The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Dane Dehaan IS Harry Osborn

[spider-neil]

Harry Osborne as Venom is an improvement on the character and source material. Truth.

ASM already an an advantage over SM3 (other than not being SM3) with regards the black suit, in that the 'cancer suit' dynamic is far more interesting (to me) then the alien entity. Something that is meant to be the biggest scientific break through ever turns into Spidey's biggest challenge.

Also with Osbourne being sick that is the perfect reason for Oscorp to be working on the cancer suit. I hate the one note Venom but I would be pretty excited to see the cancer suit storyline on the big screen.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

If they return to "Peter was altered as a young man" which they hinted at (then chopped out of the film), it'd be a nice parallel to see Norman willing to test on Harry to save himself.

Regardless, the symbiote is at Oscorp. No question about that I think.

Do we see the symbiote attach to Peter first? I just don't think that story has much meat on the bone, nothing that we haven't said about it in film already. Hard to find a new wrinkle there.

 

[spider-neil]

If they return to "Peter was altered as a young man" which they hinted at (then chopped out of the film), it'd be a nice parallel to see Norman willing to test on Harry to save himself.

Regardless, the symbiote is at Oscorp. No question about that I think.

Do we see the symbiote attach to Peter first? I just don't think that story has much meat on the bone, nothing that we haven't said about it in film already. Hard to find a new wrinkle there.

Just have Peter touch the suit for second and totally do away with 'evil Peter' which is wrote and cliché.

 

[GuestStar2004]

id like to see peter wear the blacksuit/symbiot because i think it would be handled better then raimi did it and also if they do that storyline after gwens death it shows why the suit can push him to do bad things.

 

[Venom'sDad]

the symbiote is at Oscorp. No question about that I think.

 

[GuestStar2004]

i think if we get to a 4th film which i hope we do it we will open up a new trilogy with a different story arc

i can see the parents stuff maybe lasting 3 films

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Would it save you an emoticon if I'd said "I don't think there's any question about that" which is a more common phrase? Same thing.

Anyway, I think Peter with the black suit is far more interesting than the character of Venom, but with me that's not a high bar.

I don't think you devote a significant chunk of time to it, but it can be used to propel a stronger narrative.

On its own though, yeah. Bad-Spidey is a gimmick.

 

[fireflyhatter]

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Spoiler

Pretty sure that's not Venom's drawer. That's a morgue locker for bodies. They even have the same handles. While it would be interesting, I am sorely convinced that Harry will not be becoming Venom in this or any film for the foreseeable future. I'm thinking the 14 on the locker and #happybirthday refer to the Osborns in some other way, like maybe Norman faked his death or maybe even Harry's mother died. The photo Marc tweeted a day or two later was of an incinerator, so maybe there was a cremation going on?

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Nobody would be happier than me to see zero Venom in this franchise but it's all about the Benjamins. Venom = Spin-off.

 

[spider-neil]

Have Peter put on the suit in ASM 4 where Mysterio is copying Spidey's red and blues so Spidey wears the black suit to differentiate himself to the public. Movie 5; Venom. More than enough times would have passed for the general audience to have forgotten SM3. Film 4 and 5 back to back.

 

[GuestStar2004]

it probably is a morgue, im guessin it will be in a flashback with uncle ben identifyin the bodies.

Its not just that picture thats made people wonder though its also that he has been puttin on the pounds for this role

 

[SpiderMan'sBoot]

I think he just needs to look a little older, more teen like. I thought in Chronicle he looked considerably younger, physique wise too than he is.

That's all I'm thinking right now.

 

[Shikamaru]

ASM already an an advantage over SM3 (other than not being SM3) with regards the black suit, in that the 'cancer suit' dynamic is far more interesting (to me) then the alien entity. Something that is meant to be the biggest scientific break through ever turns into Spidey's biggest challenge.

Also with Osbourne being sick that is the perfect reason for Oscorp to be working on the cancer suit. I hate the one note Venom but I would be pretty excited to see the cancer suit storyline on the big screen.

What do you think of the idea that Oscorp/NASA found the symbiote in space long ago and have been studying it for a while because they believe it can cure diseases? That way, you still get the symbiote that an alien (which makes more sense and is more realistic IMO) but you can still do the Ultimate storyline with Richard Parker working on it and trying to make it into a scientific break.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

I love this idea that freaking aliens are more realistic than scientists engineering a symbiote that attaches itself to your cells in order to fortify them against disease.

It's just hilarious. Am I on the wrong Earth, here?

"Oh, yeah, you know what would be more believable than scientists doing crazy science stuff? Frickin' Aliens."

 

[Shikamaru]

I personally find it more realistic that there is a parasitic organism in the universe that needs to bond with another organism in order to survive. That's all science. There are symbiotic organisms here on earth too that do that to other animals. There also exist symbiotic organisms that bond with other organisms and then hurt the organism they bonded with just like how the symbiote affects the host in a negative way. This would also provide a logical explanation to why the symbiote is evil and feeds on hatred and negative emotions.

Yet some piece of black goo created in a science lab out of Richard Parker's blood that somehow gains a mind of its own, is evil, and feeds on hatred and negative emotions is somehow more realistic and makes more sense than the alternative. Bendis reduced the symbiote to a B-monster living goo straight from a 1950's movie IMO.


