like beings from itself to attack intruders on or beneath its surface. In its encounters with humanoids, Ego has caused the "antibodies" to take semi humanoid form.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ego generates vast psionic energies which, at their peak, rival those of Galactus. If Ego depletes its energy below a level that it can replenish by itself, it can help renew its energy stories by tapping outside sources, like stars, or absorbing the life forces of large numbers of living beings. At full strength Ego can use its psionic energy to obliterate starships. Ego can also control its own substance psychically. Thus Ego can transform its own surface to resemble a gigantic face, to reach out into space with gigantic tendrils, or to become an idyllic world resembling the most beautiful areas of Earth. Ego can create humanoid beings with great powers out of its own surface and, it claims, command them across interstellar distances. Ego communicates with other beings telepathically.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ego has used Its great psionic powers to command the immensely powerful sidereal propulsion unit installed at its south pole by Galactus. The unit can propel Ego in and out of hyperspace at vast speeds, and apparently has virtually inexhaustible power. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Limitations: For unknown reasons, Ego is apparently unable to remove the sidereal propulsion unit embedded in its south pole.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ego's control over its own atmosphere is apparently no match for the power that the thunder god Thor can wield over it using the mystical powers of his enchanted hammer.[/FONT]

(There are lots of websites devoted to Ego. For this battle, Ego will not get involved UNLESS you do something to him to cause him pain. For example, if my character, Terrax, was in this battle, he would have tried to use the planet as a source for fighting War Machine. The problem would have been that Terrax would then be fighting War Machine AND Ego. So, take this into consideration of your character's actions.)​

 

[Zoken]

Jubilee vs. Omega Red

Okay, this will be a tough fight, but not an impossible one. first off Prep-Time: this will not be advantageous to her, though she will know of Omega Red's powers, she has no way to actually combat them. If she has not faced him in the past, It is doubtless that her relationship with Wolverine brought up the topic. in any case it can be assumed she will know about Omega Red's powers.

In actually fighting him, she will be at a disadvantage. while she would be able to blind him him and hit him with her pafs, she would still be no match for a soviet super-soldier, especially a trained assassin. unless she accesses her latent ability to detonate matter at a molecular level, she won't be able to take on Omega Red.

HOWEVER, She won't really have to fight Omega Red herself. Due to Omega Red's deathspores (which he cannot control due to losing the item needed for that) he will be inadvertantly attacking Ego from the moment he arrives on the planet. this will cause Ego to take action against him. Jubilee just has to keep her distance and convince the planet that she doesn't wish it any harm.

 

[wiegeabo]

Omega Red vs. Jubilee

Let's start with information. Jubilee should be able to find out more than enough about Omega from X computers. But that's unecessary because the two have fought before. So Jubilee will know everything about Omega, and Omega will know enough about Jubilee.


Now comes the fight. And Jubilee is at a big disadvantage because if she gets too close to Omega, or his tenticles, he'll just drain her life away.

Now, that doesn't impact Jubilee too badly because her powers can work at a distance. She can hit Omega with her blasts, which are stronger than most people realize, forcing Omega to work for his target. But Omega's body is very durable. He even has a healing factor (maybe not as good as Logan's, but still powerful). So Red should be able to fight through whatever Jubilee dishes out and still finish her off.

But that's only if she sees Omega. Red is an expert fighter and tactician. He's trained in military and covert operations. So if he doesn't want to be seen, Jubilee won't see him until it's too late. Her only hope is to get into an open area where she can see him coming, and even then Omega still has her number.


Omega Red wins

 

[Hellstormer]

Will O' The Wisp (WIEGEABO) bio

vs.

Man-Thing (HELLSTORMER) bio

This is a fairly balnced battle except for the fact that Man-Thing cannot be harmed. Let's face it no matter how much WoW beats on him he'll just reform himself and WoW will start to become angry. This will cause Man-Thing's strengt5h to increase along with a large amont of his highly corrosive acid that will brun right through WoW. I can't really make a strong opening because this is one-sided with the regen factor.

Winner=Man-Thing

 

[wiegeabo]

Will O' The Wisp vs. Man-Thing

Tough battle. Man-Thing wouldn't look for information on Wisp. Wisp would probably only get basic information on Man-Thing if he was lucky.

In battle, Wisp's powers let him become intangible and immune to Man-Thing's attacks. He could also become rock hard and give Man-Thing a good pounding. But there are a couple of problems with that. First, Man-Thing is hard to defeat physically since he's not quite solid and can repair from a great deal of damage. And as Wisp gets angry, Man-Thing will react with his sulfuric acid. Wisp will be lucky if he only looses an arm trying to punch Man-Thing in this state.

But, Man-Thing's greatest weapon, his acid, is also his greatest disadvantage. Because once he starts emitting his acid, it will begin eating into Ego. And once Ego is attacked, he'll start attacking Man-Thing. Wisp can just sit back, intangible, and let Ego beat on Man-Thing until there's nothing left of him.


Will O' The Wisp wins