Bendis also completely ruined the whole meaning behind the black suited Spider-Man. Notice how out of all the hosts the symbiote had, Peter is the only one to not turn into a monster with a mouth and teeth like all the hosts that became Venom. This was to show that Peter was a good man at heart and did not let the symbiote consume him, while the other hosts like Eddie let their hatred get ahead of them and let the symbiote feed on that. Spidey just gaining a black suit as opposed to turning into Venom was a way of showing how heroic Spider-Man is. Notice how even a lot of other Marvel superheroes turn into something similar to Venom when they get possessed by a symbiote.

Then Bendis comes along with the Ultimate Symbiote. And what is Bendis' explanation for why Peter didn't turn into a Venom-like monster when bonded with the symbiote while Eddie and everyone else that wore the symbiote did?

It was all genetics. The symbiote just manifested into a black version of Spider-Man's suit because Peter shares the same blood as his dad and the symbiote was made from his dad's blood.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Waitwaitwait:

Your first argument is that goopy space-creatures are more believable than modifying an existing earthbound symbiote and/or creating one synthetically in lab.

Your second argument is that someone ruined the symbiote narrative because they made Peter's initial control/later resistance of it genetic instead of because his heart was just so goshdarned sunshiney.

 

[Shikamaru]

Waitwaitwait:

Your first argument is that goopy space-creatures are more believable than modifying an existing earthbound symbiote and/or creating one synthetically in lab.

Evil goopy space-creatures are more believable than an evil piece of goo created in a lab that gains a mind of its own and feeds on hatred. Plus, how exactly do you go from a symbiote suit engineered to cure diseases to one that feeds off hatred and negative emotions?

Your second argument is that someone ruined the symbiote narrative because they made Peter's initial control/later resistance of it genetic instead of because his heart was just so goshdarned sunshiney.

It didn't ruin the symbiote. It ruined the image of Spidey wearing the symbiote. At least in the Ultimate universe.

And it has nothing to do with Peter's heart being so sunshiny. It all has to do with emotions. Peter didn't let the symbiote feed on his hatred and negative emotions. The symbiote is bonded to not just the host's body but the host's brain. It is similar to how hatred and other negative emotions lead to stress which leads to many negative effects on the body overall and the way to avoid that is by learning to cope with those emotions and not letting them take too much control of you. It's not that far of an out there concept.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Look, there are plenty of drugs that have inadvertent mood-altering side effects. The symbiote isn't evil inherently. It attaches itself to you and causes increased paranoia, aggression, and a level of schizophrenia.

Sounds like any number of man-made drugs.

So essentially your premise remains: It's more believable that an alien is altering someone's mood than a synthetic creation.

 

[Creator]

NO VENOM.

If there's a 4th movie, then I can see them bringing in the symbiote.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

And Peter most certainly did let the symbiote feed on his negative emotions, but once it progressed, he identified the problem and rid himself of it because he is a good person.

Conversely, Eddie Brock was already in a seriously negative emotional place when the symbiote attached to him. The symbiote gave him what he wanted: Power, strength, importance, and the means to destroy Spider-Man. He didn't fight against it because he was weak and morally dark already.

It's been a while since I've read the Ultimate comics, but it did seem to me that there was still a level of moral authority Peter was able to access to stave off the suit regardless. So that component isn't totally lost, regardless of the genetic info.

 

[Shikamaru]

Look, there are plenty of drugs that have inadvertent mood-altering side effects. The symbiote isn't evil inherently. It attaches itself to you and causes increased paranoia, aggression, and a level of schizophrenia.

Sounds like any number of man-made drugs.

So essentially your premise remains: It's more believable that an alien is altering someone's mood than a synthetic creation.

Drugs don't feed on hatred though, which is what the symbiote does. I find it a lot more believable for an alien parasitic organism having a mind of its own and feeding off hatred than a man-made drug from a science lab, as you just described it as, that gains a mind of its own and does those things.

But then again, maybe I just have a crazy imagination .

And Peter most certainly did let the symbiote feed on his negative emotions, but once it progressed, he identified the problem and rid himself of it because he is a good person.

He did. But he identified the problem just in time. Guess what would've happened if he hadn't.

Conversely, Eddie Brock was already in a seriously negative emotional place when the symbiote attached to him. The symbiote gave him what he wanted: Power, strength, importance, and the means to destroy Spider-Man. He didn't fight against it because he was weak and morally dark already.

Exactly. And that's what separates Spidey from the rest. I find that more interesting than just the reason being genetics. That's just my opinion.

It's been a while since I've read the Ultimate comics, but it did seem to me that there was still a level of moral authority Peter was able to access to stave off the suit regardless. So that component isn't totally lost, regardless of the genetic info.

I personally never got that vibe since that was the only explanation we got and the fact that Peter only wore the suit for like an hour before he actually turned into Venom didn't help either.

 

[SpideyFan866]

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Spoiler

Pretty sure that's not Venom's drawer. That's a morgue locker for bodies. They even have the same handles. While it would be interesting, I am sorely convinced that Harry will not be becoming Venom in this or any film for the foreseeable future. I'm thinking the 14 on the locker and #happybirthday refer to the Osborns in some other way, like maybe Norman faked his death or maybe even Harry's mother died. The photo Marc tweeted a day or two later was of an incinerator, so maybe there was a cremation going on?

Its not.

This pic confirmed that was a morgue locker.

 

[Creator]

What morgue locker, is this from the Venom in Ultimate comics and I'd like to see the picture of from the comics. Never read the morgue story what's it about?

 

[Venom'sDad]

NO VENOM.

If there's a 4th movie, then I can see them bringing in the symbiote.

There is a reason why Rhino is in this film.....

 

[Gianakin_]

My 2 cents, DeHaan is a great choie for Harry, and I finally hope we get Harry/Hobgoblin.